Illegal forum topics - where do you draw the line HEXUS?

[iranu]

This is interesting - I am looking at buying an mp3 player and many now allow you to record/encode on the fly - that is put cd into cd player - connect mp3 player to cd and record to mp3 player. It's a feature that is actively promoted by the mp3 player makers.

As far as I'm aware any copying of material is in breach of copyright, however as stated above this is impossible to police on an individual basis. The problem for the film/music/software industry has always been organised bootlegging, but now we are in the digital age it is easier for the solo user to copy (and distribute material to millions).

I don't think that pc plod is interested in you ripping a genuine cd to mp3 and then copying it to a player as long as it's not distributed or broadcast.

Ever since the invention of the tape recorder we have been making compilation tapes and swapping music with friends. It didn't kill the industry and I doubt ripping cd's to mp3 for personal use and swapping with friends will either. The big problem is illegal file sharing, but just like making a copy of a tape this is impossible to stop too.

Film/record companies are going to have to learn to lower their CD prices, lower mp3 download prices, market material differently.

Interesting article in todays Telegraph about a new British band and how they used p2p to their advantage http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...4/nmusic24.xml

Perhaps hexus could run an article on this and contact someone in th UK who knows what the law is.

[Swafe]

You really don't expect a large corporation to _trust_ it's customers now do you?

Nope, not when they can make stupid amounts of money from selling the digital versions of music people already own

[smtkr]

Hexus needs to move it's hq to a country where the mafia (xxAA) can't reach it.

[Konan555]

Is there a test case anyone can dig up where someone's been prosecuted for having a copy of a CD they own (I'm talking music only in this case) on an MP3 player for personal use?

Interpretational law 'n' all.

As far as I read it, the Distribution licence has been covered by the CD manufacture so all the end owner is paying is for the music itself, irrespective what format they choose to convert it to.

[vincent]

Peeps should have mroe common sense these dayss than to post Illegal Topic on a Legal affliliate[AKA Hexus.net]

Ripping a DVD is considered Illegal becaue your breakign Copyright Protection of that Film and the makers who develoepd it.....

Like every single Image on google search u find, someone can sue you because you didnt ask for their permission to use it

we all have our own opinion on the law and hows its pressuized into Society,some of us dont believe in certain types of law[Illegal file sharing for a E.G.] and some of us take high advantage on the laws[E.G.-Selling copy dvd's in the nearest Market place] and other choose to live by the law,we al lhave different perspectives into things that makes u different

would you believe this right... i've just tought this through since were on the topic....
your Average mp3 player is actaulyl breakign law as well due to the fact that your copying the file to a portable device-according to old VHS laws and their stil lapplicable to any cd you buy or albums you download- your NOT allowed to Lend,copy or Rent the product...

[Spud1]

Well Sony sells the PSP as portable video player, as well as a games console, which plays movies off the memory stick. So how do we make use of this great feature? Seeing as Sony don't sell DRM'ed movies like they do with their music (yet), ripping DVD's and recording TV shows (also technically illegal i think) is the only way to do it. There other players of course, some with software that actually does the DVD ripping for you without having to use third party software. With the PSP it's not so much of a requirement i agree, but it seems to be a feature that they are happy to promote and the only realistic way of using it is a bit of a grey area.
.

err what about UMD movies? They are available all over the place, play.com would be an example..it is a portable video player no need to illegal dvd ripping/tv recording etc etc

[iranu]

your Average mp3 player is actaulyl breakign law as well due to the fact that your copying the file to a portable device-according to old VHS laws and their stil lapplicable to any cd you buy or albums you download- your NOT allowed to Lend,copy or Rent the product...

so if you download a song say from itunes to your pc and then COPY that song to your ipod/mp3 player, then technically you are breaking the law or does itunes et al have a clause that allows you to copy the music? (DRM won't matter the act of coppying seems to be all that matters)

This is the problem because the area is so grey as to what you can and can't do we don't really know exactly what the boundaries are regarding topic discussions on a board such as Hexus. The only thing to do is to re-read the terms and agreements or the forum guidlines sticky once in a while.

[badass]

Is there a test case anyone can dig up where someone's been prosecuted for having a copy of a CD they own (I'm talking music only in this case) on an MP3 player for personal use?

Interpretational law 'n' all.

As far as I read it, the Distribution licence has been covered by the CD manufacture so all the end owner is paying is for the music itself, irrespective what format they choose to convert it to.

I doubt it. The labels wouldn't bother to do it as they have little to gain, and a huge amlount to potentially lose by a test case.

[5lab]

Like every single Image on google search u find, someone can sue you because you didnt ask for their permission to use it

not true, if protected by the creative commons licence, you're fine as long as you dont use it for financial gain

would you believe this right... i've just tought this through since were on the topic....
your Average mp3 player is actaulyl breakign law as well due to the fact that your copying the file to a portable device-according to old VHS laws and their stil lapplicable to any cd you buy or albums you download- your NOT allowed to Lend,copy or Rent the product...

vhs is an interesting one - basically the law states (to the effect of) you are allowed to record a tv show, but ONLY for the purposes of time delaying it (ie, to watch once at a later date). keeping it for a long time isnt allowed.

