Benefits Street

[opel80uk]

Compulsory injected contraceptives for long term benefits claimants.

Want kids? Get a job.

Want kids? Don't be disabled.
Want kids? Don't lose your job.
Want kids? Don't be poor.
Want a sensible post on this topic? Don't ask wasabi.

[Praxis]

It is funny when you boil it all down.... People telling people dont be poor. In an economy where it is hard to get a job when you are poor. I know alot of people that cant get a job that can sustain a stable living environment without the help of friends family and government. Not just money help. Go to school and get a better job. That is a fee. So on top of not having money or employment you want me to spend to be better.

Everyone wants to be better. Not everyone can.. Dont do drugs... U go on heroin and tell me it is easy to stop. Dont steal. Tell me that is easy if you feel it is the only way. If killing someone to defend your life is self defence then stealing food and cloths that are overpriced is.......? People who claim to be self made are all full of it. Started somewhere. Garage companies.... kids cant live on the streets if no one teaches them companies dont start if someone doesnt give them a shot at it. Point is everyone at least has a start point. Anyone who does well in life gets there from somewhere and sometimes it takes time.
I watched a video of a guy in toronto who was homeless. He cant get a job cuz the market is flooded and he is old. Has no family. He stood on the street saying dont look down on me while crying and saying he has a soul and is a person 2. Talking about how how a fella dropped something and when he went to say excuse me sir the guy glanced back quickly and said I dont have any money for you, You ******* Bum why cant you get a job and quit bothering hard working ppl like me. Off second glance took his phone and left ashamed. These aren't exact quotes but it is close enough and I think you all get the point. Walk a mile in a mans one shoe with no sole left and see how it feels before you judge what they do. You can do bad things and want to be better but no know how or have anyone willing to help.

Point is as bad as any one of us has had it there is no way for us to understand. Speculate yes but really understand no. How would you feel if you were qualified to do something but not hired on how you were dressed because you couldn't afford better cloths. Or having to use food stamps while everyone looked at you with pity. It is always nice to be nice but it doesn't mean ppl are treating you like a person. So stories about helping the less fortunate not needed. Wanted to just point out being polite is not the same as being helpful.

Also.... when have we started listening to what it says on television haha. Those guys lie the most. Sure some of it is true. But usually not all of it and yes I consider omission lying.

I might also say it is thanks to being on my seasonal ei layoff that I found this site with my spare time. I am very happy for that. Always nice to see that there are more ppl like me out there haha.
Cant take a step without a foothold. Sry for the small novel haha.

[herulach]

A little harsh...

Taken from the motability website...



http://www.motability.co.uk/about-us/who-we-are/

The fact that its a charity has no bearing on it. Adapted MPV to fit your wheelchair in? Crack on. One of those pimp roof rack dispenser things? Awesome. Got a gammy knee and need a car to pootle down the shops? Cool. 99 quid for an mx5? You're having a joke.

Benefits should allow people a reasonable standard of living, I.e eat reasonably well, get about in a modest car heat and maintain an appropriately sized home. It shouldn't be sufficient to fund cars more expensive than most working people can afford, equip kids in designer trainers etc. Houses should have to be maintained in reasonable nick as well.

[TheAnimus]

you'll get a new free ex-gratis brand new Audi sports car.

You have to make a downpayment of about a grand.

This is assuming you qualify for the top level TLA mobility support, which someone who is undergoing / waiting for a hip replacement did used to in 2006 when you live in Cornwall. Granted they bought a more piratical car, but they did qualify.

I am not against helping people with their travel, just there are limits to it. However I'm also vehemently in favour of making the driving test a lot, lot harder. Hazard perception and the like would be heavily tightened, you would be required to pass a basic first aiders course, would include lots of human performance questions that are currently missing. Not to mention the mandatory re-testing. Given the cost of driving now adays, adding on even as little as £150 in testing to a license is a drop in the ocean. I dislike the fact that they push cars rather than public transport too. Many of the claimants would already be eligible for free unlimited travel passes anyway.

