Almost There! Hexus EU Referendum Straw Poll #2

[The Hand]

A more in depth piece:

[wazzickle]

All this talk about 'elites' is utterly hilarious, as if this were purely a working class vs moneyfied upper class battle. Pretty sure the word was tossed into the debate extremely cynically by Michael Gove and Boris Johnson to capitalize on the disillusionment of the working class about the current state of politics. Nice kakashi.

[TooNice]

..and some people bought it. Again, in another forum I remember someone saying that he voted for Brexit because he was working class. Didn't really elaborate further, so the first thing that came to mind based on that Brexit propaganda video is that people aren't happy that MEPs get to work in a nice office and are well paid. But even assuming that there were other, better reasons, I can't help but think that it's the working class that is going to feel any economic downturn the most. *Shrug*

[Corky34]

What's funny and not in a good way is that quantitative easing, a measure of last resort, has been shown to disproportionally benefit the 'elites' IIRC i think it's something like 75% of the money pumped into the economy through QE ends up in the pockets of people in the top percentile of incomes, basically that £250bn the BofE used to prevent capital flight on Friday is going to make the rich richer and the poor poorer.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

And, geez. In relation to the other link, it is worse than I thought. I need to make a trip back to the UK later this summer, but if that's the atmosphere, I'll be out as soon as I can (Wonder how things are in Scotland)

Just wow:

http://www.lbc.co.uk/im-so-scared-no...n-tears-132971

Karen moved to Britain from Germany in the 1970s but since Thursday's vote, she's become terrified as she faced a series of xenophobic attacks.

James was joined in studio by Simon Woolley from Operation Black Vote as they discussed the reported rise in race hate crimes since the the Brexit vote.

WATCH: James Attacks The Sun's Rhetoric Over Brexit

A heartbreaking call from Karen stopped both men in their tracks as you can see above.

She was in tears from her opening line as she admitted: "I'm so scared now."

From having dog excrement thrown at her door to friends telling her they don't want to see her again, Karen gave a harrowing account of how she now feels unwelcome in the country where she made her home.

"I haven't been out of the house for three days," she sobbed. "My neighbours told me they don't want me living in this road.

"My friend's grandson got beaten up because he had a foreign grandmother.

"I'm so scared, I don't know what's going to happen next."

James tried to reassure her: "You're going to be alright Karen. When people hear stories like yours, they will realise that they have to stand up and be counted."

Simon joined in too, in a bid to put Karen at ease, telling her that her stories broke his heart.

"50 years we've fought for race equality and you have on your programme in 2016, a good woman desperate, in tears because she fears for going out her front door for no other reason than being German."

James then tried to leave Karen with some words to give her strength:

"We're talking about approximately 10-15% of the population. Because they're right in your face, it feels like there are loads more of them than there actually are.

"You might be physically alone, but you are not on your own spiritually, emotionally or politically.

"The huge majority of people in this country, however they voted on Thursday, are with you.

"They are your compatriots and they are your true neighbours."

[TooNice]

That's awful. And the thing is, it doesn't take a lot of people to intimidate or make someone's live living hell. What's even more crazy, is that those are neighbours. Did they really believe that a vote to Leave mean every immigrants should be leaving the country? :/
I hope that those people get the book thrown at them.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

That's awful. And the thing is, it doesn't take a lot of people to intimidate or make someone's live living hell. What's even more crazy, is that those are neighbours. Did they really believe that a vote to Leave mean every immigrants should be leaving the country? :/
I hope that those people get the book thrown at them.

This one happened in Manchester and has been confirmed by the police:

https://twitter.com/Channel4News/sta...61311358955521

[TooNice]

I wonder if those people think that the vote validates their xenophobic/racists view. Of course, it's probably the kind of people who'll pick on something else even if there are no more foreigners to complain about. Kinda going like you said it might eh :/ The leave camp was always going to attract those groups due to their border control narratives, but I didn't want to believe they'd be so emboldened to attack people who are already here.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I wonder if those people think that the vote validates their xenophobic/racists view. Of course, it's probably the kind of people who'll pick on something else even if there are no more foreigners to complain about. Kinda going like you said it might eh :/

Not all of the 51.9% who voted Leave are racists.
But all racists think 51.9% support them now.

I wonder how long before Johnson and Gove comment on it - would be nice if they called the racists out.

[scaryjim]

This one happened in Manchester and has been confirmed by the police: ...

Sadly not the first incident of racial abuse filmed on a tram in Greater Manchester. It's easy to forget, if you come to Manchester and just look at the city centre, that the region as a whole has been marred by racism and violence for a long time. Anyone remember the Oldham riots aboiut 15 years aho? Tram lines go right through Oldham town centre. There's a lot of ill feeling in the region still.

[wazzickle]

We also had vaguely race-related riots in London only 4 years ago. Manchester remains one of the most multicultural cities in the UK. Far less racist than, say, Edinburgh or Newcastle. (please don't ask for a source as I don't have one)

[TooNice]

Hmm, Edinburgh never struck me as a racist city. Generally I'd say that Scotland has less minorities than the bigger cities in England, but I'd attribute it more to the fact that for many foreigners UK = England. Or UK = London. Maybe less for the Europeans (not sure), more so in the Far East.

[wazzickle]

Struck, I think? I like the idea of stroke being the past participle though

[The Hand]

It might not be over yet. There is talk that Article 50 might not be triggered at all, even if it seems unlikely at the moment. There is also talk there will be a general election and possibly a second referendum (although what it will be in it precisely about is anyone's guess). There could be new deal offered as well. It may be speculative, but a possibility.

The FT's Gideon Rachman is thinking along these lines too here:

https://next.ft.com/content/8f2aca88...c-36b487ebd80a

But why should Europe grant Britain any such a concession on free movement? Because, despite all the current irritations, the British are valuable members of the EU. The UK is a big contributor to the budget and it is a serious military and diplomatic power.

The EU is a Geo-political project as well as a political-economic one, so keeping the UK in might be worth the price of a new deal from the EU's point of view.

[wazzickle]

I would happily bet that article 50 will not be invoked by end 2017. There are a billion reasons why it could not happen, and the only reason why it could happen is because a very slight majority of those who voted, voted to leave. Only 34% of the electorate voted to leave. That should not - will probably not - be the basis on which to break up this union.

[The Hand]

I would happily bet that article 50 will not be invoked by end 2017. There are a billion reasons why it could not happen, and the only reason why it could happen is because a very slight majority of those who voted, voted to leave. Only 34% of the electorate voted to leave. That should not - will probably not - be the basis on which to break up this union.

Article 50 is hell of a bargaining chip or trump card! I doubt any future Tory leader would throw that away without any attempt to use it, even those on the Leave side. The EU elite knows that if the UK does trigger Article 50, then it could a have a very damaging effect on the whole EU project if not finish it completely.