AGP & System freeze

[Vijay]

Hi,

I have an asus V3800 Agp card 'Circa 1999' installed on my Asus A7v8x-x with an AMD 2600+ CPU and 512 Pc2700 ram.

I am not OCing the CPU or stressing any thing.

My sons games Deus Ex, James Bond and Spiderman hang the comp within 10 mins of playing the game.At first i thought it was the high temps that caused the games to hang but that has been sorted out yet the comp hangs.

Next I replaced the CPU with an AMD 1500 Xp and the games worked beautifully. When I reverted to the 2600 cpu the comp hung again.

Any ideas any one other than replacing the AGP card ?

thanks,

Vijay

[Austin]

TNT2 Ultra is long in the tooth now esp considering the perf and advantages of even entry level cards. Most modern mobos are AGP8x and only usually fall back to 4xAGP ... both of which are 1.5v (AGP8x also reduces this to 0.8v for internal signalling) ... unless you get a UNIVERSAL AGP SLOT you are unlikely to be able to use the old gfx cards esp those designed in the AGP2x 3.3v days. You do realise a Duron 1ghz with GF3TI200 would totally kick your system's a$$ in gaming ... gfx card is by far the most critical part and TNT2 Ultra is below GF1 speed, I doubt nVidia ensure new drivers are tweaked with them in mind.

Otherwise the PSU or heat would be prime suspects ... you aren't running PC2100 or something right?

[Vijay]

Hi Austin,

No I am running pc2700 with Amd2600 on an asus a7v8x-x mobo

Yes I do realise that any half way decent graphics card will chew the hell out of my system but gaming is not my area but my sons and it is up to him to get a better card,poor fellow cant afford it.The V3800 was the only decentish card available when I got the Comp.

My area of concern is to find out why the games work on a slower CPU and not on the 2600.

I have just installed MBM and the temps are 54C for CPU and 39C for MB which I feel is more accurate than those shown by the asus probe.

So if it is not the heat is it a setting in the Bios that can be changed or new drivers or...?

Thanks,

Vijay

[directhex]

lack of juice may well be the cause what is the brand & wattage on the power supply?

--jo

[Vijay]

Jo.

Its a generic Bransd with 350 W.

The power supply should not be the prob as it works with a slower CPU.I dont have any thing extra on it ecept for a 10gb spare hdd and an extra chassis fan.

I tend to think that I have to reduce the speed of the Cpu as it is loading too much info too fast to the AGP Card which can't handle it. Any suggestions

Thanks

Vijay

[Austin]

39+54'C are pretty high really, esp at 'only' XP2600+ speed. I'd advise either turning down the voltage to 1.55-1.60v (and test you're still stable) or buy a better HSF like the affordable Volcano11+ £15 (inc variable speed fan), you have only a small amount of compound right? If you are 54'C idle (no stress / workload) then you should expect it to rise close to 60'C when under load (try running Prime tortue test) ... around 60'C is where AMD CPUs tend to be unstable BUT onboard sensors are approximate only, BIOS is the most reliable place to check temps (but rem you're idle). Be sure to check your kit is free of dust, that there is adequate ventilation and intake/exhaust case fans are pointing the right way.

It could very well be your PSU too. 350W should be enough but generic PSUs often over state their rating and there are many other issues than simple maximum wattage anyway. Running an XP2600+ CPU will place more demands on your PSU than a slower CPU will, esp if you happen to run additonal HDs and case fans.

I take it the XP2600+ is the 333FSB based variant (12.5x166), check you are set to 333FSB (2x166) in the BIOS (PCI=33) and that RAM is set to SPD/AUTO or better still sync with FSB (1:1, 3:3, PC2700 @ 333FSB). Then you should test your RAM (RAM/MEMtest86?), can it fail when running Prime or SiSoft Sandra's benchmarks?

TBH I think the first port of call should be a gfx upgrade, a 2nd hand GF4MX is a big step up and since they are about £30 new you should get a good deal. It very well could be the old gfx card dis-liking the modern AGP slot (or vice versa), VIA's KT400 AGP implimentation is known to be problematic.

[Barry]

is your AGP 8x?

if so try forcing 4x max/uping the VAGP up to 1.7,1.8

[Austin]

Yes, all KT400 are AGP8x but should have the capability to fall back to AGP4x mode in AGP8x cards (AGP3.0 spec), AGP4x cards (AGP2.0 spec) will always run in AGP4x mode. However I think TNT2 may have been AGP1.0 spec and that uses 3.3v as opposed to the 1.5v of AGP4x and AGP8x cards. So plugging an AGP2x card in should make the mobo use AGP2x mode BUT many AGP8x based mobos come with 1.5v ONLY AGP slots (non Universal) meaning problems if wanting to use old cards. AGP2x cards won't run in AGP4x mode, you could try disabling AGP mode in the BIOS (ie disable AGP4x/8x), mostly just limiting you to the gfx card's own RAM, little impact on speed.

