Now THAT is one hell of an electric car!

[Saracen999]

I've just seen the video Marques Brownlee did of the Rimac Nevera.

0-60 mph in 1.74 sec. No, not a typo.

0-100 mph in 3.2 sec.

0-200 mph in 10 sec.

Quarter mile in 8.3 sec.

0 to 250 mph, and back to 0mph, under 30 seconds.

I mean ..... lt's just say I'm finding it very difficult to avoid using expletives right now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sF9xYtouZjY

Oh, production car too. Albeit only 150 of them, at $2.4m per.

Then, doing a head to head against a Porsche 911 Turbo S, giving it a 2 second headstart, in a 400 yard race. And spanking it's .... backside.

Oh just go watch the video already!

[Jonj1611]

The Tesla S is stupidly quick as well. I am not surprised about electric cars though, no gearbox, no induction to worry about. Though not sure how long your battery will last

[[GSV]Trig]

That is one hell of a performance weapon, however, I'd take the Porsche 911 Turbo S, and then for an EV I'd get an Aptera...

[Saracen999]

That is one hell of a performance weapon, however, I'd take the Porsche 911 Turbo S, ....

Or both?

I mean, if you can afford $2.4 million for the show-off-mobile, then ....

[badass]

Is it just me that finds these electric performance cars........uninteresting?

Yes its impressive but they are one trick ponies to me. Having been taken for a spin in a variety of Teslas and whilst the acceleration was impressive it was always the same. Another mate then took me for a spin in a slower M2 competition and it was so much more.......fun.

[[GSV]Trig]

Or both?

I mean, if you can afford $2.4 million for the show-off-mobile, then ....

I think, even if I had obscene amounts of money, I still wouldn't, for 2.4millions I could pay off all of my debts, buy myself and the missus an everyday car, and then a weekend toy, and a house...

[Saracen999]

I think, even if I had obscene amounts of money, I still wouldn't, for 2.4millions I could pay off all of my debts, buy myself and the missus an everyday car, and then a weekend toy, and a house...

If you had those obscene amounts of money, you wouldn't have debts .... or rather, you wouldn't have the 'mundane' form of debt most of us have, like car loans or credit card debt. The mega-rich sometimes have more esoteric debts, but if they truly are extremely rich, they only have the types and magnitudes of debts that suits them.

Ever watched a bloke make his quarterly yacht payments by walking in with several hundred thousand pounds in two supermarket carrier bags? In cash. i have. I asked him if he thought it was a security risk, and he told me "only if someone knows where I'm coming from, and what I'm carrying. But look at me - who would suspect what was in those bags?"

He was right. I'd be warned to expect "an interesting experience", but not what it would be.

Or, on a different occasion, a lady paid for some custom jewelry from a designer goldsmith (a relative of a friend of mine). That one was a cool quarter-million, again in cash. She, it turned out, was a Saudi princess. Not that I met her - this was from a bedroom window at a rather nice house (well, manor house) belonging to my friend's family, and I just happemed to be visiting.

And they (or certainly the yacht chap, the Saudi princess, I have no idea how wealthy, though I could hazard a guess) weren't anywhere close to being extremely rich ... though that is a rather subjective term. It depends which end of the telescope you're looking from.

My point was that there are some, and my guess is more than you might think, that see money in a different way. For you and me, if we spend £x,000 on this, we don't have it for that. There are those for which the kind of money we're talking about, where you even have to consider if you want a weekend car as a toy or not, let alone paying off debts, just isn't an issue.

Some years ago, I happened to be passing Maranello's and as it happens, on my way to a private test event by a large car group, and I thought I'd pop in and have a mosey round. I'd often contemplated getting a used Ferrari, though thankfully, common sense always prevailed. Anyway, i was eyeing up a 355 when the salesman came over. We chatted and I told him, quite truthfully, just contemplating, but not seriously looking. This was, IIRC, about 28th or 29th of July (probably 1995 or 96) and he said he had a "used" 355 coming in a couple of days later, beause one of his regulars always updates the car for Aug 1st, because the owner, and I quote, "won't be seen driving last year's registration plate". He also said, again a quote, it has "less than 1500 miles on it".

We discussed prices, and that car would have saved me about £25k, or a bit more, over the same car brand new. The inference I drew from that was that (and this bit is speculative) by the time you added the dealer's commission, the owner was probably paying something like £30-35k to upgrade because of his aversion to a car not on the current number plate. I suggested a private plate, but the dealer said the bloke wouldn't do that because it wouldn't demonstrate it was on the latest plate.

