CCLonline / Box.co.uk?

[badass]

This is my experience with eBuyer Returns
I bought a UPS which came DOA. I had to send it back at my expense, they had no more in stock, and they only refunded me credit vouchers!

So I was left with no UPS, -£15 for delivery due to weight and some pointless vouchers I couldn't use anywhere else. And to top it off the credit vouchers expired!!!!
So I had to buy something I didn't exactly want or need at the time. Have never shopped since!

Just do a chargeback on your card. Job done. Probably too late now. BTW as long as its less than 6 years ago and you paid on your credit card, you can do a Section 75 claim still.

[Saracen999]

Just do a chargeback on your card. Job done. Probably too late now. BTW as long as its less than 6 years ago and you paid on your credit card, you can do a Section 75 claim still.

Well yes, ASSUMING :-

- the cost was >£100 (and less than £30,000 but that would be a hell of a UPS), and
- it was a 'consumer' purchase, not a business purchase, and
- the card was a credit card or other form of credit not a debit card (a point yyou made).

All that may well be the case but, if it was a 'business' purchase, most of the protections we rely on all the time don't exist, includig s.75. Also, of course, in those circumstances (an overtly faulty item) the shipping cost back to the supplier is for them to pay, and "vouchers" is not a legally valid form of refund .... though some retailers still try it on with depressing regularity. IIRC, it must be refunded back to the original payment method used unless the consumer agrees otherwise.

I don't think AGT put a timescale on this. It could have been ages ago. If it wasn't, it might not be too late to take them on over it .... if so inclined and up for the hassle. This is a large part of why I tend only to buy from suppliers I trust (hopefully not incorrectly) not to mess me about if something is wrong. SO FAR, Amazon haven't, John Lewis haven't (though their CS seems to have derteriorated in the last few years), and a few small, local suppliers haven't. So I buy from them even at a price premium, if necessary, in the name of hassle-avoidance.

[ik9000]

I am convinced John Lewis is a ghost of its former self. The stores feel barren compared to previously, staff clueless, customer service declining. I get the impression, and this is my speculation, that the lack of staff bonuses of recent years has encouraged some staff to leave, combined with natural retiring of longer term staff, has brought in a new crop of employees, as the ones I've encountered in Oxford St have been very young and very clueless. I think their buying dept has lost some good knowledge, or else they are deliberately downgrading the product offerings in store (try and find a decent black suit in JL now, or even a decent suit - TLDR you'll struggle).

It's almost like when Debenhams went bust JL hired all their staff and said "we are the new debenhams now, but let's aim to be Currys in 10 years"

[Saracen999]

I am convinced John Lewis is a ghost of its former self. The stores feel barren compared to previously, staff clueless, customer service declining. I get the impression, and this is my speculation, that the lack of staff bonuses of recent years has encouraged some staff to leave, combined with natural retiring of longer term staff, has brought in a new crop of employees, as the ones I've encountered in Oxford St have been very young and very clueless. I think their buying dept has lost some good knowledge, or else they are deliberately downgrading the product offerings in store (try and find a decent black suit in JL now, or even a decent suit - TLDR you'll struggle).

It's almost like when Debenhams went bust JL hired all their staff and said "we are the new debenhams now, but let's aim to be Currys in 10 years"

This is speculation too, but my guess is that several factors have hit them hard,

1) Online selling, like Amazon etc
2) Pandemic, and especially lockdown, reinforced 1).
3) Harder financial times => savings". i.e. store closures, staff reductions.

I am given to understand that staff reductions have been, erm, drastic. Some whole levels of maagement have gone, and entire floors at HQ now stand empty.

Sorting out the chicken from the egg is hard, but my inclination is in the above order. I think problems, or 'challenges' had started before any of us heard (at least as a problem) of Covid but that that certainly accelerated things as a result.

