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Thread: Hybrid/Electric Vehicles & Gibraltar Legislation

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    Hybrid/Electric Vehicles & Gibraltar Legislation

    So the Gibraltar government presented its budget today and during the presentation the Chief Minister, Fabian Picardo, dropped this nugget, as reported by the Gibraltar Chronicle:

    "Vehicle registrations for private vehicles powered solely by internal combustion engines will be prohibited by July 1, 2030. "In other words, as from that date, every vehicle registered in Gibraltar after that date will have to be at least a hybrid," @FabianPicardo says."

    My first reaction to that was a rather cynical one. "How can they just mandate that everyone has to ditch their petrol engines? That hardly seems right, if legal." ""hat happens to all existing vehicles? Do we just drive them into the sea?" "Is this just an opportunity for a spike in car sales? Or perhaps an opportunity to make money off car charging services?"

    I'm all for a cleaner environment and Gibraltar needs far, far fewer cars on its roads, but during my initial reaction the thought of a straight cap on the number of cars allowed in Gib, perhaps with a long term parking solution for additional vehicles, would be far preferable than this. Not to mention the fact that the new buses bought by this government only recently are diesel, and could use filters on them. "Sort your own choices out first - not to mention clamping down on the ships in the bay and the fumes those things pump out on a near constant basis!"

    Then my mind turned to electric vehicles. I've never owned one nor looked into them much, but I recall there was some debate about the ultimate benefit of the technology since the energy still has to be produced somewhere, and Gibraltar doesn't have any real renewable energy sources. They're just about to commission a new LNG power station, but not sure where the fuel will come from. Fewer fumes in Gibraltar will be a nice thing. One of my main concerns about living here is the air-quality and effect on my young children growing up.

    So, help me out here Hexus. What are your thoughts? Does this sound like a good thing, ill-thought through thing, or just overall horrible plan?
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    Re: Hybrid/Electric Vehicles & Gibraltar Legislation

    Well, they are saying registrations, so I guess that means new registrations, so existing vehicles will still be allowed.

    They are (from your quote) allowing hybrids.

    My concern is how these vehicles will be re-charged. Its been a long time since I visited Gibraltar - last time I recall the power station was diesel generator powered so I don't know what the position is with regard to renewables. The old water catchement areas would be ideal for a field of solar cells (if they haven't been already) but that is a limited area and only of use during daylight, unless you have some sort of storage system. Wind power is another possibility, although the Bay of Gibraltar may be a no-no because of the airport flight approach and disputed territory with Spain. The western side might be better for that, or the top ridge - but a bit of an eyesore.

    There also needs to be a charging infrastructure. Employees could provide charge points so cars could be charged during the day while people are at work - using solar energy. I guess many people commute to Spain to work, so they may be able to charge there.

    So while in general its a good thing (especially given the small size of Gibraltar and the low speed limit), I hope it has been thought through as a policy, not just a headline grabbing aspiration.
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    Re: Hybrid/Electric Vehicles & Gibraltar Legislation

    I think it is an inevitable thing.

    Note that these so called bans all seem to be for new not existing cars, and mild hybrids seem to pass the bar not just full electric only vehicles.

    I was surprised at how long it took for turbocharged fossil fuel vehicles to become standard, but they are. Hybrid I think is going the same way, so I think the legislation is lagging what is happening anyway.

    If I had a plugin hybrid with a 30 mile range, it would struggle to get me to work and back but should make it most days. On top of that, I currently have 140bhp from the 1.4l petrol engine, if I had 100bhp of electric power on top of that then it would be rather fun to drive rather than kind of OK should I want to get playful. Given a lot of the tech that goes into a modern stop-start engined car, it seems silly to me to not go the last step and actually make it at least a basic hybrid.

    Edit: But even with modern engine technology, car engines are pitiful in terms of efficiency. Converting fuel into energy in a stationary building is a much easier task that gets better results and makes it easier to keep emissions in check.

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    Re: Hybrid/Electric Vehicles & Gibraltar Legislation

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    I think it is an inevitable thing.

    Note that these so called bans all seem to be for new not existing cars, and mild hybrids seem to pass the bar not just full electric only vehicles.

    I was surprised at how long it took for turbocharged fossil fuel vehicles to become standard, but they are. Hybrid I think is going the same way, so I think the legislation is lagging what is happening anyway.

    If I had a plugin hybrid with a 30 mile range, it would struggle to get me to work and back but should make it most days. On top of that, I currently have 140bhp from the 1.4l petrol engine, if I had 100bhp of electric power on top of that then it would be rather fun to drive rather than kind of OK should I want to get playful. Given a lot of the tech that goes into a modern stop-start engined car, it seems silly to me to not go the last step and actually make it at least a basic hybrid.

