GTX 560 Ti x2 SLI or GTX 580

[billythewiz]

Hi,

I have a sad old system and so I'm looking at getting a Scan 3XS system. The two I'm looking at come with either two GTX 560 Ti's SLI'd or a single GTX 580.

I guess my first question is which of these is the best, the SLI system at £397 or the 580 card at £431 ?

I currently have a 24in 1920x1080 monitor and was hoping to be able to play COD/BO as well as the games coming out this year.

I can't help feeling that £400 is just too much to be spending. I currently have a GTX 460 and wonder if I'd be better off SLIing that and saving the money for a later upgrade of perhaps a (bigger) SSD.

The two systems I've been looking at are the Performance and the Vengence.

What would you go for ?

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

What is the specification of your old system??

[Jasp]

Is your 460 not up to the task? reason I say is people are playing Crysis 2 on max settings with them & COD/BO is quite a old game now.

[billythewiz]

CAT my system should now be viewable. Basically it's a 5 year old Athlon 64 3700, socket 939 system.

Jasp, I'm happy with the 460 (not had it long), but despite the card my system is unable to run COD/BO and as far as I can tell it's because I'm running a single core system.

I've been thinking about upgrading my 5 year old system for about 3 years .

I know I should probably just upgrade the guts but I just don't feel like it. Ive built my last 3 system (2 complete builds + 1 mobo/cpu swap) and the inside of my case has always looked like a dogs breakfast and they've all sounded and felt like a hair dryer on full/hot

And in those days gone by I was time rich cash poor. Now I've got no time (+patience) but a little more money. So I thought I'd treat myself to a nice neat, hopefully not too noisy/hot system that will last a while.

But I feel a little uneasy spending £400 on graphics cards, especially without asking you guys first.

[Pob255]

If your happy with your gtx460 and you're going to buy a whole new system, then I'd probably say go for a single gtx560, which is faster than a 460

I'd start off with the Performance system, change the graphics card to a single 560 and ask to replace the case with the lancool K60 instead of the k58
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/lian-...g-case-w-o-psu
They are the same case, it's just that the K58 is missing some fans.

[ik9000]

I know I should probably just upgrade the guts but I just don't feel like it. Ive built my last 3 system (2 complete builds + 1 mobo/cpu swap) and the inside of my case has always looked like a dogs breakfast and they've all sounded and felt like a hair dryer on full/hot

And in those days gone by I was time rich cash poor. Now I've got no time (+patience) but a little more money. So I thought I'd treat myself to a nice neat, hopefully not too noisy/hot system that will last a while.

But I feel a little uneasy spending £400 on graphics cards, especially without asking you guys first.

I've taken to building my own systems now precisely cos I got fed up of certain system builders' pre-assembled branded rigs sounding like they were revving up for take off/being massively limited in upgradability/tweakability. It's not the building your own system that made it noisy, it's the components you chose. But when you build your own you can choose these. Not so with off-the-shelf systems (generally). Branded pre-assembled system builders, if they're going for competing on cost grounds, will look to save money where possible. The headlines will say things like i7-2500k, GTX560, 4GB ram etc, but if you're not careful you end up with cut-corners inside that you only find out about when you open the case. From a selection of machines I've owned/regularly used from 3-4 manufacturers (non of which were Scan3XS I hasten to add) I've experienced:

Being given the cheapest, rubbishiest, noisiest fans and CPU cooler possibly in the world ever. That thing on idle was enough to prevent you watching TV if the machine was on in the same room.

Customised motherboard, cut down versions with limited expandibility. Only 2 RAM slots, limited IDE/SATA headers (with no spare SATA headers) etc

Bespoke CPU coolers that make changing them well nigh impossible unless you also change/mod the case

Customised case layouts which limit GPU card length - assuming the supplied PSU would stretch to any extra anyway - but it's been spec'd to just give enough capacity for the as-supplied set-up so no joy there.

Weird fan configurations that ramp-up LOUD on start-up only to throttle back when the bios catches up...

... but the bios is bespoke and locked-down so you can't actually change that much (similar problems with HP)

customised drive bay chassis that renders fitting antivibration screws/washers impossible, just for that case-rattling fun....

oh and that graphics card they mention - what brand is that? Will it come with a proprietary custom cooler and custom software? Forget it. Standard stock cooler then? Maybe if you're lucky. Own-brand take on the cooler? Quite possibly - and not always with great success. And look out for the case being limited to low-profile cards too, just to make replacing it even more difficult.

