london buses

[spikegifted]

Originally posted by TeePee
Unfortunately you are in the minority. The vast majority of cyclists in London are a menace to themselves and others.

Just wondering if you actually cycle around in the center of London?? If you do, you'd notice that 90% of all cyclists (whether they go fast or slow) follow the law and all the trimmings that come with the Highway Code. Again, it is the remaining 10% that go and do stupid things at traffic lights and jumping on and off the pavement, etc.

As far as I'm concern, most of this 10% of renegades are not that good cyclists and they strive to 'beat the traffic' by relying on the breaking the laws that govern the etiquette of road usage. Whether they're on the bike or in the car, they're going to behave like jerks.

[spikegifted]

Originally posted by Bindibadgi
To be honest there's no way in hell id cycle on a busy road, ill always go on the pavement unless its packed with people. The roads in this country are too packed and not designed for bikes and for drivers i can understand its like trying to avoid a pedestrian on speed.

The pavement (or sidewalk, if you prefer US lingo) is never designed to accommodate bicycles. Please never let me see you on your bike on the pavement...

[shiato storm]

actually I would class myself in the higher end of that 90%...primarily because I don't want to end up pasted onto the front side of a bus - oh wait, I almost was...!
so how the hell do we as bikers - IN THE RIGHT (as I was in this particular situation) get to say whats wrong? because 9 times out of ten when an arsey driver hits a cyclist there isn't anyone left to make a complaint.
what I think happened in my case was that when I was in front of this bus the driver became impatient and thus over took me, but realising he had to stop started to pull in - and wondered why I collided with the side of his [beloved] bus and I was angry at him...!! go figure.

[TeePee]

I'd say 10% at the very most stop at traffic lights, for example. I've never cycled in London, and I never would, but I drive and ride a motorcycle (and I'm one of the minority of sensible motorcyclists) into town every day. It is rare for me to see a cyclist stop at a red light. I agree with you that you were entirely in the right and the bus driver should get everything he deserves. Especially since this wasn't really an 'accident' since he had to have seen you.

[spikegifted]

Originally posted by TeePee
I'd say 10% at the very most stop at traffic lights, for example. I've never cycled in London, and I never would, but I drive and ride a motorcycle (and I'm one of the minority of sensible motorcyclists) into town every day. It is rare for me to see a cyclist stop at a red light.

What you've said is entirely consistent with people who don't ride a bike in London - you don't notice the good cyclists. All you care to point out are the ones who break the rules, but not those who observe them. That's like saying all Moscovite drivers are crazy and drive on the pavement in traffic jams, but it's completely untrue, because only half of them do.

[TeePee]

In that case, since you don't drive a bus in London, how can you criticise bus drivers, just because you met a bad one?

[spikegifted]

Originally posted by TeePee
In that case, since you don't drive a bus in London, how can you criticise bus drivers, just because you met a bad one?

Eh... Hmmm... I don't seem to recall complaining about buses and bus drivers...

[shiato storm]

nope but I did...

my point is that the majority of bus drivers - in london - are not fully aware of their surroundings and fellow road users and appear to pull out into traffic with blatent disregard knowing that an act was passed that said that the buses have right of way (or 'give way to the bus' i think its called), and that many bus drivers abuse this...
also true is that cyclists are often struck by carelss drivers, of which there are many in this town, and that invariably they will be the ones coming out with a hole in the head as some rich "see you next tuesday" sits there in their oversized mercedes benz...

-i'll add to that point a little-

i am frequently frustrated by inept london drivers that fit a particular stereotype - you may or may not be offended by what I'm about to say but there you go - these regular annoyancies are small asian/middle eastern women who can hardly see over their steering wheels through their silly yashmack things (god knows why they wear all that ridiculaous get-up in this country anyway...) and drive hideously big cars (such as merc's) and clearly are utterly unaware of their situation in any shape or form. they drive around in such a dosey manner its a wonder who lets them drive in the first place!!

I have claimed the lives of three wing mirrors from such drivers, and delivered satisfying dents to other unwitting goons. they are marked on the side of my bike as would a WW2 pilot who has downed the enemy.