    Edit: But even with modern engine technology, car engines are pitiful in terms of efficiency. Converting fuel into energy in a stationary building is a much easier task that gets better results and makes it easier to keep emissions in check.
    A 30 mile pure-electric range would probably work pretty well in Gibraltar. Although the number of plug-in hybrids which can operate usefully as all-electric rather than blended mode is low.

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    Re: Hybrid/Electric Vehicles & Gibraltar Legislation

    Thanks guys. Good point on the registrations Peter. Didn't spot that. I'll put it down to a busy Monday....

    In terms off Gibraltar energy, solar panels haven't been put to use much here. The catchments seem to be just left to nature. It's possible they're earmarked for development at some point.

    They have installed a trial wave energy device but during the summer there isn't much wave power to capture.

    Power has been an issue and the solution being put in place is a brand-spanking-new LNG station that should be coming online very soon. No idea on the details of how much it can put out.

    For charging points, a newly built multi-storey car park has a number of bays with charging points built in. Not sure if there are any other charging stations around town.

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    Re: Hybrid/Electric Vehicles & Gibraltar Legislation

    Quote Originally Posted by directhex View Post
    A 30 mile pure-electric range would probably work pretty well in Gibraltar. Although the number of plug-in hybrids which can operate usefully as all-electric rather than blended mode is low.
    I know someone who drives an Outlander which I believe does about 30 miles on a charge and he does plug it in. It seems a reasonable compromise.

    Doing a quick Google, the BMW 330e only does 25 miles, so wouldn't get me home on electric power unless I was really lucky. The C350e is a mere 19 miles, that's rubbish. Audi have an A3 that does an OK 29 miles but sounds like it's rather gutless. Oh well, the choice can only get better.

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    Re: Hybrid/Electric Vehicles & Gibraltar Legislation

    Electric vehicles are in theory a good idea,but in practice needs the central power source to be also be environmentally friendly(no point of you are using an old coal power plant for example),the power infrastructure to be developed enough,and also more attention being paid to how long cars will be supported with replacement batteries(otherwise they will be worth nothing),and what happens to worn out batteries. If the latter two means electric cars end up having shorter lives,and lots of battery waste and junked car waste being shipped to reprocessing plants around the world,there is also the environmental impact of the fuel oil used in many ships,which is a huge source of pollution,plus also the energy and resources spent on potentially building more cars.

    It might not such a big issue in a larger country like the US,but I am not sure in the rest of the world(especially recycling the batteries and cars).


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    Re: Hybrid/Electric Vehicles & Gibraltar Legislation

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    Electric vehicles are in theory a good idea,but in practice needs the central power source to be also be environmentally friendly(no point of you are using an old coal power plant for example),the power infrastructure to be developed enough,and also more attention being paid to how long cars will be supported with replacement batteries(otherwise they will be worth nothing),and what happens to worn out batteries. If the latter two means electric cars end up having shorter lives,and lots of battery waste and junked car waste being shipped to reprocessing plants around the world,there is also the environmental impact of the fuel oil used in many ships,which is a huge source of pollution,plus also the energy and resources spent on potentially building more cars.

    It might not such a big issue in a larger country like the US,but I am not sure in the rest of the world(especially recycling the batteries and cars).
    Gradual adoption of plug-in tech should allow slow upgrade of power distribution. Coal power is naturally phasing out in this country, with generation being coal free for increased periods. Car engines are so awful in efficiency (including the latest fancy ones like I drive) that grid losses are not an issue, it is still lower carbon to burn fuel at a central generator.

    Cars in the UK are on average scrapped at an age of 14 years (https://www.smmt.co.uk/industry-topi...e-vehicle-age/) so there is a chance the battery would need replacing once during a car's life, though seeing how badly most people treat their ICE based cars I imagine they will just grumble about reduced range and keep driving them.

    I don't understand why we would be potentially building more cars either. Nothing is being forced off the road in any of the rules changes I have seen. Heck, the inner city pollution specs demanding people drive modern cars that are due to come into effect in places like London in a few years are easily met by my wife's 3.2l V6 engined car which is 14 years old.

    A lot of FUD has been spread by the oil industry, and people seem averse to change, and I just don't get it. Maybe we don't need to drive more efficient cars and generally reduce our carbon footprint, but I can't see any scenario where pushing for renewable energy including for driving giving us cleaner air is a bad thing.

