I don't want to start a flamewar....in the whole Nvidia vs. ATI thing, I'm Switzerland, and when parting with my not so hard earned cash, I'm only interested in getting the most bang for my buck...
This is certainly a fascinating read, and in conjunction with other things I've heard about the two cards, has given me new direction when it comes to upgrade my GFX card...although that's not going to be for a while yet I think...
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=18029
Last edited by Stewart; 24-08-2004 at 11:05 AM.
sig removed by Zak33
Hi there
I spent 3 weeks researching the net and came to the same conclusion that article did.
1. an x800 is basically a radeon 9800 on steroids. Nothing new but beefed up with raw power
2. The reason the X800 is quite fast in present and older games is that the drivers are optimised for the 9800 already.As its based on the same tech fast performance gains for present.
3. the 6800 is brand new and drivers are stilll being optimized.
4. Both cards are mega fast but I got swayed to nvidia by the dual dvi function !As TFTS get cheaper u never know u might upgrade and want to keep your old one !
To add on this.Originally Posted by azrael1
A 9800 Pro has:
4 Vertex shaders
8 Pixel Pipelines
A memory clock of 340MHz (680MHz DDR)
GPU clock of 380MHz
Bog old standard DDR
An X800XT has:
6 Vertex shaders
16 Pixel pipelines
A memory clock of 560MHz (1120MHz DDR)
GPU clock of 520MHz
GDDR3
Also, iirc the X800 series has a different type of memory interface.
So over a 1GHz on the memory clock and double the amount of pixel pipelines i'd say its on steroids yeh
It's more a case of leapfrog if you ask me. Last round to ATI and this round to Nvidia so on and so forth. I'm not even convinced this round goes to Nvidia because noise and heat are factors that I will take into consideration when I come to purchase my next card. Nothing wrong with the x800xt performance in doom3 and the x800pro only has the 12 pipes so no big suprise that it underperforms the Nv 16 pipe cards. SLI and PCI-E aren't going to happen in my existing PC but it's certainly good for another AGP graphics card at some point in the future. When 16 pipes + 256mb hit the £150-180 mark I will upgrade and extend the use of my PC for 12-18 months. Who ever offers the best value at that time will get the money and I simply will not accept a noisy solution at any price.
Removed flamebait title.
Very interesting read.
Last edited by Stewart; 24-08-2004 at 02:51 PM.
Read that last night, it's an interesting article with a lot of valid points to make - but I think there's a couple of points which are overly stated - namely the doom3/source thing - I think it's a little pre-emptive to say that doom3 will dominate in terms of being used by developers, and in the same way there's that big OpenGL driver overhaul expected from ATi in september.
Secondly - on ATi being scared of SLI and having no answer - this doesn't really matter, the number of people with SLI setups is going to be comparable to those with P4EEs and FX-53s - I really don't think it's going to hurt them that much.
Thirdly - ATi not competing in the low-mid range area - well he said a lot about ATi not being able to deliver, which is interesting - I'd consider the 9800Pro midrange now, and the 9600/below to be low - and they're both good cards (superb card in the case of the 9800) - I'm really not convinced that ATi loses out in this area...although there's currently no ATi answer the the vanilla 6800.
He also doesn't mention the considerable brand loyalty that ATi has built up with retail consumers - especially in the enthusiast market - just look at these boards - we'll almost always recommend a 9800 Pro over a 5900XT, or an XT PE over a 6800u.
I thought he was spot on with the ps3.0 thing though - and I agree with him - it does seem very much as if Nvidia have won this round in the retail market (by how much is not yet clear) , but ATi's reputation due to R300 will see them through, much like nvidia's Ti4x00 series saved them from the disaster of the fx series.
Good stuff Byatt.
IBM - Not sure why you thought simply posting a link to a valid and interesting article was going to cause a flamewar; your unnecessary thread title might have done, but not the link to the article.
If it kills me, I'm going to prove that the members of this forum can debate the ATi \ Nvidia situation without resorting to mindless opinionated support of the card they happened to buy, I am also going to remove all references to the F word, unless completely justified.
You don't need to say 'I don't want to start a flamewar but...', No flame wars will be started by the posting of links to interesting articles, and anyone who arrives in this thread giving it 'ATi rulez Nvidia sucks!!11!!' or indeed 'Nvidia rules ATi sucks!!11!' will be removed before you can say Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis.
Just post the link, and expect adult, sensible discussion of the subject in hand. This is Hexus after all.
Last edited by Stewart; 24-08-2004 at 11:22 AM.
Hi Chaps as you all know by now im running my XFX 6800 Ultra now and its quite nice. Alot of people have complained about the noise. All I can say Is I dont really notice much difference sound wise with my 9800. Maybe heat would be an issue with lower quality £10 - £30 cases but its running fine. Any questions let me know.
Oh yeah I tested teh card on Far Cry, Doom 3, Homeworld 2 and its like playing brand new games due to the graphics difference !