[peterb]

The fact that its a charity has no bearing on it. Adapted MPV to fit your wheelchair in? Crack on. One of those pimp roof rack dispenser things? Awesome. Got a gammy knee and need a car to pootle down the shops? Cool. 99 quid for an mx5? You're having a joke.

Benefits should allow people a reasonable standard of living, I.e eat reasonably well, get about in a modest car heat and maintain an appropriately sized home. It shouldn't be sufficient to fund cars more expensive than most working people can afford, equip kids in designer trainers etc. Houses should have to be maintained in reasonable nick as well.

It has everything to do with it.

The DLA is a fixed amount for those that qualify - the recipient can top that up out of their own funds over the period of the lease - as they would have to with the Audi. The fact that notability is a charity means that it is not for profit, so leasing costs are held down, and they can raise funds for those that do have impaired mobility. It must be hard enough having impaired mobility as it is, so what is the problem with someone topping up their DLA from their own funds, perhaps using the DLA for the additional conversion costs? I doubt any of the recipients of DLA chose to have their mobility problems.

You have to make a downpayment of about a grand.

This is assuming you qualify for the top level TLA mobility support, which someone who is undergoing / waiting for a hip replacement did used to in 2006 when you live in Cornwall. Granted they bought a more piratical car, but they did qualify.

I am not against helping people with their travel, just there are limits to it. However I'm also vehemently in favour of making the driving test a lot, lot harder. Hazard perception and the like would be heavily tightened, you would be required to pass a basic first aiders course, would include lots of human performance questions that are currently missing. Not to mention the mandatory re-testing. Given the cost of driving now adays, adding on even as little as £150 in testing to a license is a drop in the ocean. I dislike the fact that they push cars rather than public transport too. Many of the claimants would already be eligible for free unlimited travel passes anyway.

And when did you last try travelling on public transport outside London - or any major city? And if you have impaired mobility carrying a bag of groceries is going to be difficult on a bus. The point about mobility allowance is that it is giving those people a degree of independence similar (as far as possible) to their able bodied counterparts.

[TheAnimus]

So you're effectively saying if you're too disabled to work you (and your partner, who may well be working) aren't allowed to have kids? Nice. Godwin's law in three... two... one...

Actually what is wrong with saying those who do not have the means to support them, should not have children? Should society be obligated to provide everyone with the ability to procreate to only biologically limitations, regardless of their ability to support.

Hypothetically if you had a situation where to be able to conceive you needed to be able to post a bond? It wouldn't be that much different for (even highly skilled) migration from non-EU areas. A good friend of mine had to prove he had £35k of liquid assets, before they would let his degree toting US wife in. That's very unfair, and ultimately he scammed it by borrowing the money.

[Praxis]

The fact that its a charity has no bearing on it. Adapted MPV to fit your wheelchair in? Crack on. One of those pimp roof rack dispenser things? Awesome. Got a gammy knee and need a car to pootle down the shops? Cool. 99 quid for an mx5? You're having a joke.

Benefits should allow people a reasonable standard of living, I.e eat reasonably well, get about in a modest car heat and maintain an appropriately sized home. It shouldn't be sufficient to fund cars more expensive than most working people can afford, equip kids in designer trainers etc. Houses should have to be maintained in reasonable nick as well.

The site says you need to be disabled and have benifits that will be coming in for the next 12 months. To get benifits you need a doctor to say you are disabled with proof of your disability. They dont give these to ppl with bum knees. if you have a good knee you can still move with crutches and are considered injured and not disabled.

Also, these vehicals are leased. You dont own them. Leased vehicals are cheaper just for that reason. To end things you cant get any car you want. Some fancy cars or unorthodox trucks arent available and I highly doubt people that cant walk are going to opt for lift kits... When the doc clears ya you dont get it anymore. If he doesnt clear ya you never walk again. I dont think this is such a bad thing.

