NHS spending: What's your thoughts?

[Zak33]

This came to mind because of Vincent's excellent thread relating to NHS's masturbation website and Menthel's comments of money wasted in the NHS while patients suffer.

Lynni and I discussed this topic a year back, and it's worth opening again: Ready?

DO you think it would be a good idea to reduce spending on the multi million pound machines, the extensively expensive care that modern science has made available, and in exchange literally increase the volume of nurses, the one on one nursing, the time nurses had to clean and wash, the janitory services (which I have seen first hand as being frankly rank in some hosiptals) and the food served to ill patients?

The way I am seeing it right now, particularly n site of the recent case of a woman asking for cancer treatment that had been refused by local medical authroity on cost grounds, we overspend on vast sums of money for small improvements for a few people, while vast quantities of other patients spend a week in hospital and literally lose weight, and often come out more unwell than on entering.

Everyone must know someone who has known an MRSA sufferer. I have known two, and one died and the other was in hospital for a vastly longer time than first thought, all costing huge sums of dough, because he caught the super bug and became massively ill.

What do you think?

[noah]

its an interesting point. its almost like running before we can walk, you kinda need to sort out the basic issues before you start playing with fancy machines.

on the other hand if we want to continue to progress technically we need to use the technology available.

mrsa is a big issue but it comes from doctors over prescribing anitbiotics and patients not taking their full course of medication as well as cleanliness, it would be nice to se an improvement in all of the above.

[menthel]

The problem is that healthcare is just so damn expensive. The drug companies come up with some great drugs that often now cost billions to create, so this is passed on to the health system, as with this new breast cancer drug. Money is wasted all over the place, for example on locum doctors, working in one place for a long time, so that instead of paying a normal contract they get £30 or £40 an hour. There are also too many stupid 'iniatives' that are supposed to make the 'client experience' more comfortable, whereas the money would be better spent elsewhere. Like keeping the wards clean or buying simple things like ophthalmoscopes tht work so that we can try and do our job properly. I could go on, but its the weekend and I am trying to relax. And perhaps think of another career, where despite years of training and working my fat, hairy bottom off, that people respect me and treat me well, rather than a commodity to be flogged until I drop. Eek! That got me overexcited. Soz.

[Zak33]

Menthel..I feel for youmatey..I really do.

Its the way its organised...the basics are a mile off the mark.

The condition of the toilets in the Hospital I visited was nowthing short of horrible...and people with open wounds were having to use them.

[BUFF]

I have several friends that work in the NHS (phsyios, doctors etc.) & I hear stories all the time of multi-million £ equipment that sits idle because they don't have/can't afford the staff to run them.

I also hear other stories that strongly suggest that a lot of the money chucked at the NHS is wasted.

Plus, there is no doubt that expectations in the community have risen over the years (e.g.how many hip replacements were done 30 years ago & how many last year) & also the fact that people are on average living longer must have an effect too.

imo doing fewer things but better would be an improvement.

[Butuz]

I also hear other stories that strongly suggest that a lot of the money chucked at the NHS is wasted.

Most of the money that is thrown into the NHS gets frittered away in a hail of lower, middle, senior managment. There are more Cheifs than Injuns!

Very little actually gets down to where it's needed in each hostipital, its all absorbed.

Butuz

[0iD]

Don't get me started on the chuffin NH bleedin S! Marrried to a nurse
Bloody Chancellor & Health Minister are 'strongly suggesting' to the nurses pay review board that they get a below inflation rise this year! wtf! seeing as they have in the past got staged pay awards, which is a bit of a cheek! Here in Suffolk they've closed all the community hospitals, the week befor the health minister announces that she wants more community lead care...how does that work?
And another thing, remember the big nurse recruitment drive of recent years? well a lot of those nurses are nos stacking shelves in supermarkets & doing bar work as there are no jobs to go to. The various health authoritie have employed far too many foreign (and dare I say without sounding racisit or xenophobic) underqualified staff so there are no places for newly qualified nurses.
And as for the postcode lottery for various treatments...gah, i'm stopping before I go apoplectic!

[vincent]

welll i get a different view of it cos i live with oen NHS nurse and a drugs counciler from a former NHS nurse......

at me local Infirmary - the father of the family i live with he works for The Infirmary but only now part time cos of workign for a Practice -He used to hate doing nights- the point is that you get those morons who just wanna get too plastered and act the fool and end up in some clumsy obscurity..... also after around 3AM tis pretty hectic.....pretty surprising...

other than that i do agree with less funding on "bigger and better" -but its like say if i my stomach problems turned into alot worse..... say if it developed into a Stomach Ulcer....

i would actaully have to go to Manchester Hospital rather than the rochdale one because they dont do Gastrophy at my local Infirmary/Hospital......

This is a alot of big deal cos this is where all that moaning about "place being over filled" comes in...

IF all hospitals where al lthe same with the most 15 common subjects of surgery such as Maternity Coronary etc..... then we wouldnt have the trouble of transfers and bedding space...

Also it's like any other Government ran thing- they waste money -you want a prime example- Sports Minister invested WAYYY too much money in the Millenuim Dome- all the hype it got...sponsurship with Tescos- in the end they ripped it down.......

Morons....

[Rave]

I don't really know what to say here....other than write to your MP.

In 1988 I had my first operation- I watched the Seoul Olympics from my hospital bed having had my head cut open to sort out an ear infection that was close to turning into Meningitis. Two operations and 10 days later I was out.

Three and a half years later I was back in, and they sawed my head open again. Aged 12 1/2 my recovery was a bit quicker and I walked out after about three days.

