Illegal forum topics - where do you draw the line HEXUS?

[5cupa]

I dread to think what new ideas they have for anti-copying in the future....retinal scanners anyone?

[Howard]

Optical drives linked straight to the police.

[dangel]

So ripping CDs for your MP3 player is illegal?

Yes, yes it is Just as is recording a CD onto a tape for personal use. Of course, it's now worse, as to 'rip' a CD you may need to circumvent DRM, in which case your in violation of a whole new set of laws.. There is no such thing as 'fair use' in the UK and it's a common misconception otherwise (probably because it exists in other countries such as the US). Special rules apply for Educational purposes as I remember (and no, that doesn't include "checking out a new band"! ) but that's about it.
It's a curious situation tho - it's legal to buy an MP3 player for the car or your pocket, but not legal to fill it with content as you can't buy a licence for it in that format (the exception being DRM-ed digital files from iTunes or another pay-for service) - and remember, that's all you get - a licence to play it in the format as sold - from a CD purchase.

[IBM]

So is this thread going to get the previously locked thread re-opened, or are all threads with regards to MP3 ripping/game reselling/making love song tapes for your significant other going to get locked too?

After reading that previous thread, it's really bugging me, but what's the name of the software that allows you to copy the CD contents to your harddrive and sets the contents up as a drive letter so the software thinks that it's a CD drive...

Or is asking that going to get this thread closed? In which case I retract my question

[Swafe]

If fair use hasnt been extended, its a world gone mad

You pay good money for a CD, only to not be able to listen to it in a current media form? Media changes, you used to buy LPs to listen to music on, now if you want to listen to your music should you legally have to buy it again off iTunes giving the record companies more and more money they dont need. I think not, you should be able to convert it between the formats into MP3 so you can carry it around with you, I havnt seen anyone with their personal LP player lately?, if youve paid for the right to listen to a piece of music once, you shouldnt be made to pay again.

The same goes for portable video players now coming onto the market, I've paid shed loads for my DVD collection, I'm not paying probably the grand or 2 Ive spend compiling it to watch DVDs on the move, its ridiculous, whether its legal or not, it should be allowed..

[dangel]

If fair use hasnt been extended, its a world gone mad

It's a world gone mad. Sorry.

You pay good money for a CD, only to not be able to listen to it in a current media form? Media changes, you used to buy LPs to listen to music on, now if you want to listen to your music should you legally have to buy it again off iTunes giving the record companies more and more money they dont need. I think not, you should be able to convert it between the formats into MP3 so you can carry it around with you, I havnt seen anyone with their personal LP player lately?, if youve paid for the right to listen to a piece of music once, you shouldnt be made to pay again.

The same goes for portable video players now coming onto the market, I've paid shed loads for my DVD collection, I'm not paying probably the grand or 2 Ive spend compiling it to watch DVDs on the move, its ridiculous, whether its legal or not, it should be allowed..

The problem is that unfortunately, greed is king in these industries and they really couldn't give a flying expletive as to whether you want convenience or not. In fact, they'd rather you palmed up more cash to buy it for your iPod (or other DRM-ed player) in a nice, safe, tied down format. You really don't expect a large corporation to _trust_ it's customers now do you?

[tim_n]

Making copies for yourself is about as far as you can go legally.

I seem to remember from a discussion with my father that this is actually illegal too, however the recording industry just puts a blind eye to it.

[dangel]

I seem to remember from a discussion with my father that this is actually illegal too, however the recording industry just puts a blind eye to it.

Not at all, it's just unpolicable so there's nothing they can do about it. Does anyone remember when they tried to introduce legislation that said how long you could keep a video of a television programme post-transmission? Wasn't it something like 30 odd days? Ridiculous!

[tim_n]

Not at all, it's just unpolicable so there's nothing they can do about it. Does anyone remember when they tried to introduce legislation that said how long you could keep a video of a television programme post-transmission? Wasn't it something like 30 odd days? Ridiculous!

hehe, was that you disagreeing or agreeing?

I'm not sure about all this fair use argument tbh. That's not to say that I don't have my own mix CD's in my car. It's one of those really, really tedious bits of legislation that I feel shouldn't apply. I like to think anything I buy is _my_ property and I can do what I like with it. If I buy an xbox (I haven't btw) and mod it, that's my choice. In the same way that if I buy a bunch of firewood and use it to make a gadget for scaring horses, no one should complain. However if I copy a CD and give it to my friend, I can see how that might cause a problem and _that_ shouldn't be allowed.