    Just stand on a bridge over the M25 and say we're doing this right at the moment! I can say from experience working near one, it stinks

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    Re: Hybrid/Electric Vehicles & Gibraltar Legislation

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    Gradual adoption of plug-in tech should allow slow upgrade of power distribution. Coal power is naturally phasing out in this country, with generation being coal free for increased periods. Car engines are so awful in efficiency (including the latest fancy ones like I drive) that grid losses are not an issue, it is still lower carbon to burn fuel at a central generator.

    Cars in the UK are on average scrapped at an age of 14 years (https://www.smmt.co.uk/industry-topi...e-vehicle-age/) so there is a chance the battery would need replacing once during a car's life, though seeing how badly most people treat their ICE based cars I imagine they will just grumble about reduced range and keep driving them.

    I don't understand why we would be potentially building more cars either. Nothing is being forced off the road in any of the rules changes I have seen. Heck, the inner city pollution specs demanding people drive modern cars that are due to come into effect in places like London in a few years are easily met by my wife's 3.2l V6 engined car which is 14 years old.

    A lot of FUD has been spread by the oil industry, and people seem averse to change, and I just don't get it. Maybe we don't need to drive more efficient cars and generally reduce our carbon footprint, but I can't see any scenario where pushing for renewable energy including for driving giving us cleaner air is a bad thing.

    Just stand on a bridge over the M25 and say we're doing this right at the moment! I can say from experience working near one, it stinks
    If people really cared about the environment they would walk,cycle or use public transport more. A user owned car is a luxury and probably more wasteful to manufacture and more polluting long-term. Cars are a convenience but a band-aid over a lifestyle which is not sustainable. The problem is the car industry has managed to get its mitts into everything hence making a lot of things far more convenient,instead of more investment in other alternatives.

    In a city really you should be using the mass transport systems.

    You are also putting a lot of trust in car companies to support electric cars for 14 years - if these batteries(not the cells) are not standardised its very easy to EOL whole lines of cars. That means making batteries available for 14 years,which are economically viable to purchase. Car companies don't give a rats arse about the environment - look at how many modern electronic devices are chucked away due to the use of proprietary batteries??

    When this was pointed OUT people excuse made,that proprietary were fine,we can trust the companies,etc. Guess,where a lot of this waste gets shipped to?? Other countries in ships burning tons of polluting heavy fuel oil.

    You do realise electronic waste,and even power consumption is actually increasing despite all these "efficient" technologies. Its because usage pattern is far more important - just like someone getting a "more efficient" computer and keeping it on 24/7 just for the LOLs. Even a person with an FX9590 a few hours a week and switching it off probably consumes less energy overall.

    None of the car companies really want to standardise batteries - they don't want to do it since they can have a monopoly on selling them,and locking out third party providers who could extend car lifespans,and then making it non economic to replace them after a period. That way it pushes you do buy another car from them.

    The thing is they can't get away as much with the dinosaur cars,since the tech is more mature and loads of companies will create basic parts from them,even if the manufacturer won't(think of classic cars).

    Edit!!

    Also,look at the issues recycling the batteries:

    https://www.ft.com/content/c489382e-...b-33fe0c5b7eaa

    Its no point pushing out electric cars,until governments put their money where their mouths are,and help upgrade the infrastructure and then also make sure we can recycle the batteries properly too.

    People are just ignoring the amount of pollution ships create:

    https://inews.co.uk/news/long-reads/...bon-pollution/

    They are a worst polluter than cars FFS!!

    So what happens,it will be all dumped in Africa or somewhere else. Yeah,we can export our pollution elsewhere.

    Second Edit!!

    Another article:

    https://www.theguardian.com/sustaina...hium-recycling

    Linda Gaines, transportation system analyst and electric vehicle battery expert at the Argonne National Laboratory in the US says: “The bottom line is there’s time to build plants”. “But”, she adds, “we don’t know what kinds of batteries they’ll be yet. It would help if the batteries were standardised and designed for recycling, but they’re not.”
    I have been saying this for years,if all cars are going electric,its going to be worse than the issues we already have with phones.

    Governments really need to start thinking seriously about this.
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 02-07-2018 at 05:21 PM.


