Who owes what to who and why?

[Clunk]

Sorry, partly another NTL rant...

After speaking to the retentions dept to cancel my account, they offered me a good deal and i took it about 3 months back (10meg, family tv package, phone, free calls etc for £34.50), but since then, i havent had a bill that has been anywhere near correct, anyway, to cut a long story short, i managed to get £116 of charges credited to my account, but then...

on monday, NTL tried to take £30 out of my account by direct debit. i didnt owe them anything, in fact they owed me £116. this unexpected £30 direct debit took me overdrawn and my bank slapped a £30 referall fee on it...great. then i get a call from an answering machine at NTL saying that i was going to incurr a £10 late payment fee, so as you can imagine, by this time, i was flaming fuming, and to top it all, i checked my bank and 3 other small direct debits, each for a couple of pounds each, had also been bounced because now there wasnt enough funds in...its like a kind of domino effect, the less you have, the more they take. so now im £120 out of pocket and theres still a few direct debits left to come out this week

NTL were apologetic, they even refunded my £30 charges, but Barclays werent so nice, they said they could refund the money for the direct debit that NTL took, but not any of the referal charges. i said hang on a sec, you are punishing me, for an error made by NTL, on a direct debit that Barclays are supposed to look after? they said yes, thats right. i asked why i had to also pay the other £60 of charges that wouldnt have happened if NTL hadnt cocked up in the first place, they said that its not their fault, its NTL's fault and that i should take it up with them....so i did, and guess what, they said i should take it up with my bank.

so if anyone decides to read this all the way through, who is responsible for the outstanding money here? I find it hard to accept that the bank will be able to take the money back from NTL for the direct debit, that they know was taken in error, but they wont refund me the charges they took because of it.

grrrr.

[RufusA]

Not sure if this should be in the Bargain thread but WTH.

My take on this is that there are two separate issues:

1) NTL have taken money they shouldn't. They've refunded it, and covered your immediate bank charges. IMHO whilst legally there may be some grounds for consequential loss it's difficult to attribute everything to them.

2) Barclays have excessive fees and penalties for going overdrawn. I would suggest you arrange a small overdraft to cover the coming direct debits (should be able to do this over the phone for minimal charge), then perhaps attempt to recover some of the punitive costs. Info on doing this is here.

I've had problems with the charges domino effect at HSBC, but being a 10 years+ customer, and having polite but firm words with them resulted in them refunding all of the charges less the original first overdrawn fee.

HTH - Rufus.

[Clunk]

oops should have been in the general sorry, could someone shift it please

[Clunk]

Not sure if this should be in the Bargain thread but WTH.

My take on this is that there are two separate issues:

1) NTL have taken money they shouldn't. They've refunded it, and covered your immediate bank charges. IMHO whilst legally there may be some grounds for consequential loss it's difficult to attribute everything to them.

2) Barclays have excessive fees and penalties for going overdrawn. I would suggest you arrange a small overdraft to cover the coming direct debits (should be able to do this over the phone for minimal charge), then perhaps attempt to recover some of the punitive costs. Info on doing this is here.

I've had problems with the charges domino effect at HSBC, but being a 10 years+ customer, and having polite but firm words with them resulted in them refunding all of the charges less the original first overdrawn fee.

HTH - Rufus.

Thanks,

ironically, it was the monthly overdraft charges of £4 that was second in line in the domino effect after the initial NTL payment.

I am more curious to find out who actually is responsible for the money. The bank says NTL, NTL say the bank, and i think its down to both of them as NONE of it is my fault!

ill give them a call again when im more calm

[Ferral]

Got the exact same problem with 3. They tried to take my direct debit 4 times two weeks before its due date leaving me with £120 in charges from the building society.

Building Society will remove the charges, however I personally don't see why they should when it is 3's fault for trying to take money 2 weeks before its due date. Contacted 3 about it and I have the direct debit instructions and dates etc so sending those details into them and they will refund any charges apparently.

[Stoo]

Those charges are technically unlawful, and you can get them refunded, directly from the bank, there's a thing somewhere around here for the exact process..

Edit: found it: linky

[koocha]

Isn't it covered by the bank under the direct debit guarantee?

The direct debit guarantee applies to all banks and building societies taking part in the direct debit scheme. It says that:


If there is a change in the amount to be paid or the payment date, the person receiving the payment (the originator) must notify the customer in advance.
If the originator or the bank/building society makes an error, the customer is guaranteed a full and immediate refund of the amount paid.
Customers can cancel a direct debit at any time by writing to their bank or building society.

[Clunk]

thanks chaps,

koocha, yes the bank are refunding me the money that was taken by direct debit (£30), NTL have also given me £30 and they said that that was "towards any bank charges that you may have incurred", so i think thats it as far as the direct debit rules are concerned, so if i accept the £30 direct debit + £30 compensation from NTL, and then £30 back from the direct debit from the bank, ill still be £30 out of pocket and through no fault of my own, and i will have had to be slightly dishonest in the process.

stoo, thanks, i was hoping it wouldnt have to go that far, but i really dont want to let this one go as i feel like i have been stolen from, even though its only £30. ill try again in the morning.

cheers

[jnm21]

You won't get the NTL 30+30 then the DD 30 - the first 30 from NTL is in place of the DD refund.

As said above, the charges are widely thought to be illegal - check out the links above.

I had a similar situation with NTL & just the other day with Vodafone.

Basically in both cases they wanted to bill me for a full final month when it should have been less, then refund it at their leisure - NTL wanted to post me a <&#163;3 cheque - told them to stuff it & secure messaged Nationwide to reverse DD. Vodafone wanted to refund it in 7-10 days - same action.

In any case, the refund is meant to be done with an effective date of the withdrawal date. In your case, if Barclay's software was clever enough, it may refund the fees. If not, you're back to the illegal nature of the charges.

[daveham]

Please do not use this forum to accuse NTL of fraud based on minimal facts. It is almost certain that this is a mistake, not a deliberate attempt to defraud.

Comments such as this reflect badly on Hexus as a company as people who read it will associate these comments with Hexus.

Please read the rules before posting.

[piggeh]

I think you should read those consumeractiongroup pages carefully. You may as well go about reclaiming ALL your bank charges whilst you're at it, as it sounds like you could have been paying them for a while?

As for NTL, cancel the DD, and then make sure the next invoice/credit they send you, is for the right amount (ie a credit amount). If it isn't what you agree, send it back and explain why (probably recorded delivery, and keep a copy). If necessary send it to the manager and maybe CC in trading standards for good measure.

[Clunk]

Please do not use this forum to accuse NTL of fraud based on minimal facts. It is almost certain that this is a mistake, not a deliberate attempt to defraud.

Comments such as this reflect badly on Hexus as a company as people who read it will associate these comments with Hexus.

Please read the rules before posting.

who are you on about daveham? did someones post get deleted or something?

[daveham]

who are you on about daveham? did someones post get deleted or something?

yes....a post got deleted....no probs with yours.....

[chuckskull]

Had this happen a couple of times. A solicitors letter fixed everything very quickly both times.

No beating around the bush, straight in there with the bigs guns and get it sorted

Usually the company covers the bad charge and the bank/direct bedit sorts te rest. I recently switched to HSBC, had something similar happen with paypal, they were very helpful, didn't even need a solicitor.

Paypal locked my account though

[amdavies]

Apologies.

[G4Z]

I had this happen to me back when I was a student. I got the cash refunded by going in to talk to a personal banker, I explained the problem and politley advised her that I would be one unhappy customer and looking to switch to a rival if they didnt refund it.

They refunded it, bank was barclays.