What RAM are they supplying? Branded or unbranded? Speed, CAS, heatspreader? Not all suppliers are up-front about this. And it can make a huge difference to the stability of the system.

I'm not saying all system builders are bad, and some will do genuinely good jobs of supplying decent kit throughout their systems. Just sometimes, even the big names can sell you something cheap but more limited than if you'd gone the DIY route. So now I go for one weekend of assembly and software loading for the complete control of all components and avoidance of preinstalled bloatware....

If only I could do the same for a laptop....

edit: I guess if you can find a system builder who'll let you specify every last item down to the cable quality and the fan anti-vibration mounts, CPU thermal paste, and the like, and who'll then assemble it for you, they will be something to consider. But can they do it for less than you'd pay? Possibly given economies of scale and VAT/tax considerations. Be interesting to see. Also who gets the component warranty protection in that situation?

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

If only I could do the same for a laptop....

There are barebone laptops.

[billythewiz]

ik thanks for your (very long post). Your description reminds me of an old "Tiny Computers" system that my parents had. It was nice and cheap but when I opened it up it had no empty slots (of any kind) and only a 150 Watt PSU !!

Your points are all valid, especially the ones about after market coolers and fans. My last build was right at the end of the phase when Intel and AMD still believed you had to pump more power into a CPU to get more Hz, to get faster. Ever since then consumers have been after cooler and quieter kit and everything has improved.

I certainly wouldn't consider the kind of mass produced, corner cutting system nightmare that you describe, but a Scan 3XS system seems a lot like a self build but without all the hassle. Your question about who gets the warranties is interesting (something I'd not considered). There's also a post in the Scan forums asking if you get all the cables (etc.), if you buy a 3XS system.

Having said that you've now made me feel guilty and lazy
Perhaps I should compromise and go for a 3XS OC Bundle, suffer my existing case and awful cable management and have fun with a 2nd (SLI) 480 GTX. SLI is the reason why I originally bought a 600W PSU 5 years ago !! (It was on the PCPro 'A' list at the time).

I wonder if a 5 year old PSU is a good idea with £450 of Sandy Bridge and Mobo along with £350 of SLIed graphics cards. If I replace that as well I might as well get a nice new case and there I am back getting a whole new system.

I need some wisdom

[ik9000]

sorry mate, spent all mine on that last post... plus wouldn't want to get another whip cracked at me... Nah, just kidding - sorry it was so long, hadn't realised how much I'd typed.

psu will degrade with time, not always massively, but efficiency will drop and sometimes its components start to age and stability of output can worsen. Mainly a problem if you want to overclock. It's also not unknown for a PSU to suddenly go bang - and even take out the innards of your machine with it in an electrical discharge frazzle-tazzle spectacular.*

Of course if you haven't used it then it won't have aged - but I'm presuming you have.

I think it's prob wisest to flog the PSU (I imagine someone will take it off your hands) and buy a new one. Unless you're on a shoestring...

...Not sure how much a protector between the PSU and other components costs. If not that much it could be a cheaper way to keep the old PSU and not risk the MOBO/GPU going up in smoke if the PSU goes bang one day. Not tried this approach so don't know the finer details of what it would involve.

*they literally do go bang too - was in the room when my colleague's PSU blew. Sounded like a gun shot/firecracker going off, and then the thing started smoking away. Ah, happy days.

[ik9000]

ik thanks for your (very long post).

hehe my initials sound "ick" . Hope I get knighted, then I can be Sik9000! "Pleased to meet you your majesty" on second thoughts... maybe not

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

A GTX460 1GB will still play many games well at 1680X1050 or 1920X1080. I would keep the card until you really need to upgrade. If you go for an SLI capable motherboard you can get another GTX460 1GB for around £120. Even with the extra cost of an SLI capable motherboard it would leave your around £200 towards a future graphics card upgrade.

A pair of GTX460 1GB cards is similar in performance to a GTX580 in many games:

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/314?vs=305

[billythewiz]

sorry it was so long, hadn't realised how much I'd typed.

Don't be sorry, I am genuinely grateful for your time and expertise. Plus I get annoyed when people complain that my posts are too long (on other forums).