A brexit petition worth signing

[outwar6010]

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/219905

[TeePee]

Better no deal than staying in, or worse, staying in while constantly 'trying' to leave.

The worst thing for the economy is the uncertainty, once you're out, the rebuilding starts.

[kalniel]

Is there a petition for improving the grammar of the petition maker?

[outwar6010]

Better no deal than staying in, or worse, staying in while constantly 'trying' to leave.

The worst thing for the economy is the uncertainty, once you're out, the rebuilding starts.

That makes no sense. Leaving the eu means tearing up soo many agreements and starting up from scratch. If there was ANY pros of leaving: why did team leave resort to lying with bold claims about how the nhs would be showered with money(forgetting that its been deprived of funds due to bs austerity measures) and resorting to absurd levels of manipulation through the cambridge analytica stuff?

[Saracen]

Rarely have I seen a more moronic petition.

First, it implies all the EU have to do to kill Brexit is to make it impossible to get a deal.

Second, .... (removed)


EDIT - Actually, never mind sevond, etc, the above is enough, coupled with a democratic referendum vote which said Leave.


Any further discussion here will simply go round in circles

[Galant]

It is remarkably dumb.

It would mean that all the EU had to do to prevent any referendums/nations leaving, would be to simply offer no deals.

I don't know if it's my age now but politics these days just seems to be much more partisan, not just at the higher levels but even (especially?) down at the level of public discussion. Efforts to actually listen to, and understand, the other side seem to be few and far between, and instead it's just a mudslinging competition to see who can get the most stick, or else, shout down the other side. It's rather disheartening. Not sure what more we should expect from representative government if the public themselves are content to read/listen to that sort of nonsense instead of demanding better.

[outwar6010]

Rarely have I seen a more moronic petition.

First, it implies all the EU have to do to kill Brexit is to make it impossible to get a deal.

Second, .... (removed)


EDIT - Actually, never mind sevond, etc, the abovevis enough, coupled with a democratic referendum vote which said Leave.


Any further discussion here will simply go round in circles

Does the leave vote really count after stuff like the cambridge analytica scandal?

[Saracen]

Does the leave vote really count after stuff like the cambridge analytica scandal?

Last time I looked there was zero evidence that CA had had ANY effect on how people voted.

Again, if we invalidate demicratic decisions on the basis of such antics, no democratic decision, including general election results, will ever sgain be acceptable to those that lost,

But that still misses the point of THIS petition, which is that if it stood, the EU could unikaterally halt Brexit simply by refusing to offer a deal, or at a minimum, one even half-way acceptable.

There is an argument that that is what they are doing anyway, not least because playing hardball up until the 59th minute of the last hour is right out of thrir standard negotiating handbook, designed to extract maximum advantage. The only way to counter that is adopt the same tactic (which is pretty much what May appears to be doing) on the basis that no deal will hurt the EU too .... and especially, hurt the RoI.

[Hoonigan]

Does the leave vote really count after stuff like the cambridge analytica scandal?

Of course it does. The majority of the country (myself not included) voted to leave the EU, so we must leave the EU.
If we don't follow that course of action then what's the point in having a vote?

[peterb]

Well, the EU political way is to keep holding referenda until they get the 'right' answer - eg Ireland and the Lisbon treaty.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

OP may I point you to the last Brexit related thread which end in utter chaos:

https://forums.hexus.net/general-dis...eferendum.html

[philehidiot]

There is already a deal to leave the EU and it is part of EU law. This petition will never get anywhere as to do as it suggests would completely undermine Parliament and be basically as good as tossing out our whole system of government.

The current situation is silly but we have rules, systems and structures for a reason and you can't just stamp feet and throw them out because you don't like them. Find a way to help using the structures that are in place and the rules that exist otherwise, if you're going to throw out the legal framework upon which we function then we don't even have a country as an entity.

I think this is going to end up with the EU realising their scorched Earth outcome (no money from us, businesses internationally hit, short term shutdowns and massive import / export delays killing JIT industry) is going to cost us all stupidly and last minute emergency measures / deals will be put in place and basically the process extended. We must not offer them a penny without a deal as otherwise we will be hung out to dry.

No one on either side of the debate wants this kind of chaotic outcome because of what amounts to ego on all sides. If you have a constitutional way of avoiding it, I'm sure everyone would love to hear it.

[outwar6010]

There is already a deal to leave the EU and it is part of EU law. This petition will never get anywhere as to do as it suggests would completely undermine Parliament and be basically as good as tossing out our whole system of government.