Ironically, a couple of hours later I was driving a nice subtle blue F355 Spider around the area, courtesy of that Malaya Group car event. At least I got to drive the 355.

But again .... which end of the telescope? I was contemplating buying one, but didn't because, well, it wasn't the buying that was the problem. When you looked at insurance, and hell's bells, servicing intervals and costs .... all I can say is it really is a case of if you have to ask how much, you can't afford it. I certainly could, then and now, afford the car but it would put far too big a crimp on finances to run and service the damn thing. Yet that other bloke wasn't very far off the "get a new car, the ash tray is full" end of the telescope. I somehow doubt it was his only car.

But there are easily plenty of people that can afford very expensive cars, without even thinking about it, with the same (or less) thought than most of us would put into a coffee at Costa, even at $2.4 million, that I'd bet those 150 are all now pre-sold.

That is what I mean by mega-rich - a $2.4 million 'whatever' is an impulse buy, not a heavily considered purchase.

[[GSV]Trig]

Ha, yes, good point, I suppose I could always just buy myself a telescope, could afford that

[Saracen999]

Ha, yes, good point, I suppose I could always just buy myself a telescope, could afford that

Jodrell bank (and after fixing mirrors on Hubble, NASA) might question that.

On the other hand, I have a handheld thing you can have for a fiver. Which is probably about what it cost me. I have trouble remembering what I had for dinner last night, never mind trivia from near 50 years ago.

Assuming I can even find the damn telescope. Or haven't given it away at some time or other.

i did seriously think (more seriously than the F355, anyway) about a nice mirror 'scope a few years back, complete with computer link for motorised tracking. Not peanuts money, but something half decent, with a camera mount, wasn't as silly-money as I thought it would be. But I concluded it was more whim than serious interest, unfortunately.

[TeePee]

Have you seen the Lucid Air Sapphire?

1234bhp, and 0-60 in 1.89s, so slower, but wrapped in a practical four door saloon.

It's going to be in widespread production, and only about twice the price of a Tesla Plaid. (Likely with twice the build quality)

https://www.lucidmotors.com/stories/...ic-performance

[kalniel]

Certainly impressive for people outside of the UK!

Here though.. I wonder how much someone could enjoy it - track days aside.

I've been testing a few cars recently and anything with a 0-60 time starting with a 3 or 4 is surprisingly dull on the acceleration front - not the acceleration itself, just that it's over so quickly. In everyday driving even the 30-60 transition is over in a blip then you sit at the national limit.

[Saracen999]

Certainly impressive for people outside of the UK!

Here though.. I wonder how much someone could enjoy it - track days aside.

I've been testing a few cars recently and anything with a 0-60 time starting with a 3 or 4 is surprisingly dull on the acceleration front - not the acceleration itself, just that it's over so quickly. In everyday driving even the 30-60 transition is over in a blip then you sit at the national limit.

All the following definitely falls into "IMHO" territory. Just sayin'.

Anything even remotely quick has been falling into the "How practical is it here" quagmire for years. Actually, decades.

I've worked through a variety of "fast" cars for, oh, 40 years or so. At the low (which means early) end were things like Ford Capri (3.0 and slightly later 2.8i), Triumph Stag (with both original V6 and replacement Rover V8 options) to a Ferrari Dino (246GTS - see note below). The surprising thing is that even the Dino, which was pretty damn quick, and nimble, for it's era, is positively pedestrian by the standards, even for many entry-level cars and certainly nothing to scare any hot hatch, today. Still got huge street cred (even if thinking that shows my age), though.

I've also tried everything from a V12 E-Type to Aston Martin Lagonda, from a DB7 (and DB8, DB10 etc) to a Lotus Esprit Turbo, and from a TVR Tuscan to a Porsche 911 Turbo.

Every single one, especially of that latter group, were capable of getting you into legal trouble right quick, especially for anyone not used to powerful cars. More than a few of them, especially the Tuscan, were also capable of getting you into a ditch, or tree, or brick wall, right quick too. Even the Capris, though quick for their time, were just a smidge tail-end happy and could be pretty deceptive in the wet.

About, oh dunno, early 2000's, I took a BMW M5 out for a test, with my local sales guy. We went a few miles on local roads, onto a nearby strip of M-class dual carriageway, then back to local roads and back to the dealership. So, I'd prodded the loud pedal few time times but once we got onto the dual carriageway, I relaxed a bit and just cruised, not concentrating on speed and mainly, talking. When I glanced at the speedo .... OH CRAP!

110mph.

