4060 Ti info announced - first cards imminent

[Saracen999]

I've just watched the video by Jayz, and it seems the first of two variants of 4060 Ti (8GB version) will be available at $399 (so probably £399-ish here) is launching next week. The 16GB variant, which will apparently be from partners ONLY, will be $100 more and not until July.

Fortunately, and in contrast to the great 4080 debacle, the ONLY difference between 8GB and 16GB versions is the amount of VRAM. No cutting corners elsewhere as per 4080.

Anyway, as the basic 8GB version is (according to Jayz) the same price as the 2060 Super and 3060 Ti were, this might well appeal to those wanting 40xx, but at a more budget-friendly price point.

Jayz video is here

[AGTDenton]

As always I'll be watching, but I will skip at least the 4000 gen, and maybe come in for the 5000 refresh or the first 6000...
Of course thats if I'm playing any AAA games. They've been horrendous lately, and I'm more interested in what the indie developers are doing.

[Percy1983]

Is it just be seeing a worse ram configuration than the 3060.

Are they are going to sell it as extra performance due to fake frames with real gains in the single percentage points.

[Saracen999]

On the performance question, I take what nvidia say with a pinch of salt, like I do for just about any manufacturer's adverclaims. We'll find out, I guess, when various independent testers get done testing and publish their results/conclusions.

[kalniel]

Are these slow enough not to be bothered by the 8 lane restriction for those on PCIe 3 motherboards?

[DanceswithUnix]

Are these slow enough not to be bothered by the 8 lane restriction for those on PCIe 3 motherboards?

We'll have to wait for decent benchmarks, but leaks are putting this at only about 10% faster than a 3060ti for the same RRP money. Fingers crossed street prices go lower than RRP rather than higher like they have been since crypto mining went nuts.

[Saracen999]

Is it just be seeing a worse ram configuration than the 3060.

Are they are going to sell it as extra performance due to fake frames with real gains in the single percentage points.

Is it a worse RAM config, though? We'll have to see what independent testers have to say about results?

I get what you mean. On paper, some of the spec's are worse but, others are better. If you have so much more cache, but a slower width pipe, is not the aspect that matters the result that comes out the end, not the individual aspects of the mechanics of how they do it? I mean, if it turns out the the much larger amount of cache means the pipe and be smaller and still get better results than larger pipe and smaller cache, isn't it a good thing.

Much the same, for me, is true of 'fake' frame rates. I care about my gaming experience, not about 'eeal' or 'fake' frame rates. Does it provide better image quality, smoother movement and so on? If it does, then I don't care if frames are fake or not.

IMHO, it's a bit like a sausage machine - I want really great tasting sausages but I don't really want to know how they're made. I could say the same about large-scale brewing of bear, maing of many/most pies, mamufacture of Worcestershire sauce, and no doubt, a host of other things.

I do note, however, that with those analogies, GIGO still applies. You want a great sausage, start with great ingredients .... but be aware it'll cost more.

As for 4070 (Ti or not) I'm still inclined more towards 7900XT (or XTX). Yes, more expensive but even the 4070-series aren't exactly cheap. I'm not really bothered about ray-tracing either but for the longevity of the card (as far as it's possible to judge in advance) the 20GB/24GB of VRAM gives me some encouragement that it'll be longer before games outgrow that.

[Percy1983]

I agree if other factors mitigate a lower spec all is fine.

Fake frames aren't a problem as such, but I don't accept a card as 30% faster if its only 5% faster without fake frames.

I am all up for DLSS/FSR etc as a way of boosting frames with some compromises but they shouldn't be required to get a card to the level of performance it should be.

Of course if I don't like it, don't buy it. It appears I may never own any nvidia hardware again at this rate, with that AMD aren't much better these days, intel maybe....

[Saracen999]

I agree if other factors mitigate a lower spec all is fine.

Fake frames aren't a problem as such, but I don't accept a card as 30% faster if its only 5% faster without fake frames.

I am all up for DLSS/FSR etc as a way of boosting frames with some compromises but they shouldn't be required to get a card to the level of performance it should be.

Of course if I don't like it, don't buy it. It appears I may never own any nvidia hardware again at this rate, with that AMD aren't much better these days, intel maybe....

Oh, agreed on the 5% thing. I don't trust manufacturer benchmarks, I mean marketing, at all. Best use for them is as something to totally ignore. I guess all I'm saying, in a typically long-winded way, is ... I'll wait for independent results but the fake frame thing or memory spec doesn't bother me .... YET. It's all about the final taste of their sausage.

I must admit I'd rather not buy nVidia at this point. And my personal view is that, in mindset, I doubt AMD are any better. In historical actions they're not as predatory, but I rather put that down to not having had the market power to be as predatory, not any inherent goodness. While there may be an exception or two, not that any come to mind right now, ALL corporates will pretty much behave as Apple, MS, nVidia, Google etc do, given the chance. If being nice, and cnsumer-centric, providing good service, it's almost certainly because they see it as their best atrategy to compete, grow, etc. The underdog has to act differently to top dog, right up until it becomes top dog, then it's true colours will show.