[opel80uk]

Actually what is wrong with saying those who do not have the means to support them, should not have children? Should society be obligated to provide everyone with the ability to procreate to only biologically limitations, regardless of their ability to support.

Hypothetically if you had a situation where to be able to conceive you needed to be able to post a bond? It wouldn't be that much different for (even highly skilled) migration from non-EU areas. A good friend of mine had to prove he had £35k of liquid assets, before they would let his degree toting US wife in. That's very unfair, and ultimately he scammed it by borrowing the money.

So, what happens if you can't afford the bond, but then get pregnant?

[santa claus]

So, what happens if you can't afford the bond, but then get pregnant?

You will be shot of course for not dutifully attending for your compulsory contraceptive injections .

[TheAnimus]

And when did you last try travelling on public transport outside London - or any major city? And if you have impaired mobility carrying a bag of groceries is going to be difficult on a bus. The point about mobility allowance is that it is giving those people a degree of independence similar (as far as possible) to their able bodied counterparts.

4 weeks ago, it's not that bad, so long as you aren't trying to keep to a strict schedule.

But you are making my point into an extreme. I object to there been so much funding you can buy a 'status' brand. Surely that is a sign funding should be toned down?

[TheAnimus]

So, what happens if you can't afford the bond, but then get pregnant?

Erm, I said hypothetically, because it was obviously a device relating to the comment about marriage and migration. If someone marries someone else. Both hold top rate qualifications (think top 5 uni, first class). Why do we subject them to such stupidity?

Yet have kids and we will give you money regardless of how reckless your planning is. Not remotely suggesting we should have barstardisation level of stigma, but maybe the pendulum is too far the other way. In my book having children without the means to support them is evil.

[kalniel]

Actually what is wrong with saying those who do not have the means to support them, should not have children?

Not a question of support. But if one parent is not able to work, why should the other partner be condemned never to have children, even if they could afford it?

The suggestion was compulsory contraception for those on long term benefits. So say I marry a disabled person on long term benefits, I now can't have children with her even if we could afford children, simply because she is disabled? That is wrong on so many levels.

[peterb]

4 weeks ago, it's not that bad, so long as you aren't trying to keep to a strict schedule.

But you are making my point into an extreme. I object to there been so much funding you can buy a 'status' brand. Surely that is a sign funding should be toned down?

Not when the user has to top up the benefit to get what you perceive to be a status brand (and the bottom of the range model at that). And for taking your point to an extreme - you are doing that yourself with some of your comments in this thread. Are you going to be advocating eugenics next? Or the compulsory taking into care of children who are born to those claiming benefits?

[wasabi]

Are you going to be advocating eugenics next? Or the compulsory taking into care of children who are born to those claiming benefits?

Straw men are popular in here, aren't they?

[csgohan4]

Some good constructive comments here.

To those who are cynical about limiting Child Benefit to a limited number of children, well it is state funded, it should be a deterrant to those who are thinking of 'playing' the system.

I agree that someone said whether it will be limited or not, bad parents will be bad parents and you shouldn't punish the child as well.

Then I propose that if you want to take child Benefit you should attend a compulsory course for managing money, family planning and parenting.

Vouchers/food stamps should be individualised, i.e only can be used with approved ID for that person e.g passport, driving license.

This is another fascinating thread, but ultimately it is turning into a Upper class vs lower class debate. Lets keep it civil

Just a short note on DLA, the system can be played. Patients can feign a long standing back problem, dodgey knees preventing work.

The doctors won't be able to confront them as they can't experience the pain the patient is in and, if they are smart they will wiki it and they will replicate all the pain in the right tests.

They will complain to their line manager if they are not happy and make something up about their poor treatment and patronising way, Doctor will get reprimanded and lose their job perhaps as they are privately run by ATOS.

[kalniel]

Then I propose that if you want to take child Benefit you should attend a compulsory course for managing money, family planning and parenting.

Isn't that time that could be better spent working (or looking for work)? Such things should be part of education for all of us long before you are thinking of having children.