To this day I'm surprised the dealer guy said nothing. Almost as surprised as I was at the speed, which was emphatically NOT deliberate. Okay, I might pinch a smidge here and there, and if forced by torture, might admit to a VERY occasional extremely naughty spell on a deserted bit of motorway at stupid o'clock in the AM. But I don't do that kind of speed on remotely busy roads (intentionally) EVER. Certainly not at 1pm about a mile and a half from a police motorway patrol base. Ahem.

It didn't feel fast, and it sure didn't sound fast. My everyday car at that point, and for several years previous? A BMW M3 (and the sales guy knew it, having bouht it from him, at his dealership). It's not like I wasn't used to "quick".

My point? It doesn't have to be anything remotely close to a $2.4m mobile time warp machine to be capable of going way, WAY beyond anything road-legal, very quickly. It's been that was for a very long time, and even a few moments inattention to the damn speedo got me "into cruisin' for a ban" territory without even noticing, let alone intending to.

The M3 ain't slow, and there's a growing list of cars every bit as fast, and quite a few here will own cars even faster than that, including most everyday Tesla's.

So .... I don't think "fun", in that sense, is why people buy fast cars. I know why I bought one (well, quite a few, but especially the M3) .... because for an activity I haven't actively enjoyed in several decades (driving) due to the volume of traffic on the roads, I get my kicks where I can. One place where I can get a momentary thrill is that quick burst of power in the mid-range, when overtaking.

And I look at it this way. If you're going to overtake, ONLY do it when it's safe. But once doing it, I want it done quickly so the faster I can get out, past who/whatever I'm overtaking, and back on the right side of the road, safely, the better.

Some people also, whether consciously or not, deliberately or not, seem to speed up when you're ovetaking them (or when I am, anyway), and if you have that real reserve of mid-range power, you can be out, past and back in, job done, fait accompli, before they really notice what's going on.

So, IMHO, that ind of car (and anything in that high-performance category even at much less eye-watering prices) is for people that like to drive such cars and know what the car is capable of doing, and hopefully are only going to do it when it's safe to do it. Which doesn't include 110 on a dual carriageway, intentionally or otherwise (see note 2), by the way.



NOTE - The Tag "Dino" was variously applied to different models over several decades ('50s to mid 70's). The one I mean was the early '70s 246GT/GTS model which, IMHO, is the really pretty, curvy one. The tag itself, however, doesn't much narrow down the exact car. I just grew up regarding the 2464T/GTS as beint "the" Dino, and it's still what I immediately think of when someone says "Dino, despite knowing better these days. Oh, and I'm just referring to the road cars, not the race cars, etc.


NOTE 2 - in some, um, nearly 50 years of driving, I have a COMPLETELY clean licence. Not a single point, not a single fine, not a blemish, ever.

Cars with even Capri 2.8 let alone M3 or electric rocket-ship performance, are not cars conducive to keeping your licence, unless you've pretty damn careful. That 110 incident alone would have been enough for formal guidance to a magistrate to be "start at considering a ban", and much of the time, you'd be lucky if it didn't end at that. The recommendation (last time I checked) was to recommend a ban for anything 30mph or more, over the posted limit at the time. So in a 30 zone, 60 could (and IMHO generally should) result in a ban. Its almost certainly much more damgerous even than 110 on a fairy quiet dual-carriageway on a nice, sunny day.

[[GSV]Trig]

NOTE 2 - in some, um, nearly 50 years of driving, I have a COMPLETELY clean licence. Not a single point, not a single fine, not a blemish, ever.

I can put my hand up to that one, well, the clean licence part, I'm 3 years off of 50 yet, but the licence has never been touched by blue hands...

I can also get the speed of cars being relative, I went from a 1.6 8v Mk2 Cavalier to a Mk3 Cav GSi, I picked it up and was on my way back up the M5 when a guy pulled out into the 'fast' lane and as I broke and looked down at the clock it was coming back through 120, a speed that it reached with relative ease, and with a comfort that was not an indicator of its speed given what the Mk2 was like at much slower speeds.
Going from the Cav GSi, to the Calibra Turbo knocked a chunk out of the 0-60 time, especially after it had been 'fettled' slightly, and again, being faster wasn't translated into how much faster it felt..

Its like going from a spinner, to a SATA SSD, and then to an nvme drive, its faster by miles on paper, but doesn't feel it in the same way...

[Saracen999]

I think it's also about ride, noise, the whole "ambient" thing. One of the most deceptive cars I've driven was a Rolls. Very quiet, very comfortable, felt a bit like driving a flying carpet .... wearing noise-cancelling headphones. But, while hardly a sports car, they can get up there if the driver wants to. I'm just guessing the drivers usually don't especially want to.