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    Re: Hybrid/Electric Vehicles & Gibraltar Legislation

    Battery reprocessing is major business. Stripping cells down to bare components is dumb when you can shove the batteries into loads that are fine with some minor degradation. https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/f...efore-recycle/

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    Re: Hybrid/Electric Vehicles & Gibraltar Legislation

    Quote Originally Posted by directhex View Post
    Battery reprocessing is major business. Stripping cells down to bare components is dumb when you can shove the batteries into loads that are fine with some minor degradation. https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/f...efore-recycle/
    https://www.theguardian.com/sustaina...hium-recycling

    Carmakers, recyclers and tech startups are working to solve the question of how to deal with lithium-ion batteries when they wear out

    Joey Gardiner

    Thu 10 Aug 2017 09.15 BST
    Last modified on Wed 14 Feb 2018 17.37 GMT

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    New electric vehicles parked in a parking lot under a viaduct in Wuhan, central China’s Hubei province
    New electric vehicles parked in a parking lot under a viaduct in Wuhan, central China’s Hubei province. The number of electric cars globally has just passed 2m. Photograph: STR/AFP/Getty Images

    The drive to replace polluting petrol and diesel cars with a new breed of electric vehicles has gathered momentum in recent weeks. But there is an unanswered environmental question at the heart of the electric car movement: what on earth to do with their half-tonne lithium-ion batteries when they wear out?

    British and French governments last month committed to outlaw the sale of petrol- and diesel-powered cars by 2040, and carmaker Volvo pledged to only sell electric or hybrid vehicles from 2019.

    The number of electric cars in the world passed the 2m mark last year and the International Energy Agency estimates there will be 140m electric cars globally by 2030 if countries meet Paris climate agreement targets. This electric vehicle boom could leave 11m tonnes of spent lithium-ion batteries in need of recycling between now and 2030, according to Ajay Kochhar, CEO of Canadian battery recycling startup Li-Cycle.
    Recycling gap

    However, in the EU as few as 5% (pdf) of lithium-ion batteries are recycled. This has an environmental cost. Not only do the batteries carry a risk of giving off toxic gases if damaged, but core ingredients such as lithium and cobalt are finite and extraction can lead to water pollution and depletion among other environmental consequences.
    Electric car boom fuels interest in Bolivia’s fragile salt flats
    Read more

    There are, however, grounds for optimism. Thus far, the poor rates of lithium-ion battery recycling can be explained by the fact that most are contained within consumer electronics, which commonly end up neglected in a drawer or chucked into landfill.

    This won’t happen with electric vehicles, predicts Marc Grynberg, chief executive of Belgian battery and recycling giant Umicore. “Car producers will be accountable for the collection and recycling of spent lithium-ion batteries,” he says. “Given their sheer size, batteries cannot be stored at home and landfilling is not an option.”

    EU Regulations, which require the makers of batteries to finance the costs of collecting, treating and recycling all collected batteries, are already encouraging tie-ups between carmakers and recyclers.

    Umicore, which has invested €25m (£22.6m) into an industrial pilot plant in Antwerp to recycle lithium-ion batteries, has deals in Europe with both Tesla and Toyota to use smelting to recover precious metals such as cobalt and nickel. Grynberg says: “We have proven capabilities to recycle spent batteries from electric vehicles and are prepared to scale them up when needed.”

    Problem solved? Not exactly. While commercial smelting processes such as Umicore’s can easily recover many metals, they can’t directly recover the vital lithium, which ends up in a mixed byproduct. Umicore says it can reclaim lithium from the byproduct, but each extra process adds cost.

    This means that while electric vehicle batteries might be taken to recycling facilities, there’s no guarantee the lithium itself will be recovered if it doesn’t pay to do so.

    Investment bank Morgan Stanley in June said it forecast no recycling of lithium at all over the decade ahead, and that there risked being insufficient recycling infrastructure in place when the current wave of batteries die. “There still needs to be more development to get to closed loop recycling where all materials are reclaimed,” says Jessica Alsford, head of the bank’s global sustainable research team. “There’s a difference between being able to do something and it making economic sense.”
    Second life for batteries

    Francisco Carranza, energy services MD at Nissan, says the fundamental problem is that while the cost of fully recycling a battery is falling toward €1 per kilo, the value of the raw materials that can be reclaimed is only a third of that.

    Nissan has partnered with power management firm Eaton for its car batteries to be re-used for home energy storage, rather than be recycled, and this economic problem is a big reason why. “Cost of recycling is the barrier,” says Carranza. “It has to be lower than the value of the recovered materials for this to work.”
    Nissan launches British-made home battery to rival Tesla's Powerwall
    Read more

    The lack of recycling capacity is “a tragedy”, says Amrit Chandan, a chemical engineer leading business development at Aceleron, a hi-tech British startup looking to transform end of life batteries. “It takes so much energy to extract these materials from the ground. If we don’t re-use them we could be making our environmental problems worse,” he says.