[Vijay]

Thanks guys,

it will take me a while to digest what you all have written and will get back to you tomorrow

Thanks again

Vijay

[Vijay]

Hi,

disabled Agp in the Bios and now the games dont hang.

Thanks. A new graphics card is definately the next purchase.

About the fan, AMD specifically states that the 3year warranty is void if the cpu is not used with the supplied fan !!

Do you reccommend I still go for a Volcano or better fan and risk voiding the warranty (though how they will ever find out is anther matter) ?

Thanks for all your help and advice

Vijay

[Austin]

Good that you seem to have found the cause, running in AGP0x is not that bad perf-wise either ... biggest downside is being exclusively limited to the gfx card's own RAM, so if you get any 'out of memory' errors you will know why. I'm sure you'll get a good deal on a 2nd hand card, or you could simply buy new as even the lowly GF2MX, GF4MX420 and Rad7000 are still a decent step up.

I wouldn't overly worry about the 3 year warranty, I think you still get the 1 year OEM type warranty but anyway I don't see how they'd know. Given that XP2600+ are about £60 new now and that in 1 year's time an XP3200+ will be easily under £100 I don't really see the value in the warranty anyway.

Try cleaning any dust away from HSF, case fans, ventilation etc (just blow from diff angles) and see if that helps. You may find you can run at XP2600+ stable with less vcore voltage, perhaps try 1.55-1.60v as that is enough to bring temps down and should still be stable (use Prime to test). You could buy some compound to apply to the CPU die or HS, apply a tiny amount and remove the old stuff. Given the price of a Volcano11+ it would seem wise to give it a try ... but then if your PC is stable at 53-60'C then there isn't any need to spend cash, even £15. Esp since you're looking to upgrade the gfx card.

[Vijay]

Thanx again.

Calcutta is shut down for a week-Puja holidays -our major festival and will only be able to find out about the availability of Volcano fans after that.

Will get in touch and let you know.

Regards,

Vijay

[Vijay]

Took the machine in to the Cpu vendor who after corresponding with AMD replaced the CPU with a new 2600 XP with a 512 L2 Cache default 1.9ghz.

The games still freeze at the default speed and I found they work at a setting of 1.5 ghz.

I reset the FSB etc to 1.9 and found the machine would freeze even when writing mail so I upped the VCore voltage from 1.65 to 1.7 and so far no freeze.

Incidently the Bios shows the Vcore to be 1.7 but mbm shows it as 1.66 only? Any ideas?

I do not intend to OC at least not untill a new Graphics card is installed but as a matter of interest what is the max speed I can expect?

Regards,

Vijay

[SilentDeath]

Austin - i dont agree about cpu voltage. if heat was a problem, a SMALL inc in voltage would acctually help but anything mroe would make it worse, and decreasing voltagw will probly make it a lot worse aswell... tbh i think its best to test b4 changing anything, test with an app like prime95, then underclock untill it fixed... or get better cooling etc...

[Vijay]

Since last post it has started freezing again .Reduced Voltage to 1.65 but to no avail.

Could the AGP card be responsible?

Other than prime 95 which is a massive download,can I test with another Freeware application and if so which one?

Voltage reporting..Do I go by the bios or by MBM/Aida?

Thanks guys,

Regards,

Vijay

[Austin]

Something must be faulty and if you changed the CPU it would point to gfx card, RAM or mobo ... cooling and PSU being outsiders. Try unpluggng everything else (except HD) and maybe try a fresh OS install (or at least reinstall) then use the latest drivers. See if that helps stability.

BTW AFAIK there is no XP2600+ 512 L2 CPU @ 1.9ghz, in fact there is no AMD CPU @ 1.9ghz as it goes from the 1.8ghz of the XP2200+ (256k 266FSB) and XP2500+ (512k 333FSB) straight up to the 2.0ghz of the XP2400+ (256k 266FSB). I doubt that's really anything to worry about though.

Is it only gaming that crashes the PC? You can stress the CPU or RAM by using something like SiSoft Sandra (via benchmarks). Anywhere you look for voltage info is only a rough guide, the BIOS is the best place to look while the Windows app specific to your mobo is next best and better to see how things get when stressed.