The current situation is silly but we have rules, systems and structures for a reason and you can't just stamp feet and throw them out because you don't like them. Find a way to help using the structures that are in place and the rules that exist otherwise, if you're going to throw out the legal framework upon which we function then we don't even have a country as an entity.

I think this is going to end up with the EU realising their scorched Earth outcome (no money from us, businesses internationally hit, short term shutdowns and massive import / export delays killing JIT industry) is going to cost us all stupidly and last minute emergency measures / deals will be put in place and basically the process extended. We must not offer them a penny without a deal as otherwise we will be hung out to dry.

No one on either side of the debate wants this kind of chaotic outcome because of what amounts to ego on all sides. If you have a constitutional way of avoiding it, I'm sure everyone would love to hear it.

In what world is asking parliament to overturn the brexit vote the same as tossing out our system of government? It's not exactly like imposing a french style revolution. Team leave have lied time and time again about how good life will be post brexit but but hours after the vote farrage etc distanced themselves from those promises.....In the time since brexiters won the vote thousands of jobs have been lost, ardent leavers like nigel lawson have applied for citizenship in france, we're hearing that the tories have told pharmaceutical companies to stockpile 6 weeks of medicine and the list is endless to show how much of a horror show brexit will be.
I mean this all starting to feel like willful ignorance at this point and leavers kinda come across as climate change deniers. No matter how many studies and experts call out how crap brexit will be, there's people insisting to follow through just because of the initial vote; even though polls show that a great deal of brexiters have woken up to the bs leavers were peddling.

[philehidiot]

Throwing out a system of government because as soon as you choose what rules you're going to follow and what rules you're not for the sake of convenience / political views (no matter how sincerely held) you're throwing out the law. We are a nation of laws. We are a nation that exists under law. There is no mechanism in place to "ask" Parliament to undo a law that has been passed. Parliament were already asked and enshrined us leaving into law. The process to repeal a law can not come from a public online petition. The Agenda is set by the government of the day. Hence why a petition like this will simply be rebuffed and ineffective. If people want to be effective in this they have to look deeper into our constitutional processes and see how they can be utilised.

This thread will hopefully be locked as you seem to suggest to prevent more emotional people getting too upset and banned.

[jimborae]

Of course it does. The majority of the country (myself not included) voted to leave the EU, so we must leave the EU.
If we don't follow that course of action then what's the point in having a vote?

You could equally argue that it doesn't count from a legal stand point on the basis that the referendum wasn't made legally binding before the vote took place.

All it did was indicate that a small majority of the people that were eligible to vote, and did actually vote were in favour of leaving. It was purely advisory.

Cameron, if he actually had any brains & balls could have easily declared that the majority wasn't large enough to indicate an overwhelming desire of the general populous to leave.

If the Gov had any forethought it should have set conditions for the vote to be binding such as % of electorate required to vote for result to be valid/legally binding. And they should have made the referendum legally binding in the first place, which can be done.

Then there could be no arguments from either side .........except.........then it would have had to been declared an invalid result under election law/rules due to the illegal over spending by the leave campaign. So we would have had to have had another vote anyway...........

And so we go on..............Personally I believe a lack of forethought has cost us our children's futures. Yet again.... The UK negotiating position would surely be much stronger if there was incontrovertible majority, legally binding vote. As it stands I think the EU feels it can force a revote by playing hardball and offering no deal, possibly even causing another General Election. And thus trying to show other countries not to make the same mistake they may believe we have. .

[Galant]

You couldn't have had a referendum with a lot of specifics, that would have essentially reversed the position and put the cart before the horse, that is, question one, do we want to remain in the EU, question two, if not, how do we moved forward. Requiring details in a referendum means asking and resolving the second question before the first one.

Regardless of whether any given individual or group wanted Brexit, I'm still surprised how many simply don't understand that it boils down to those two questions, one of which is resolved, the other of which will be decided now and forever on into the future.

It's basically a decision to move house. The question was, do we want to remain in the current neighbourhood? The majority of the household voted to leave the neighbourhood, so now the question is, where do we move to (and how much money etc. do we pay the neighbourhood housing community when we leave). This has to be seen as an opportunity by anyone and everyone in the household, because it's the only way to make this work. And it could work, rather well. But it stands a better chance if there's pragmatism and a positive mindset, rather than denial and stubbornness.