    Aceleron, like Nissan, thinks the answer lies in re-using rather than recycling car batteries – for which the company has patented a process. Chandan says car batteries can still have up to 70% of their capacity when they stop being good enough to power electric vehicles, making them perfect – when broken down, tested and re-packaged – for functions such as home energy storage.

    Fresh from recognition by Forbes as one of the 30 most exciting hi-tech startups in Europe, Aceleron is looking for investors to help it roll out pilot projects. “There’s going to be a storm of electric vehicle batteries that will reach the end of their life in a few years, and we’re positioning ourselves to be ready for it,” says Chandan.

    This is not the only alternative. Li-Cycle is pioneering a new recycling technology using a chemical process to retrieve all of the important metals from batteries. Kochhar says he is looking to build a first commercial plant to put 5,000 tonnes of batteries a year through this this “wet chemistry” process. However, it is early days for the commercial exploitation of this technology.

    Linda Gaines, transportation system analyst and electric vehicle battery expert at the Argonne National Laboratory in the US says: “The bottom line is there’s time to build plants”. “But”, she adds, “we don’t know what kinds of batteries they’ll be yet. It would help if the batteries were standardised and designed for recycling, but they’re not.”
    It was there in the article!

    But look at the recycling rates - its poor.

    People need to be pushing for this and battery standardisation.

    This is what Argonne National Laboratory does:

    http://www.anl.gov/about-argonne

    Argonne is a multidisciplinary science and engineering research center, where talented scientists and engineers work together to answer the biggest questions facing humanity, from how to obtain affordable clean energy to protecting ourselves and our environment. Ever since we were born out of the University of Chicago’s work on the Manhattan Project in the 1940s, our goal has been to make an impact — from the atomic to the human to the global scale.

    The laboratory works in concert with universities, industry, and other national laboratories on questions and experiments too large for any one institution to do by itself. Through collaborations here and around the world, we strive to discover new ways to develop energy innovations through science, create novel materials molecule-by-molecule, and gain a deeper understanding of our planet, our climate, and the cosmos.

    Surrounded by the highest concentration of top-tier research organizations in the world, Argonne leverages its Chicago-area location to lead discovery and to power innovation in a wide range of core scientific capabilities, from high-energy physics and materials science to biology and advanced computer science.

    At Argonne, we explore the world together in order to build a better one.
    Organic battery researcher selected for innovations program at Argonne National Lab
    https://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2018/o...-national-lab/

    They are involved in things like battery research.

    People have gotten addicted to cars - for decades the car industry has basically has been pushing to be the main mode of transport with governments,with detriment to other forms of ground transport,hence locking whole countries into their industry.

    The fact is electric cars alone won't solve the problem if you really care about the environment - there needs to be a fundamental shift away towards other forms of transport where possible,and a more longterm view on how we handle and recycle electronic waste.

    None of you are questioning the lack of standisation and lifespan of many of these cars,whilst ignoring the increasing amount of electronic waste,being shipped to other countries in heavy oil burning ships.

    I mean we are on a tech forum - look at all those electronics using standard AA cells,etc?? They are still usable today- what about all the electronics using non-standard batteries??

    We really need to move towards MORE recycling and re-purposing of tech.

    We need to move towards more LOCAL recycling.

    Nobody who is for the environement should be against battery standardisation.

    It means the cars will last longer,and it will be easier to recycle the batteries.

    The only people who won't like it are car companies,who can't be trusted,like VW who lied.

    This is why I don't trust they won't find a way to EOL cars,just like a phone company stopping OS updates to force you to upgrade.

    The only reason they seem to be even looking a bit,is since the EU and some governments forced them to do,which is pathetic.
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 02-07-2018 at 05:55 PM.


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    Re: Hybrid/Electric Vehicles & Gibraltar Legislation

    The article pointed out that lithium recycling was poor because most li based batteries are in consumer products - li batteries in EVs are likely to have a much higher recycling percentage - as conventional cars are - because they are broken up by socialists car breakers and the scrap metal sorted and recycled.

    When EVs come to be recycled, the batteries will be the first thing to come out (for safety) and shipped of to a specialist recycler (for £££$$$$)
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    Re: Hybrid/Electric Vehicles & Gibraltar Legislation

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    The article pointed out that lithium recycling was poor because most li based batteries are in consumer products - li batteries in EVs are likely to have a much higher recycling percentage - as conventional cars are - because they are broken up by socialists car breakers and the scrap metal sorted and recycled.