I think we're loosing perspective on what should be a very simple problem. DRM should restrict content to a single person, but not a single computer or a single device. If I buy a movie to watch once, then fine, restrict it to a pc, but let the price reflect this.

Paying itunes 79p a track is akin to receiving the track on CD. I like some of the record companies (the smaller ones) that offer non-DRM encoded MP3s with no restrictions at 1/3 of the cost of the CD. Their reasoning - if you're not getting the CD, we're not paying for the distribution except server/bandwidth, so why should you pay the same. Gawd bless WARP records.

ramble ramble ramble...

[Flibb]

Can we get around problems like this by phrasing questions in a better manner?

Rather than "How do I rip Swedish nurses IV to my HD so I can play it in the privacy of my own bedroom"

You could ask "A friend has done a promo DVD that is not covered by copyright, how can I rip it?"

Or use home movies, etc.

A similar thing happened when somebody had a copy of a game before release. If people didnt ask where it comes from theres not a problem. He could have an import copy, he could have won it in a competition, been sent it before release date by a supplier, etc.

Again the problem is that somebody will start asking questions or making points that cause a problem.

[dangel]

hehe, was that you disagreeing or agreeing?

...er.. both What i meant was they don't turn a blind eye, they just can't do anything about it. It's a bit like how they don't turn a blind eye to sueing children for downloading because it's traceable, whereas when they rip a cd in their own home it isn't..

[Moby-Dick]

A similar thing happened when somebody had a copy of a game before release. If people didnt ask where it comes from theres not a problem. He could have an import copy, he could have won it in a competition, been sent it before release date by a supplier, etc.

I dont think thats a very good example - given that HEXUS is working closely with the publishers and knows exactly when games should be released , then for anyone to have had the game before that date would be from a journo breaking NDA , or from a warez version.

Expect similar responces to posts about pre release comments of films etc.

[ajbrun]

Maybe that thread wouldn't have been locked if it hadn't been said what was going to be ripped and why? I think if the DVD had been a personal wedding video* or something that somone had recorded, then maybe it would have been different?

* I think that's possible.

Edit - same thing as Fibb said, just didn't refresh the page before I posted .

[tim_n]

Expect similar responces to posts about pre release comments of films etc.

but everyone knows I'm a big celebrity, though *completely* annonymous on hexus and I get all the screeners months before anyone else completely legally!!

[DavidM]

In the same way that if I buy a bunch of firewood and use it to make a gadget for scaring horses, no one should complain.

Except the RSPCA of course.

[autopilot]

which Sony products require you to RIP a DVD ? None spring to mind.

Well Sony sells the PSP as portable video player, as well as a games console, which plays movies off the memory stick. So how do we make use of this great feature? Seeing as Sony don't sell DRM'ed movies like they do with their music (yet), ripping DVD's and recording TV shows (also technically illegal i think) is the only way to do it. There other players of course, some with software that actually does the DVD ripping for you without having to use third party software. With the PSP it's not so much of a requirement i agree, but it seems to be a feature that they are happy to promote and the only realistic way of using it is a bit of a grey area.

Maybe I'm not being clear with what i was asking though. My original post was not regarding the wrongs and rights of DRM, just the difficult position the Hexus forum mods must be in at times and how they go about figuring out what's liable for a lawsuit and what's not. Just how much of a threat is it? I mean, have hexus ever been contacted by any companies/law organisations regarding a thread on the forums? You must admit, the line of acceptability is fuzzy.

I just seems odd really. Odd in that one thread regarding ripping a disk it considered a no no, while other threads regarding the best software to make MP3's with is ok. I mean, 'technically' even using Itunes is illegal, no? Hexus even did an article on how to get itunes to work with a PSP. I know it comes down to what is concidered 'fair use', but if the thread mentioned above was not fair use, then what is Divx on a Zen Video player concidered? Do you see what i a getting at, or am i just rambling now?!!! My own personal view is that ripping DVD i legally own to play off my PC/portable is fair use, as is ripping my bought CD's for my MP3 player.

I must reiterate, this is not a criticism at all. The Hexus forums are they best and most fairly moderated forums i have ever used. I'm not asking for any threads to be locked or unlocked. I was just curious really and thanks for being such as such a great place to hang out I'm guessing with the goal posts constantly moving, it's just better to be safe than sorry at the end of the day.