[Anders]

I did not say I ride on the pavement. I do not ride anywhere anymore because it just too dodgy. “Spikegifted”, you don’t agree with my point that there is significantly less danger of a fatality or serious injury between a pedestrian and a cyclist than between a cyclist and car?

I can understand that riding on the pavement in rush hour London is not practical. However the majority of people do not live in London. If I could ride on the pavement in my town it would be safer IMO and I would be a lot fitter because I would actually use my expensive bike. What we really need are more cycle lanes. Unfortunately Satan will be skating to work before we get a decent amount.

Indeed “TeePee”, I’m not sure any road incident is actually truly an accident, since someone is normally at fault, e.g. skid on ice = should have been going slower.

[shiato storm]

yes and the more cycle lanes 'they' build the more spaces cars have for parking in...

[Anders]

Originally posted by shiato storm
yes and the more cycle lanes 'they' build the more spaces cars have for parking in...

Well indeed. Although when I was at University in Leeds I do not remember seeing anyone parked on the few cycle lanes there where.

I cannot believe that with all these stories of ‘over-zealous’ traffic wardens on the news that people parking on cycle lanes do not get tickets. Maybe that is just a reflection on how sensationalist the news in this country often is, or perhaps the traffic wardens are not doing their jobs? I am of course assuming it is illegal to park on cycle lanes. There might be some crazy old law that allows it.

[shiato storm]

it is illegal to park in cycle lanes.
if you want a good example of parking in cycle lanes - go round london for a day...

[spikegifted]

Originally posted by Anders
I did not say I ride on the pavement. I do not ride anywhere anymore because it just too dodgy. “Spikegifted”, you don’t agree with my point that there is significantly less danger of a fatality or serious injury between a pedestrian and a cyclist than between a cyclist and car?

That's depends on your definition of 'danger'... Over the years, two of people who've cause me a lot of grieve have received hospital treatment after they 'accidentally' stepped in front of my bike - one had bruised ribs and the other had a fractured finger. I, on the other hand, had the pleasure of receiving nasty gashes on my knees, my elbows and some rather juicy road marking on my lower leg and my bum. Guess what, one didn't look before she jumped off the back of bus ('RouteMaster') and the other didn't look before he jay-walked in front of me...

[spikegifted]

Originally posted by shiato storm
it is illegal to park in cycle lanes.
if you want a good example of parking in cycle lanes - go round london for a day...

We need about 10 times more traffic wardens and they need to have far more power in issuing tickets - not just parking tickets, but driving offenses!! There should be no appeal! If they give you a ticket, you have to take it in the chin (and the wallet). If you don't like it don't do stupid things again. If you beat them up or abuse them, you get another ticket and an arrest warrant for assult.

[TeePee]

Pedestrains actually do have automatic right of way anywhere on the roads. If you hit one, it's automatically your fault unless they were being negligent (which it sounds like they were in your case). The reason is, we all have 'The right to cross and recross the queens highway' (but not, it appears, to stand still).

On Friday when If I have some free (paid) time, I'll record a set of traffic lights, and prove my point by statistical analysis.

[DaBeeeenster]

Originally posted by TeePee
I'd say 10% at the very most stop at traffic lights, for example. I've never cycled in London, and I never would, but I drive and ride a motorcycle (and I'm one of the minority of sensible motorcyclists) into town every day. It is rare for me to see a cyclist stop at a red light. I agree with you that you were entirely in the right and the bus driver should get everything he deserves. Especially since this wasn't really an 'accident' since he had to have seen you.

I agree with this. I've cycled a lot in the center of London (mainly City, West End and around Farringdon) and I have to say most people dont stop at lights. Well, most couriers dont, and that's most of the cyclists in the center of London during the day.

I used to go through read lights (in quiet roads) until I saw the mortality rates for cyclists in London. I stopped after that

Anyone parked in a bus or cycle lane when they are in effect should get 3 points, no argument. I used to get the bus a lot as well when I was living in the UK and the number of W****R drivers (normally in beemers) parked in bus or cycle lanes was absurd...3 points would stop them pretty smartish I would have thought.