Online Poker, is it rigged?

[GDVS]

The trick is to spot these players and milk them

I fixed it for you

[Dav0s]

tbh i only play poker for the social aspect, a few beers with mates, usually end up losing money but hey who cares. online poker just loses the fun aspect imo

[Steven W]

I've played quite a lot of online poker and have won more than I've lost, however the system seems pretty easy to exploit.

For example, a group of friends in the same poker room with MSN, Skype running. You could even fill a room with some friends over Xbox live - headsets plugged in revealing each other's cards. It's pretty easy to pass money around and bully people out of pots - you then split the money accumulated at the end.

I've not done this but I've heard about it.

I use this as a rule in online poker : If you lose five hands in a row quit that game and join another table - or quit if the action doesn't feel right.

The best way I've found of winning money is in the 1 vs 1 games.

[Spud1]

The best way I've found of winning money is in the 1 vs 1 games.

Yeah 1 on 1 is a good way to win, fast games which if you have the right opponent are easy to take with a bit of bullying

[TheAnimus]

thing is with online poker how many players will be using poker bots to help them do all the statistics (card counting).

often it depends a lot on the deck, some people use an idea like:

Cards CardStack[];

then they push them on in a randomised order.

Upshot of which, its actually possible to count the cards quite well on a lot of online poker sites...... aparently.

[javalord]

I'm not sure how much weight this carries but I remember a poker site having its logs analysed for 1 months worth of data to find they were giving a high ratio of pay to play. The external entity was Meryl Lynch.

And I highly doubt they're pushing this all onto the random function of a standard .net framework etc. It has been tweaked to deliver a certain rate.

[GDVS]

Upshot of which, its actually possible to count the cards quite well on a lot of online poker sites...... aparently.

Not true, the virtual deck is shuffled after every hand.

[TheAnimus]

that depends on the site.

problem is there are a lot of maths students who spend a lot of time working on card counting systems!

[GDVS]

I'm not sure how much weight this carries but I remember a poker site having its logs analysed for 1 months worth of data to find they were giving a high ratio of pay to play. The external entity was Meryl Lynch.

Source please.

And I highly doubt they're pushing this all onto the random function of a standard .net framework etc. It has been tweaked to deliver a certain rate.

The algorithms used for random number generation on poker sites are pretty extreme, often they use hardware RNGs using thermal noise as a source of entropy. The hand distributions on every reputable site I've ever played have been bang on (over a long enough time period obviously, one session is statistical noise).

The bottom line is that online poker sites don't need to cheat, a busy poker site is a goldmine and even a sniff of confirmed dubious activity would leave the place a ghost town.

[GDVS]

that depends on the site.

I'm not aware of any site that doesn't shuffle after every hand.

problem is there are a lot of maths students who spend a lot of time working on card counting systems!

Counting cards is more of a blackjack thing, that's where the money is if you're into heavy maths and low(ish) risk.

[Dav0s]

isnt card counting just blackjack?

edit, didnt read above post

[Merlin4458]

ive done the whole blackjack thing, at no other than monte carlo. Tbh that is even more dodgy, all u need to know is if the dealer hits a 10 or a royal with first card 9/10 he will hit another... Something wasnt right there..

[Spud1]

Unless I am missing something, card counting wouldnt work in Texas Holdem if the pack is shuffled after every hand...

you only know the identity of 7 cards per hand, and only 2 of those are your secret...so I don't see how it's possible. Unless of course you know what cards someone else folded, then its a different situation, but any good player will have it set to auto-hide cards on fold. Those that don't tend to be showoffs and it's their own fault for giving you the extra free info

[javalord]

Source please.

The algorithms used for random number generation on poker sites are pretty extreme, often they use hardware RNGs using thermal noise as a source of entropy. The hand distributions on every reputable site I've ever played have been bang on (over a long enough time period obviously, one session is statistical noise).

The bottom line is that online poker sites don't need to cheat, a busy poker site is a goldmine and even a sniff of confirmed dubious activity would leave the place a ghost town.

I think the poker page I visited was on my laptop, will have a look later, cant seem to find it on google. RNGs = Random Number Generator?

[Steven W]

Card counting has become tougher and tougher, mnost casinos usually use 4 decks, with some using 6 for Blackjack. When I started out as a BJ dealer there were only two decks and card counting was a regular occurence.

In Hold-em you'd have to be a card counting genius.

There's plenty of software programmes that will calculate the odds of your hand winning after the turn of each, but due to the short space of time you have to make up your mind online, I can't see that method being particularly advantageous.

I agree that I don't think it's the poker sites who are cheating as they don't need to, it's the other 'real' players you need to watch. If you notice any strange behavioural patterns - like two or more people constantly betting against each other - it's a safe bet to get out.

[Merlin4458]

beginning to agree with what is said above. If im goig to play anymore money poker online im going to be using the holdem calculators. yes u may think well thats cheating, but if im getting "cheated" out of hands by players using these techniques then i dont think it is. I enjoy the game too much too jsut let it slide, and there are no real life games apart from with mates, unless u wanna go to central london and the stakes are way too high..

Oh im 21 today im a big boy now