I think Byatt has some good points, but my understanding is that SLI will be a feature of the mid-range nVidia cards as well as the high end stuff, in which case the situation I think changes rather. Buy your mid-range PCI-E card now, buy another later when you can afford it seems a sensible approach to take to upgrades etc...
I found it quite fun to go back to FarCry, and play the bits that used to crush my poor old TBred 2600+, 512mb Crucial DDR400, 9800XT, and slice through them like a hot knife through butter on my new rig.
Put that game in its place and no mistake.
Was fun turning everything up (volume included) for a few battles on the Rome: Total War demo as well. Seem like only Doom III is a match for the ATi \ Nvidia heavy hitters at the moment; max AA, max AF, 1600x1200, on the Ultra settings will still give any card a lot to think about.
I wonder how much power it actually takes to render pitch blackness? Must be quite a lot by the looks of it.
I can't hear my X800XT-PE over my case fans, but then there are 5 of them, going to cooling power rather than quietness.
OK, I'll open the batting.
Why I am very seriously considering buying a 6800GT over an X800:
1. it's a win-win situation - both of ATI's & nVidia's new cards are very close & a significant improvement over the previous generations.
2. Stereo glasses support - nVidia have it, ATI don't really & I have a pair of E-Dimensionals.
3. nVidia has had better OpenGL for games like Il-2 (there are rumours about ATI having a major overhaul of its OpenGL though).
4. Slightly cheaper here in the UK - 6800GT is ~£270, X800 Pro is ~£300
5. I can actually get my hands on a 6800GT - XT's are nowhere (although I could get a Pro VIVO & flash it )
6. Better Linux support - I wanted to have a play but everyone said "ATI card, have fun getting that to work with Linux" so I haven't tried Linux - yet.
7. I currently run 2x 9800 Pro's so this way I will have a foot in both camps
& that's without even considering which games are likely to licence the Doom3 engine etc.
Discuss the validity of the above arguments.
why i am seriously considering an nvidia rather than an ati:
about 3x as fast, in my os of choice.
simple, really.
That's a point I'd rather missed, to be honest - you could quite easily buy a 6800GT next feburary for ~£200 (along with another nvidia product - an SLI ready n-force 4) and then grab another one a year later to keep your system at high speed...in fact that sounds like a pretty damn good idea, so long as there's no issues with the two cards having to be absolutely identical.
Buff: all of those arguments are valid, which is why I'd say Nvidia have the lead at the mo - although this rumoured opengl driver overhaul could get ATi back into a better position...personally the main argument is price...I feel the x800pro should be priced identically or lower than the GT, with the vivo card being around the £300 mark - however, there's rumours of a £288 XT PE in bargain hunt...should possibly read that thread before posting it here though, hehe.
And considering the amount of whinging hexeh does about the ATi linux implementation, I'd guess that's one of the stronger points too.
Nvidia also get my vote
They have excellent drivers and support for Linux .... yes that "other" operating system thats out there apart from Windows ( oh heres where warp and OS/2 users whinge at me ).
As for the PCI express, Can you imagine the power of 2 x 6800 GT in an SLI configuration ... drool ; I'm sure that is enough power for playing HL2 and doom 3 wouldn't you ?
ATi have not announced anything about SLI but I expect they might be workign on some secret weapon, such is the advancement of the graphics market.
Nvidia also get my vote on the Chipsets as well - and I'm sure any owner of an Abit NF7-S will vouch for the soundstorms quality and power
Nvidia also seem to be clued up that more people are gonna be using linux in the future as well by the look of it
So, do this make me an Nvidia fanboy ? nopeI do have an 9800 AIW in a system at home which does its job, and it does it good.
SHOCK NEWS!!!
ALARMIST HEADLINES SELL NEWSPAPERS!!!
...works for thread titles too...
Vaul, you spoil all my fun
Honestly, it was just an effective way of getting people in to see it, and since it's always a pleasure to pursuade people who blindly adhere to a given technology that they're wrong (not taking sides here...but still waiting for the edit
Oh, and since this post is probably going to go the way of the dinosaurs...
Nvidia RULES ATi SUCKS!!!!!
sig removed by Zak33
SHOCK NEWS!!!
ALARMIST HEADLINES SELL NEWSPAPERS!!!
...works for thread titles too...
Vaul, you spoil all my fun
Honestly, it was just an effective way of getting people in to see it, and since it's always a pleasure to pursuade people who blindly adhere to a given technology that they're wrong (not taking sides here...but still waiting for the edit
Oh, and since this post is probably going to go the way of the dinosaurs...
Nvidia RULES ATi SUCKS!!!!!
Fair enough, just some might take it to heart, and then we have a bit of a flame war, and then I have to clear up the mess, and then God kills Morph, that little geezer from 'Take Hart' with Tony Hart. He also kills Chas, Morphs friend.
You don't want that, do you? Think of his little face...
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