Gun nut question

[philehidiot]

This is a question about guns. From the recent 'do you shoot' post, I'm guessing I might get an answer on here.

I recently acquired a HK416 which is basically a modified AR15 platform. There are 20mm rails.... everywhere.

I do target shooting at around 25 yards.

We (me and the missus co-own our guns) have a nice CZ .22 for the proper target shooting stuff with a decent scope all nicely set up. But this thing is quite a different beast.

I'm struggling to find a scope with variable magnification that fits on the 20mm rail which isn't pants. The decent ones all seem to be on the 11mm rails and I'm loathed to get a converter as it's just another thing to get out of alignment and mess up the zero. I've got a silly "tactical" scope on there at the moment and it's just silly and all for looks. You go into a shop and explain what you want and they just have in "tactical" looking things as that's what people want (scopes with rails on... makes me want to put scopes on scopes....). No, I want to hit the target and it not be dark and blurry, thanks.

Does anyone have any ideas on a decent scope which might work well for semi-auto target shooting at this kind of range? I generally shoot sat down with a bipod because I have zero skill and a bad back. The reason I want variable magnification is that we usually go and shoot on a Friday and it's give and take what kind of a state I'm in. Bad week at work with lots of dying patients and so on = big magazine and many holes in many places. Good week and me not half dead = want to play at actually hitting the target.

Anyone who has any experience in this area, I'll take any advice.

[TeePee]

25 yards is a really short distance.

Personally I like the Vortex Viper PST series. It will hold up to anything you throw at it, and if you go with a 50mm objective lens the target will be nice and bright even in the evening on a cloudy day. The downside is, they're pretty expensive, and probably overkill for what you want. I have a 5-25x50mm, and find it a great scope for 600yards, but 5x power is probably more than enough for 25yard shooting. It's overkill.

If you know you're sticking to 25 Yards, then something like an SWFA SS in a fixed power 6x42mm would be my choice. With a 42mm lens it will still be very bright, and you have your choice of reticle, but it's less than a quarter of the price. They're a real bargain with some nice glass. They do also have variable power scopes in the range. Anywhere should have scope rings to fit a 20mm rail.

[philehidiot]

25 yards is our regular club shoot. We will be going elsewhere in times to come but frankly, a semi auto just isn't going to cut it at long ranges, hence why we have the bolt actions. The club we shoot at has a deal with the MOD and we can use one of their ranges but the issues are that the shoots get cancelled at short notice (guessing the MOD like the nice weather) and also they run it like a military range, so you have to go and set up the targets (which are huge) as well as the stands, etc.... I have had 3 spinal surgeries. I am not up to that. There's another range nearby which we're going to investigate but first we want to get our guns properly set up. It's more expensive but I can not haul 6 foot targets around, simple as.

The "tactical" scope I have is a 2-6x28. I think the glass just isn't good enough for full magnifcation. It's blurry and the 28 means it just isn't bright enough.

I have absolutely no problem paying for a decent scope as long as I know it's gonna be decent and suited for the stuff I'll be doing. What I don't want to do is pay for something and find it's not suited to my needs. I suspect the scope will last longer than the guns. I see it like cameras. Good glass is for life.

I'll have a look at what you've suggested, thanks. Any other suggestions are welcome.

I've always had stuff that just clips straight onto the rails before. When you buy a decent scope do they expect you'll buy rings separately?

[TeePee]

Yes, rings are usually separate from the scope, and another part where it's worth investing in quality.

Generally a fixed power scope will be clearer at the same price point, variable scopes have a trade off on clarity, especially at the extremes of their variability.

Objective lenses and light gathering ability are exponential. The difference between a 28mm and a 40mm will be huge!

[Zak33]

what round does it fire?

(UK gun owner, but relatively good knowledge of the whole scope field)

[Zak33]

Hang on.. does it have picatinny rails? Is that what you mean? I think Pics are considered 20mm

[TeePee]

It's probably a weaver rail. Compatible with a picatinny, but with more slots. Both are about 20mm wide.

An HK416 is an AR-15 pattern rifle made by H&K. The major difference is the gas piston system, which is a significant improvement over the original design. It's chambered in 5.56x45mm. There's also a HK417 in 7.62.

[Zak33]

What I mean is... he needs pic or a weaver scope mounts, not your classic 11mm

[philehidiot]

Yeh the scope mounts will be 20mm ones. Had a look around and there are a few which would work.

This gun is chambered in 22LR and was bought for indoor use. Our range doesn't have insurance for much big boy stuff indoors. You can get away with certain .44 rounds (and a .50 mini cannon....) but that's it.

We have a decent bolt action which is good for outdoors stuff.

That's why I'm looking at paying for decent glass and being able to transfer it if required. I have only ever bought scopes for traditional style rifles with the 11mm mountings and the 19/20mm stuff I've used has just been bolt on and go. Hence asking for advice / anything else I need to consider.