    When EVs come to be recycled, the batteries will be the first thing to come out (for safety) and shipped of to a speciiaist recycler (for £££$$$$)
    They said it with regards to car batteries:

    This won’t happen with electric vehicles, predicts Marc Grynberg, chief executive of Belgian battery and recycling giant Umicore. “Car producers will be accountable for the collection and recycling of spent lithium-ion batteries,” he says. “Given their sheer size, batteries cannot be stored at home and landfilling is not an option.”

    EU Regulations, which require the makers of batteries to finance the costs of collecting, treating and recycling all collected batteries, are already encouraging tie-ups between carmakers and recyclers.

    Umicore, which has invested €25m (£22.6m) into an industrial pilot plant in Antwerp to recycle lithium-ion batteries, has deals in Europe with both Tesla and Toyota to use smelting to recover precious metals such as cobalt and nickel. Grynberg says: “We have proven capabilities to recycle spent batteries from electric vehicles and are prepared to scale them up when needed.”

    Problem solved? Not exactly. While commercial smelting processes such as Umicore’s can easily recover many metals, they can’t directly recover the vital lithium, which ends up in a mixed byproduct. Umicore says it can reclaim lithium from the byproduct, but each extra process adds cost.

    This means that while electric vehicle batteries might be taken to recycling facilities, there’s no guarantee the lithium itself will be recovered if it doesn’t pay to do so.

    Investment bank Morgan Stanley in June said it forecast no recycling of lithium at all over the decade ahead, and that there risked being insufficient recycling infrastructure in place when the current wave of batteries die. “There still needs to be more development to get to closed loop recycling where all materials are reclaimed,” says Jessica Alsford, head of the bank’s global sustainable research team. “There’s a difference between being able to do something and it making economic sense.”
    That tells you enough about how much car companies care and TBH after VW made up porkies,does anyone think they really care beyond selling more cars,more often?? Its wishful thinking.

    I said this about consumer electronics too,and people on the internet argued with me about,yet look at the big issues with electronic waste,poor rates of recycling and the fact its shipped elsewhere(or just dumped).

    Remember Argonne National Laboratory is involved in developing battery tech itself,and even the researcher said that companies are not designing batteries from the start to be recycled - they just want to throw them away.

    People need to be pushing car companies to do more.

    Another article:

    https://recyclinginternational.com/n...elatively-low/

    This is from a recycling specific website.

    Global – The total volume of recycled lithium could reach 5800 tonnes – or 30 000 tonnes lithium carbonate equivalent (LCE) – in 2025, according to a new analysis from Creation Inn. Long service lives, positive prospects for second use and poor collection of portable batteries are said to be the main reasons behind this ‘€˜relatively low’€™ figure.

    By 2025, recycled lithium will represent 9% of the world’s total lithium battery supply.

    More than 66% of lithium-ion batteries, or 191 000 tonnes, are expected to be recycled in China by that year, thus fuelling the country’s fast-growing battery material industry.

    The percentage will be even larger for cobalt-containing batteries, with 76% of the cobalt in 2025 expected to be recycled in China without taking production scrap or other sources into account.

    At least 60% of batteries from electric vehicles are believed to serve second-use solutions before being sent for recycling.

    When volumes eventually increase in Europe and North America, the Chinese recycling industry will have ‘a strong competitive advantage’ through proven technology and available capacity, according to Creation Inn.

    ‘The limited recycling of lithium-ion batteries in Europe and North America has very little to do with lack of technology but is rather a consequence of a policy framework that doesn’t acknowledge the reuse value in the batteries which currently drives them overseas,’ argues report author Hans Eric Melin.

    ‘From a circular point of view, it actually works fairly well but it doesn’t provide much support to governments’ ambitions to secure access to critical raw material in the EU, US and Canada,’ he adds.

    The biggest market drivers for lithium are said to be: intelligent battery management systems; flexible and scalable battery pack design; smart take-back systems; and applications based on second-life batteries.
    See I told you - most recycling means shipping it to China on heavy fuel oil containing ships,both ways.

    Hardly any lithium is recycled.
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 02-07-2018 at 06:19 PM.


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    Re: Hybrid/Electric Vehicles & Gibraltar Legislation

    Thankfully for the forseeable future I expect to mainly see 48V mild hybrid designs. In the same way that there are multiple 12V lead acid and 14.4V EFB/AGM formats I'm sure there will be a few to choose from, but chances are you will be able to pop to Halfords to get a new hybrid battery when it all shakes down.

    http://www.automotive-technology.co.uk/?p=2699

    Car parts for 14 year old ICE cars exist. Why would that change for hybrid and electric cars? In fact the simplicity of a fully electric drive-train could help keep cars going for longer.