Intel GPUs? Hmmm. Maybe. Not ideal for my purposes probably. Though, their AV1 encoding is supposed to be superb. For my purposes, right now, AMD probably hit my sweet spot in both gaming but not really RT, for "production" purposes though not entirely, and though while not keen on top end pricing (4090 etc) I could do 4080 if I can get my head round why I should? 7900XTX seems to provide a good blend of what I do want/need at a price I can justify to myself, and do it without needing my own personal power station to feed it, and heating half the street by GPU cooling exhaust.

There's no perfect solution for me (or probably anybody), but right now, I feel the closest is AMD CPU/GPU. Which CPU? That's trickier. 7900X maybe, but I'm watching the issues with X3D, various 670E boards, BIOSes, Asus "warranty" statements etc, and I want to see where the dust settles. Partly, I have had good experiences with Asus (this laptop, for instance, and my router) but the way teir actions over the X3D stuff came across .... stunk. So, I'm holding fire on deciding. Again. If it's not one thing (Intel 13th Gen needing W11), it's another (like new gen AMD CPUs), or yet another (X3D series), one thing after another. One reason to procrastinate after another. Now, it's GPUs .... again. It's getting very annoying.

[DanceswithUnix]

While there may be an exception or two, not that any come to mind right now, ALL corporates will pretty much behave as Apple, MS, nVidia, Google etc do, given the chance. If being nice, and cnsumer-centric, providing good service, it's almost certainly because they see it as their best atrategy to compete, grow, etc. The underdog has to act differently to top dog, right up until it becomes top dog, then it's true colours will show.

I will only work for a company with decent ethics. That really hasn't been a problem in finding work, big companies and small, there are plenty out there.

Even that list you gave, they aren't the same such that I could happily put them into an order of how evil they are, except the number one is famously litigious such that I would be worried to do so in writing

[kompukare]

While there may be an exception or two, not that any come to mind right now, ALL corporates will pretty much behave as Apple, MS, nVidia, Google etc do, given the chance. If being nice, and cnsumer-centric, providing good service, it's almost certainly because they see it as their best atrategy to compete, grow, etc. The underdog has to act differently to top dog, right up until it becomes top dog, then it's true colours will show.

While that is of course true, companies do not operate in a complete vacuum. And one very bad apple (note the lowercase - I don't mean those chancers in Cupertino) can easily affect the whole barrel of companies.

Point being, if Nvidia has a reputation for underhand marketing (Focus Groups etc.), pushing proprietary features, using any trick to win benchmarks and so on, then anyone else who competes in the GPU market will eventually have to adopt some of those things.

If that fruit-company has a reputation of treating its suppliers with contempt and considers its customers to be idiots ("you are holding it wrong") then - as they are/were the most successful company in existing - others will follow those examples too.

Same applies to MS, Intel, Google etc. All huge and been dominant in their market for decades. All setting bad examples to others.

Now some of this isn't just bad examples: the revolving nature of personnel means, for example, the marketer who started the Nvidia Focus Groups might be now be working for AMD, or Intel etc.

Which also isn't to say that once an underdog becomes dominant they wouldn't have come up with original dirty trick of their own, but having been on the receiving side when they didn't have the marketshare makes it even easier: they just have to copy the bad examples

[Saracen999]

Part of the problem, I guess, is that companies don't operate in a vacuum.

What heartens me a bit is that size, and market dominance, is no guarantee of longevity, and one could conclude from some historical examples that too much arrogance can be what causes the downfall. That, and the inertia caused by size.

My favourite computer industry morality tale .... "Nobody ever got fired for buying Big Blue", by which I mean, of course, IBM. Back in the 70s, when I did my economics thesis, on the computer industry, IBM were about 70% of the worldwide market. But now? IB-Who?

There's also, however, a certain irony in it being largely MS that put the terminal boot into IBMs dominance, as the world swerved to PCs and IBM failed to notice it happen, until way too late. But look at MS now.

[Saracen999]

... except the number one is famously litigious such that I would be worried to do so in writing

You will notice, I'm sure, that I referred repeatedly, when discussing such companies, to my "personal view" and "my opinion". It was not an accidental turn of phrase.

[DanceswithUnix]

My favourite computer industry morality tale .... "Nobody ever got fired for buying Big Blue", by which I mean, of course, IBM. Back in the 70s, when I did my economics thesis, on the computer industry, IBM were about 70% of the worldwide market. But now? IB-Who?

I think these days they are mostly known by the name "Red Hat" and as such are still the dominant server OS provider, as well as making some really nice big iron Power servers with awesome support. But in an era when you get stupid amounts of compute power in a Raspberry Pi, who the heck needs a Z system?

They are by far the best computer support I have seen though.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

The RTX4060TI is literally an RTX3050 replacement. Also 8GB VRAM and a half speed PCI-E bus,is going to be really great on a PCI-E 3.0 system like mine. What a stinking POS.

[DanceswithUnix]

The RTX4060TI is literally an RTX3050 replacement. Also 8GB VRAM and a half speed PCI-E bus,is going to be really great on a PCI-E 3.0 system like mine. What a stinking POS.

I'm still not sure what to think tbh.

According to Nvidia the ray tracing performance has nearly doubled compared to 3060ti, and tensor core performance has nearly tripled. If shader performance had gone up like that, then I'm sure I would give the card a thumbs up. But I'm still not convinced I care about RT and tensor performance.

Pretty sure I won't be buying one mind, and right now the 3070ti is below RRP while they sell them off (another card with not enough vram).

The 16GB vram version should take a lot of pressure off the PCIe bus