I remember a discussion with a Waitrose branch manager some years (about 15 probably) ago, during a large-scale branch refit, that took weeks because it was done piecemeal, one chunk of floor layout at a time, as to why they didn't just close the store for a week or two and get it over with. The answer was that last time they did that, customers couldn't just put up with the clatter and banging but had to shop elsewhere for that couple of weeks. A good percentage (memory suggests 15% or similar) just never came back.

The suggestion was that many shoppers are creatures of habit. But if you force a break of habit, even for a couple of weeks, some percentage will get into the habit of shopping elsewhere, be it Sainsbury, Aldi or whatever. So what happens if you close for the entire duration of lockdown? My guess is Amazon etc are still smirking.

And 3) is the result.

[DanceswithUnix]

The Mk3S+ is looking like it could do with a 'refresh'. It's one of my reservations with it, though I came VERY close to succumbing in the pre-Christmas deal. But when I think about it, what would I really want refreshed? 32-bit board? Maybe, but that existing board, and software, is pretty bullet-proof. What would a change enable?

Just a quick thread resurrection/hijack to say I saw a quote that a MK4 is hopefully releasing in Q2, if Prusa can get their supply issues sorted.

[Saracen999]

Oooo .... thanks, DwU.

It would probably make more sense for me to go Mini+ for a first toe-dipping exercise, but I'll admit the XMas offer of the Mk3S + Enclosure did tempt me, largely 'cos .... y'know, shiny, new etc. Yeah, okay, I nearly fell for it. My logic is there are some materials the Mini+ either can't handle, or not as well as the Mk3S (slightly lower max temp on the Mini) but when it came down to plonking down a largish wedge of wonga, I still thought "Do I really want those materials? Or just want to be able to do them? And in reality, just how often would I really use that?" The answer, in my head of course, was rarely, if ever.

Nonetheless, if there's a new big kid on the block ....

Then again, the Mk3S is a bit pricey for a toe-dipping, and I'd bet my left gonad a Mk.4 won't be cheaper.

Still, I will be watching with baited breath. And besides, it's a good excuse to vacillate for a bit longer.

[DanceswithUnix]

Still, I will be watching with baited breath. And besides, it's a good excuse to vacillate for a bit longer.

lol, there is that.

As for materials, I bought my original MK2 with a roll of ABS which I have hardly touched in all this time. It's a pain to print, and I just never need those properties. TPU on the other hand, and NinjaFlex in particular, well that has been really handy. Some TPU will go down a bowden tube, but that Ninja stuff is like trying to feed elastic bands down a hosepipe, even with direct drive the filament sometimes springs sideways out of the hotend

But for everyday use... I might spend the morning designing a cymbal clamp, if I can work out a way to make use of the existing metalwork of the drum stand. That, like just about everything else, I would make out of PETG.

[Ice Tea]

https://www.techpowerup.com/318300/b...es-doing-trade

Box.co.uk Enters Administration Phase, Business Ceases Doing Trade

Got this from another forum.

[Jonj1611]

Yes says so on their website. Bit of shame, message from their website :

"Please note that Michael Lennon and Mark Blackman of Kroll Advisory Ltd were appointed Joint Administrators of Box Ltd on 19 January 2024. The business has ceased to trade and all enquiries should be directed to box@kroll.com.

If you have made a deposit for or paid for goods or services by credit or debit card that have not yet been received, you may be able to get your money back by claiming a refund from your card issuer. Please contact your card issuer as soon as you can if this may apply to you.

The Joint Administrators act as agents of the Company and without personal liability and both are licensed by the Insolvency Practitioners Association."

[AGTDenton]

Tactus have already removed any mention of Box from their site. They're understandably a little bit miffed!

[Saracen999]

Tactus have already removed any mention of Box from their site. They're understandably a little bit miffed!

It does inded look that way, as they reportedly are suing. That raises all sorts of questions in my mind but, as it's apparently going before the courts, no doubt answers to those questions will be in short supply for quite a while.

More generally, I can't say I ever bought from Box so there's a limit to how much I'll personally miss them, but every extra little bit of competition helps consumers, so it's not good to see the relatively small range of choice shrink still further.