[specofdust]

Hmm, I reckon that thread was badly worded. If you put things in the right manner, you can avoid anything that hexus wouldn't like to have on their forum, and you can still get all the information you desire. Explain the bare minimum, don't mention things that don't need mentioning.

[kempez]

so if you download a song say from itunes to your pc and then COPY that song to your ipod/mp3 player, then technically you are breaking the law or does itunes et al have a clause that allows you to copy the music? (DRM won't matter the act of coppying seems to be all that matters)

I thought iTunes allowed for copying to 3sources or something like that. I'm almost certain that Winblow$ music download thing has some sort of allowance

[vincent]

the Laws for VHS for CDS- with iTunes they dont apply due to the fact that Apple have already asked permission from the record labels so peopel can use iTunes service

5lab, think about it, if i created a image and you swipe it off me and use it for personal/business usage- it's breaking my copyright- because every creation you create a image or flash object,is automatically a copyright by yourself due to the fact that your the creator of that image or flash object -If you have the original file format [i'll use PSD for a jpg Image created In Photoshop] you have strong proof that the document is your and since Windows shows the date it was created-including time-it's heavy proof in a court room [If people take it that far-I read it from a study AOL did about a year back....

Copyright Infrinegment is easily broken than you think

Also for the peeps who dont believe the VHS style on CDs- take a look at any original cd you've got and it should say something along the line of...

"The copyright in this sound recording is owned by[Distributor/Record Label name here] and is exclusively licensed to [Rebel record label here].
All rights of the manufacturer and of the owner of the work produced reserved.
Unauthorised Copying,Lending,public performance & broadcasting prohibited."

Them laws are not pressurised enough,thats the many reasons why people get away with it...


Just to think how many companys would losoe money if the Laws above was more pressurized-Windows woudl become a cropepr due to the fact that in WMP -it giveyou the option to copy the cd :| LOL

[shaithis]

Datetime stamps in or on a file are so easily faked I would hate to think they stand up in a courtroom!

[Swafe]

Well Sony sells the PSP as portable video player, as well as a games console, which plays movies off the memory stick. So how do we make use of this great feature? Seeing as Sony don't sell DRM'ed movies like they do with their music (yet), ripping DVD's and recording TV shows (also technically illegal i think) is the only way to do it. There other players of course, some with software that actually does the DVD ripping for you without having to use third party software. With the PSP it's not so much of a requirement i agree, but it seems to be a feature that they are happy to promote and the only realistic way of using it is a bit of a grey area.

Maybe I'm not being clear with what i was asking though. My original post was not regarding the wrongs and rights of DRM, just the difficult position the Hexus forum mods must be in at times and how they go about figuring out what's liable for a lawsuit and what's not. Just how much of a threat is it? I mean, have hexus ever been contacted by any companies/law organisations regarding a thread on the forums? You must admit, the line of acceptability is fuzzy.

I just seems odd really. Odd in that one thread regarding ripping a disk it considered a no no, while other threads regarding the best software to make MP3's with is ok. I mean, 'technically' even using Itunes is illegal, no? Hexus even did an article on how to get itunes to work with a PSP. I know it comes down to what is concidered 'fair use', but if the thread mentioned above was not fair use, then what is Divx on a Zen Video player concidered? Do you see what i a getting at, or am i just rambling now?!!! My own personal view is that ripping DVD i legally own to play off my PC/portable is fair use, as is ripping my bought CD's for my MP3 player.

I must reiterate, this is not a criticism at all. The Hexus forums are they best and most fairly moderated forums i have ever used. I'm not asking for any threads to be locked or unlocked. I was just curious really and thanks for being such as such a great place to hang out I'm guessing with the goal posts constantly moving, it's just better to be safe than sorry at the end of the day.

Havnt got time to read your entire post right now as Im going out, I hope I got the right jist, the PSP can play movies from the memory card, so ripping should be allowed?

If thats your arguement, it doesnt allow legal ripping of DVDs, I think its merely for home movies (From digital camera, like the view your own pictures capability) And also possibly mpegs you can download from sites, like cats flying at walls which have no copywrite on them.

[TheAnimus]

which Sony products require you to RIP a DVD ? None spring to mind.

At the moment there aren't many media centres that are product by the "big name" suppliers. They are design'd to allow you to record and playback Video recorded from the TV tuners - ( does MCE 2005 allow Divx playback ? I assume newer versions will allow you to record to the hard drive in a DRM protected format . but that is possibly a way off.

Harmony based products (OpenMG) allow for SACD ripping.

The problem with DVD 'backups' is case history, a few people get away with it because judges let it slide, but with in general everyone should avoid it.

Its a very sticky subject, and i don't blame hexus at all for avoiding it.

[Spud1]

Datetime stamps in or on a file are so easily faked I would hate to think they stand up in a courtroom!

was just going to say that - they dont stand up in a court of law as its so simple to fake em