But that was the difference with the M5. No doubt, if in 'sports' mode or whatever it was called, it would have been a bit more noticeable. But it wasn't. It was just in standard drive mode. Still, 550bhp, or whatever silly figure it was, can be surprisingly deceptive. The M3 has no clever modes. Or mine didn't, just the gears and a gearstick, not one off the fancy new-fangled programmable performance and transmission flap-shift thingies like the M5 did. I dunno what newer M3s have. Not tried one.

[kalniel]

Yeah I get the safe overtake thing.. but again in reality if there's a situation where a supercar makes much of a difference then it probably wasn't such a safe overtake in the first place - if it can't be carried out safely by a, say, 8 second 0-60 time car, then no amount of power is going to help you see around corners etc.

And if someone is bring a prick then far better to leave them to it - and in a non-supercar you're probably going to be much less frustrated behind them - other cars are probably more enjoyable to drive slowly!

I reckoned I have two choices to stay sane on today's roads: go luxury so a slow ride is relaxing, or go classic sports so a slow ride is enjoyable

[Saracen999]

Yeah I get the safe overtake thing.. but again in reality if there's a situation where a supercar makes much of a difference then it probably wasn't such a safe overtake in the first place - if it can't be carried out safely by a, say, 8 second 0-60 time car, then no amount of power is going to help you see around corners etc.

And if someone is bring a prick then far better to leave them to it - and in a non-supercar you're probably going to be much less frustrated behind them - other cars are probably more enjoyable to drive slowly!

I reckoned I have two choices to stay sane on today's roads: go luxury so a slow ride is relaxing, or go classic sports so a slow ride is enjoyable

I was more referring to the M3 than a supercare with the overtaking.

But .... let me clarify one thing.

What I meant was that if you can overtake safely, the quicker you can get out, past and back in, the better. I didn't mean that it was a good idea to overtake in 4 seconds if you need a supercar (or performance car) to be able to get away with it at all. Then, I'd agree - don't overtake.

So if te Mrs could overtake in a bog standard Golf, or Polo or something (not a hot one (hot car, that is, not the wife)) but it would take, oh, 8 or 10 seconds beginning to end, then it's safer to do it in the M3 where I can be out, past and back in in say, 3 or 4 seconds.

What I didn't mean was get an M3 so that if you only have 4 or 5 seconds, go for it, but you couldn't do it at all in a standard road car.

So .... overtake ONLY if the circumstances are such that it's safe, but providing they are, then it's even safer to be done in 5 seconds than to take 8 or 10. Every extra second on the wrong side of the road increases risk. Also, of course, without driving like a nutcase to do it in 5 seconds.

Having the power there is not a licence to drive like a nutcase. And to be honest, usually if I see someone driving like a nut, it's a younger driver (used to be mainly male but these days, young women are as bad if not worse) that wishes, or imagines he (or she) was driving a powerful car, or thinks they're an F1 driver, that overtakes in stupid places. And note I said "usually". There's the occasional exception in a truly quick car driving like his (or her) backside is on fire, but my experience is that mostly, those driving performance cars don't feel a need to prove anything.

That's one thing I like about the M3 - mostly, it looks like a standard 3-series. Sure, there are give-aways (tyre width, exhaust pipes, etc) and some signs less easy to replicate by a poser on a standard car, like wheel arches, or ride height. Even engine note is pretty subtle on the M3 .... until you let rip a bit. Then, it sure doesn't sound much like a bog-standard 3.

So it's sorta stealthed. Mostly, only fans of performance cars would recognise the fairly subtle signs. Everybody else rarely gives it a second look, which is exactly how I like it.

Absolutely agreed on idiots, though, like those that deliberately accelerate when you overtake. I too would much prefer them safely in front of me where I can keep an eye on them, than behind me and driving aggressively. Though I did have one, and careful typing is needed here, twit that objected to being passed on a motorway and decided to tail-gate me at about half a car length behind. So, eventually, without moving my accelerator foot at all, I carefully rested my left foot on the brake. Not enough, you understand, to actually brake but enough for my brake lights to come on. His nose (the car, I mean) dipped and his steering wobbled a bit as he appeared to sh... mess himself, and he got the message. He dropped back. When a safe space appeared, I immediately pulled over to the middle lane and just maintained my speed which was (by speedo reading) about 77. By Satnav, about 74. If he wanted past, go for it. I just wanted past the 55-60 he was doing while, it looked to me, fiddling on his phone. He didn't overtake. It seems 75 was fine by him, but he just didn't like being overtaken, though all I'd done was pull out (lane 2 to lane 3), and ease past. Nothing aggressive, AT ALL.

Idiot.