[Output]

I've only dealt with them once, which was a decade ago via eBay.

They automatically created an account on their site from that order, so I had to request it be deleted as I obviously didn't want that account, just that particular item I'd ordered.

So I can't say its closure affects me, but it's certainly sad that it means less competition.

[Percy1983]

Administration doesn't strictly mean its over for a business (it is one of the options for the administrators). I have ordered a few times in the past and everything was fine. Always a shame if some competition disappears.

[Jonj1611]

I have worked for a company in administration. We kept on trading but had to stamp in administration on everything.

[Saracen999]

If I remember correctly, it depends on the nature of the administration, and critically, why it's in administration. Sometimes, the optimum outcome is to carry on trading because it may be possible to, for instance, sell the company as a going concern to a new owner with cash to keep it going, or even in a similar area of operations themselves where they may already have some necessary infrastructure that can reduce costs and make the company viable.

Or, sometimes, carrying on trading is not an option, and the best result is shutting down and liquidating such assets as there may be. In that case, once preferential creditors (listed by me in no particular order, though the order actually used used is specified in law, staff salary payments, outstanding taxes due, and anyone with a 'charge' on the assets like secured lenders or mortgage holders, etc) have been paid, then it'll get to unsecured creditors like trading partners owed money on goods supplied.

Well down the list is going to be those consumers that have paid for goods and not yet received them. Even further down is going to be those who develop faults iin a few months and want to rely on their consumer rights. Good luck with that. You MIGHT get lucky is te company was bought as a going concern, but even that depends on exactly what was bought.

My personal reaction (though it's not advice on what others should do), sadly, would be not not order from a company in administration unless very specific conditions were met - like payment in cash on delivery or when collecting goods .... like in a shop, where you can say "I'll have this, here's the money".

Or, and for anything non-trivial it's always a good idea (providing you have the money and ay the card off before the due date, obviously) is if you are going to order from a company in trouble (or even one that isn't, to be honest) do it on a credit card. Not debit, though that's second best, but specifically credit card. There are several rules, but the basics are it MUST be for >£100, and <£30,000, and even part-payment on the card should be enough. The reason is the cover from s.75 of the Consumer Credit act which makes the credit company 'joint and severally liable' with the trading company.

The mere possibility of companies going down, unexpectedly, after getting your money is one of the strongest reasons for using credit cards, especially for stuff like furniture where delivery may be weeks or months after you paid for it, or most of it. Fitted furniture is another good example. Just know if it does come to that, you should find your money protected, but it can still be a right PITA for months, getting it sorted.

Which is why, personally, I'd order from elsewhere in that type of situation unless you either can't get the <whatever> elsewhere, or the administrators are offering a deal too good to turn down. But be aware, the administrator IS under a legal obligation to maximise the value of any asset, to pay creditors so if you're getting a great deal, it'll be because for whatever reason, that's the optimum revenue-raising, or cost-minimisng path. i.e. you're taking a bit of a punt.

In any event, while administration certainly isn't necessarily the end of the company, it's (obviously) never exactly a good sign, and quite a high proportion of the time, it will prove to be the end, because if they went into administration in the first place, it's rarely by choice.

And yes, for what it's worth, I spent some time (months) in our insolvency department during my accountancy training. It's a necessary process I guess, but usually thoroughly depressing work. Not a career I wanted.


EDIT - I noticed a news article today (without reading it) about company failures being at a 30-year high.

[AGTDenton]

And Box have risen from the ashes. Bought by a new company called Five Tech

May as well give the new owners a fair chance.

https://overclock3d.net/news/misc/bo...relaunch-soon/


Oh and it does appear that CCL were bought as well by a different group, Wilder Bidco, so are also under new owners.

Tactus basically fell apart completely in the wake of the old Box directors scandal.

So a fresh start for both, I'm prepared to give them a go again. I just don't need anything right now...