    Now, batteries for 18V Li-ion drills etc, they should be standardized and fast.

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    Re: Hybrid/Electric Vehicles & Gibraltar Legislation

    Another article:

    https://waste-management-world.com/a...nergy-clean-up


    With their prolific use in a wide variety of devices, as well as their increasing use by the automotive industry, the need to improve the recycling of lithium-ion batteries is becoming critical.

    As recently as 2014 there were just three planned ‘battery megafactories’, with over 1 GWh of cell production capacity annually. The plants were planned globally: Tesla’s Gigafactory in the US, LG Chem’s plant in Nanjing, China, and Foxconn’s plant in Anhui, China – the last was never built. Currently, according to Benchmark Mineral Intelligence, 26 battery cell plants are either in production or due to expand capacity. The firm, which specialises in price assessments and analysis for the raw materials of lithium, cobalt, nickel and graphite anode, explains that the combined capacity of these plants is 344.5 GWh. It estimates global supply in 2017 to have been around 100GWh.

    While the huge volumes of new batteries anticipated to be produced in the near future will not reach end-of-life for many years to come, significant and increasing volumes are already doing so. According to a recent analysis by Creation Inn, a consultancy specialised in energy storage and the circular economy, the total amount of recycled lithium could reach 5800 to 30,000 tonnes Lithium Carbonate Equivalent (LCE) by 2025. Cobalt is expected to reach 22,500 tonnes. However, the volume of material available for recycling is limited due to poor collection systems for portable batteries and good reuse prospects as utility scale storage for automotive batteries.

    His report finds excellent prerequisites for a global circular model with batteries moving from first to second use to ultimately being recycled in closed-loop solutions, bringing old material to life in new batteries.

    From a raw material perspective, recycled battery minerals such as lithium, cobalt, nickel and manganese can be found in new batteries already today. But, according to Hans Eric Melin, consultant at Creation Inn and author of the study Circular Opportunities in the Lithium-Ion Industry., the volumes in relation to the rapidly increasing demand for materials are minuscule - especially for lithium. Investments in additional recycling capacity and implementation of new technologies, together with the already steep price increase for lithium and cobalt provide important drivers for change.

    He anticipates that by 2025 the amount of cobalt from recycled batteries will reach almost 20% of the demand. Most of this is expected to be recycled and re-synthesised to new cathode material ready to be used in Chinese cathode manufacturers’ processes.

    China Taking Charge
    According to the report, more than 66% of the lithium-ion batteries, or 191,000 tonnes, is expected to be recycled in China, feeding the country’s fast-growing battery material industry. The proportion will be even larger for the important cobalt-containing batteries at 76% without taking production scrap or other sources into account.

    Melin, who has spent eight years in the battery recycling industry and over 15 years in energy and environment-related industries, says that by the time volumes eventually increase in Europe and North America, the Chinese recycling industry will have a strong competitive advantage through proven technology and available capacity.

    "The limited recycling of lithium-ion batteries in Europe and North America has very little to do with lack of technology but is rather a consequence of a policy framework that doesn’t acknowledge the reuse value in the batteries which currently drives them overseas. From a circular point of view, it actually works fairly well but it doesn’t provide much support to governments’ ambitions to secure access to critical raw material in EU, US and Canada,” says Melin.

    Second Life
    One major factor which could delay and restrict the volume of automotive lithium-ion batteries being sent for material recycling is the potential to reuse them. According to Melin there are excellent opportunities to capture a substantial part of the energy storage market by taking back electric vehicle batteries and using them in utility-scale storage solutions.

    He says that the model connects well with similar solutions for vehicle-to-grid in which the vehicle is used as a grid-connected battery. The model also provides strong growth opportunities while also compensating for revenues that will be lost when sales of spare parts and services are decreasing due to the limited need for maintenance of new electric cars. The analysis from Creation Inn anticipates that at least 60% of the batteries from electric vehicles will serve in second use solutions before they are sent to recycling.

    Global Alliance
    Closing the loop on lithium-ion batteries is not just an environmental issue, but a moral one, too. Many of the materials contained in these batteries are mined in dangerous, dirty conditions – often by children.

    There are enormous human and environmental costs: an Amnesty International report highlights the prevalent use of child labour in mining of cobalt. Materials such as lithium, nickel, manganese and graphite have also been linked to pollution, water shortages and other environmental and social concerns.

    In a bid to tackle the situation, last year’s World Economic Forum Sustainable Development Impact Summit saw the launch of the Global Battery Alliance. It aims to create a responsible value chain for the fast-growing battery market, from the mining and chemical industries to manufacturers, electronics, automotive and energy businesses.