[rob4001]

The first gun I ever shot was british army slr basically a modified fn fal. I didn't shoot in a long long time then moved to US and went to a range and shot quiet a few pistols glock 19 9mm Smith and wesson .40. The glock was my preference. If you haven't taken a lever action rifle down range i recommend it fun to shoot and take cheaper pistol ammo. I'm sure you gun nuts know all this though

[Zak33]

tbh the scope has no bearing on the mounts.

good glass is good glass.

I'd start with Hawke and work up in cost.
Rifle scopes are parallax set to 100yds, (whereas Air Rifles benefit from a AO/ Parallax adjustment to bring the range down to the shooting distance).

there are 2 scope tube sizes in the main - 1" (25mm) and 30mm. The larger lets a lot more light through but they're always more money as all the glass needs to be bigger.

If you're starting out, you'll be very happy with a Hawke Vantage. Look at the reticle and decide. I@d always start people on a 3-9x40.
Next step up are glass etched reticles.

But in every case, the SCOPE and the MOUNTS are different items. I'd not bother buying one with the the other as a package. Choose them specficially.

If it's Weaver or Pic you can choose to have fast removed lever style or ones with thumb screws than need a screwdriver to tighten. JUST GET THE RIGHT SIZE to fit your scope - 1" or 30mm

[philehidiot]

The first gun I ever shot was british army slr basically a modified fn fal. I didn't shoot in a long long time then moved to US and went to a range and shot quiet a few pistols glock 19 9mm Smith and wesson .40. The glock was my preference. If you haven't taken a lever action rifle down range i recommend it fun to shoot and take cheaper pistol ammo. I'm sure you gun nuts know all this though

A lever action is last on the list of things to buy right now. We settled on a .357 but it might end up being a .44. They're fun but I might just go for a .44 revolver. Because I'm a little strange and like asking paper targets if they're feeling particularly lucky today. In order I've got another bolt action to get, then semi auto pistol (M1911 most likely, I love them) and then, depending on what cash is left over from the current budget, I MAY get an underlever.

Zak:

Cheers. What I've dealt with before has all come as one integrated thing and you never considered scope and mounts as being different.

That's all really helpful. I've used scoped guns before but it's always been military-style scopes with fixed mag or just a red dot and you bolt it on and go. All this target malarky has been a bit of an eye opener.

[Ttaskmaster]

We settled on a .357 but it might end up being a .44. They're fun but I might just go for a .44 revolver.... semi auto pistol (M1911 most likely, I love them)

Hang on... You can still own them in the UK??!!
Why the flippy-heck wasn't I notified??!!

[Zak33]

Zak:

Cheers. What I've dealt with before has all come as one integrated thing and you never considered scope and mounts as being different.
That's all really helpful. I've used scoped guns before but it's always been military-style scopes with fixed mag or just a red dot and you bolt it on and go. All this target malarky has been a bit of an eye opener.

I've got 4 scopes at the moment and all 4 came without mounts - I am moving one from traditional 11mm Air Rifle rail mounts (Sports Match UK) to a Picatinny rail using UTG twist lock. It's a 25mm tube scope and in this case a 50mm obective lense with an Adjuster ring making it sit quite high. SO the height of the scope mounts is just as important too... it's kinda traditional to keep the scope as low as is viable.

[philehidiot]

Hang on... You can still own them in the UK??!!
Why the flippy-heck wasn't I notified??!!

Ha, there are some limitations but yes, we've shot .44 revolvers, someone has an M1911 (in .22 but that's fine for indoors stuff) but you can get underlever .357 or .44 as well.

I do want to get something bigger for outdoors but I'm something of a cripple and the range used by my club is an MOD range which involves building the target mounts and hauling giant targets around. I'm sure someone would help me but I will NOT go somewhere and rely on other people doing stuff I can't do. It would be different if I could arrange something before hand with someone who was willing to be thrown a few quid but, regardless of people's willingness to help, they're going to shoot, not to spend their own shooting time helping the cripple. There's another range nearbyish which is more user friendly and I'm hoping to try that out. When we're happy we'll stick in a variation for something bigger if we want to. At the moment there's about 7 different guns on our ticket as well as shotguns on top so it's not as if we're in a rush to buy more.

Right now, I want to get myself a nice .22 bolt action. My missus has taken to the one we got to share.... I've yet to get a look in so I really need to get myself one. The whole "tacticool" assault rifle thing is kinda fun (my scope has rails on it.... I'm going to take scopes to mount on the scope to turn it into the most tactical of tactical scopes) but not every day at work is a bad day.

[Ttaskmaster]

we've shot .44 revolvers, someone has an M1911 (in .22 but that's fine for indoors stuff)

Oh, wait, lemme guess - The .44 has such a long barrel it's technically more of a rifle?
The way I read the laws, it sounds like anything that's actually a pistol by most interpretations is banned in anything above .22.

Probably a good thing, as the list of stuff I'd want in my collection is hideously long!

The whole "tacticool" assault rifle thing is kinda fun (my scope has rails on it.... I'm going to take scopes to mount on the scope to turn it into the most tactical of tactical scopes)

I've known far too many Tacticool types... Long as you don't take it too seriously, I should manage to keep my sarcasm in check!