However, look at me straight on now and it's obvious that my left ear sits closer to my head than my right ear. Speak to me for more than a second and you're likely to get the impression that I have a facial palsy- because I speak out of the side of my mouth that I can hear out of. My surgeons didn't cut any of my facial nerves at all, but I still look freaky. I suspect that's my fault for not asking for a hearing aid.

Anyway- the point I want to make is that the NHS helps literally hundreds of thousands of people who would have suffered and/or died in the 1930s....so please do continue to moan loudly about the money wastage and crap service- but don't ever forget how lucky we are. Because the NHS saved my life.

I think Aneurin Bevin would turn over in his grave if he were to witness the state of today's NHS.

[BUFF]

Anyway- the point I want to make is that the NHS helps literally hundreds of thousands of people who would have suffered and/or died in the 1930s....so please do continue to moan loudly about the money wastage and crap service- but don't ever forget how lucky we are.

Absolutely & I for 1 am certainly not suggesting doing away with it.
However, there are obviously major problems that can't be resolved just by chucking more cash at it & much as we may want it to it can't be all things to all people.

[menthel]

The NHS is fantastic for important things, despite the efforts of the managers and politicians. If its life saving then you can't do better than the NHS, but if you are 'merely' suffering then the services are being destroyed. The doctors and nurses who do all of this are facing a terrible, uphill battle that is making some of us want to get the hell out.

[Steven W]

If the goverment gave us all the details about all the natural medicines that they completely ignore, due to government -onvolved companies like Glaxo SmithKline making hideous amounts of money from medicines.

I used to have migraines, I could have gone to the doctors and been prescribed migraine tablets which I woud have paid for every month of my life.

Instead I bought some chinese leaves to be drank in a tea, it cleared up within a 4 week period. If they should stop dismissing natural medicines and alternative therapy, like acupuncture, then we'd free up much needed resources for those sicker patients using the NHS.

However, I've had nothing but great service from the NHS over the years.

[badass]

My mother explained to me what Herceptin is about. It is very expensive to make and costs £30,000 per year to supply a patient with the drug. However it is a proper wonder drug. The survival rates increase by 50% for users.
The only reason the NHS do not supply the drug is because NICE have not updated their guidelines so they dont have to supply it. They are saving money untill the guidelines are updated, when they will have to supply it.

On the points raised in the first post, We do not need to cut back on th expensive care to save enough money to do what you suggest. Just get rid of the waste of time busy bodies from the top (politicians) down. Remove the b0llocks ttargets so they dont have to employ people to manipulate the figures to show how they met targets etc.
Stop trying to make the NHS convenient. People are more demanding of a free service than they are of one they pay for FFS. If someone has to pay to get advice from a lawyer, they will see them during businedd hours and take the time off work if necessary, yet they expect GP's to be at their every beck and call
Tell people that dont like it to buy private medical insurance if they dont like it.

[RedPutty]

Tell people that dont like it to buy private medical insurance if they dont like it.

The problem with that is we have to pay for the NHS , you can't put that money towards private healthcare.

[shiato storm]

i'v not read all this thread but I think that there are several faults that need to be addressed;
nurses - and their well being, and give them more money! these awesome people work tirelessly for others and get a comparitive pitance...
cleanliness of hospitals - went ot visit someone the other week who'd just had a quad heart by-pass, two doors down a room was filled to the ceiling! with rubbish bags, it Stunk very bad. disgraceful. MRSA? looked like no one could give a toss. and the guy who came along to get rid of the bin bags? a huge fat filthy sweaty man, gloves? yah, like thats going to happen. I can tell you I squirted tons of that alcohol gel all over my hands several times whilst I was there. took a shower when I got home. no joke, it was horrendous! cleaners need to take more pride in their work, if not sack them fr someone who will.
private vs national health - i'm on private but i do see the gp occasionally. the system in France is along the lines of no national health, you pay for the service BUT you get the money back through some refund/return thingy. this not only saves tons of money but also all those GP hours wasted - as in the UK - just doesn't happen. the incentive is to go and pay or just not waste everyone's time. it works, but then france is a socio-fascist place anyway and if it didn't work they'd extradite the wrong-doers...

super hospitals - big bad idea right from the word go.

privatisation of hospitals -bad idea

hospital 'managers' - bad idea.

nhs is a shambles and the ones that have the chance to improve it appear to be doing a pretty good job of ramming the cr*p out of anything worthwhile.

[iranu]

Most of the money that is thrown into the NHS gets frittered away in a hail of lower, middle, senior managment. There are more Cheifs than Injuns!

Very little actually gets down to where it's needed in each hostipital, its all absorbed.

Hit the nail on the head with that comment. Until there is a change in culture with regards to the management of the NHS then we will always see a very little value for money. No private organisation would survive if it was run like the NHS.

We do actually get a reasonable service mainly due to the dedication and professionalism exhibited by those that are doing the caring i.e. Nurses and doctors, midwives etc. However, it could be so much better bearing in mind the amount of money that has been hosed at the NHS and the poor management of that money. Unfortunately this government thinks that money and targets make for an efficient and good service, however they don't realise that central control (financial or otherwise) is not very good at solving practical real world problems. The NHS is a political football and until politics is removed from the decision making process we will continue to have an expensive, poorly administered health service.

Bloody Chancellor & Health Minister are 'strongly suggesting' to the nurses pay review board that they get a below inflation rise this year! wtf! seeing as they have in the past got staged pay awards, which is a bit of a cheek!

British nurse's pay is only bettered by those in the US and Australia now. And it's about time that nurses had decent pay and a rise inline with inflation. The problem is that the money has now run out and the easiest way is to cut staff and their pay - better to get rid of a few nurses or cut their pay than the middle management administrators is the sad state of affairs.