    Major technology, mining, manufacturing, automotive and energy businesses are joining forces with UNICEF, the African Development Bank, other international organisations and NGOs to create a responsible global supply of batteries in a market that is set to be worth $100 billion by 2025.

    The alliance intends to safeguard workers, ban child labour, eradicate pollution, promote re-use and recycling and unlock innovation for green energy storage. The organisation says that a 12-fold increase in battery production capacity is needed to meet consumer demands and the promise of a low-carbon economy. The market is likely to reach $100 billion by 2025 and batteries installed in homes and businesses will account for 57% of the world’s energy storage capacity by 2040.

    Not So Smart
    According to Dominic Waughray, head of public private partnerships at the World Economic Forum, the human toll is dire, and both valuable raw materials and a huge business opportunity is going to waste.

    “The phones may be smart, but the system is certainly not sustainable. All the electronic waste we discarded in 2014 was worth $52 billion,” he says. “It contained 300 tonnes of gold and significant amounts of silver and palladium. To get these rare minerals and metals so that all our phone, car and toothbrush batteries work smartly, many poor people are paying a terrible cost, as is the environment. We keep a smartphone or tablet on average for just 26 months and then we throw it away, battery and all.”

    Benedikt Sobotka, Chief Executive Officer, Eurasian Resources Group, a major natural resources producer with cobalt mining operations in the Democratic Republic of Congo, adds: "Unfortunately, there is almost a 100% chance that your smartphone or electric vehicle contains cobalt that comes from child workers in artisanal mines. Although creating new ethical energy sources will help, we all need to do whatever we can to put an end to child labour.”
    So at best 60% might be re-used,with 40% being probably dumped. What happens with those re-used batteries,then??

    Some of you really need to understand why lithium recycling is important.

    But its expected - how many here are worried about general electronic waster whilst ONLY concentrating on electric cars.

    I have hardly seen any posts about cutting heavy fuel oil use in ships,which is even worse!!

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    Thankfully for the forseeable future I expect to mainly see 48V mild hybrid designs. In the same way that there are multiple 12V lead acid and 14.4V EFB/AGM formats I'm sure there will be a few to choose from, but chances are you will be able to pop to Halfords to get a new hybrid battery when it all shakes down.

    http://www.automotive-technology.co.uk/?p=2699

    Car parts for 14 year old ICE cars exist. Why would that change for hybrid and electric cars? In fact the simplicity of a fully electric drive-train could help keep cars going for longer.

    Now, batteries for 18V Li-ion drills etc, they should be standardized and fast.
    LOL,you mean lead acid based on a standard repeating cell which are shared amongst multiple vehicles(they are a standard),or the batteries which are designed to a very specific shape of one model of car.

    The likelihood of car companies keeping those huge batteries in production for 14 years is slim to none,especially if the tech improves.

    Or are we seeing companies backporting newer chemistries to older devices??

    Oh wait,that happens with AAs,D cells,etc?? Or even those car batteries,which are standardised sizes.

    Have a standard set of designs and you can upgrade your old electric car with better battery tech. Plus its easier to swap out batteries too.

    Even analysts are saying we need to move to standard designs. The designs are not standardised.

    Funny if people are pro-electric car,they want no standardised batteries,are against better battery reycling??

    Anybody for the environment should be for standardised batteries.

    It also will lower cost of production - instead of that Nissan battery pack,you could buy another companies one!!

    More competition=lower prices.

    Also better standardisation should improve recycling ease too.

    Win-win.
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 02-07-2018 at 06:34 PM.


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    Not a good person scaryjim's Avatar
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    Re: Hybrid/Electric Vehicles & Gibraltar Legislation

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    … they are broken up by socialists car breakers and the scrap metal sorted and recycled. ...
    … to the benefit of the many, not the few...?

    A couple of thoughts though:

    Regardless of the source of the electricity used for charging, one thing EVs do is remove pollution from the location of the vehicle. For somewhere like Gib, which is small and trades a lot on tourism, improved air quality from easier-to-manage pollution is an obvious quick win for planners.

    The policy has very sensibly been given a rather long lead time - 1 July 2030 means you're looking at a 12 year lead time. Think about what hybrid/EV options we had back in July 2006, and think how far the technology has come in the last 12 years. I don't think it's a huge stretch to suggest that pretty much every model of vehicle will have some form of hybrid option in 12 years time. I reckon there's a reasonable chance that in the interim there will have been a further investment in some form of renewable supply for Gib too.

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