What is the smartest upgrade from a 6800GT AGP?

[KingJimi]

Hi guys, next year my plans are to move onto the 939 bandwagon, after my trusty old XP 2500 starting to come to the end of its life. I've planned the following:

CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400
Mainboard: Asus A8N-E (I'm not fussed about SLI)
The usual harddrive and so on, but upgrading the graphics is bugging me. If I take a 7800GT, it wouldn't make sense as I would'nt see much of an increase. A 7800GTX for me personally would be overkill. SLI would make for two 7800GT's but it doesn't bother me. So what is the right gfx card then? Please, help me out!

[Smokey21]

Well if a 7800GT isn't good enough and a GTX is overkill, then whats the point of upgrading?

What resolution do you game at? Do you play all the lastest games. if you like your AA and AF, id suggest looking at ATI, as they are stronger than nvidia with AA.

The X1800XT can be had for around 330quid these days. If thats to much, you can pick up a X1800XL for about 230quid. On par with a 7800GT most of the time, and it overclocks like a beast.

[StormPC]

If you read his post I think he says he doesn't want to buy a 7800GT for fear that he would not realize a large increase over his 6800GT. This is not correct though, he would realize a huge increase.

KingJimi,

If you are not a hardcore gamer running at 1600x1200+ or an enthusiast (overclocker) then you only need to upgrade to PCI-E. If you are a hardcore gamer or enthusiast then you should stay away from the X2 (and all dual-core chips) because the single-cores overclock much better.

If you want the fastest gaming rig spend your money on an A64 FX and a fast videocard (7800GT minimum, but X1800XL, X1800XT, 7800GTX, 7800GTX-512 are all better). If you want a cruncher and multi-tasker build an X2 and whatever videocard you like. If you game at 1280x1024 or lower anything as good or better than an ATI X800XL or nVidia 6800GT is just fine.

[Smokey21]

Storm, i agree about the video cards, but seriously, you cannot suggest buying a single core chip these days, especially a FX.

Have you not seen the lastest Dual Core benchmarks? ATI and Nvidia are making optimizing there drivers for Dual Core. UT2007 out Spring next year, has been built from the ground up with Dual Core in mind.

There is no way in hell id reccommend a Single core chip at all, unless it was for a cheap Opteron. Dual core processors overclock very well, easily to 2.4-2.5ghz at least. The difference between that and a Single Core at 3ghz (if you can reach 3ghz) is very little, especially with a decent enough GPU.

His CPU and mobo choice is great, i know i own both. You can vouch for the mobo as you reccommened it to me.

6800GT- 7800GT is a waste IMO, there is no point going PCI-E, and doing all that upgrading for that card, the difference isn't that much. Id personally look at at a 7800GTX or X1800.

[StormPC]

The fastest CPUs in the world in 3DMark2001:

Pentium M 780 and FX-57, both single core.

The fastest CPUs in the world in 3DMark03:

FX-57

The fastest CPUs in the world in 3DMark05:

FX-57

Dual-cores are only faster when the second core is used. Games may someday be able to take advantage of multiple cores, but right now they do not.

Also, we have had SMP for many years now. I had a dual Pentium Pro many years back. I do not believe multithreaded games will be mainstream until people no longer run single-cores. This is pure economics. Software companies simply will not write programs in any number for a CPU that nobody has. Compared to the number of single-core CPUs on this planet, nobody has dual-cores yet.

[KingJimi]

I would consider going to an ATI card, but only if they promise to fix their damn drivers! I understand the point you guys are making, but my current 6800GT is starting to show its age. Would a 7800GT have the overclocking possibility of a GTX, just like the 6800 GT > 6800 Ultra? Because if that's the case I might go down that route. I do consider myself to be quite serious and I do have a budget for the core components of around £500. I think NVIDIA and ATI need to release a card that bridges the gap.

[kempez]

I'd get an x1800xt 512mb as its a good card and will last you a good while. ATI will sort out their drivers dw

[ed^chigliak]

The two things combined 7800GT + your new CPU and it will be much faster overall. I can't see any problem with a lack of performance any time soon. Agree upwards of a 7800GT is overkill unless you're trying to game on a crazy widescreen TFT in which case all your money belongs to Nvidia or ATI.

7800GT + zalman cooler £200/£20 and you're sorted imo. The screen you have now and whether or not you are likely to upgrade/change it any time soon will dictate what graphics card you need.

If you buy more than you need it will simply devalue and be superseded by newer hardware before you get a chance to really use it.

[Smokey21]

The fastest CPUs in the world in 3DMark2001:

Pentium M 780 and FX-57, both single core.

The fastest CPUs in the world in 3DMark03:

FX-57

The fastest CPUs in the world in 3DMark05:

FX-57

Dual-cores are only faster when the second core is used. Games may someday be able to take advantage of multiple cores, but right now they do not.

Also, we have had SMP for many years now. I had a dual Pentium Pro many years back. I do not believe multithreaded games will be mainstream until people no longer run single-cores. This is pure economics. Software companies simply will not write programs in any number for a CPU that nobody has. Compared to the number of single-core CPUs on this planet, nobody has dual-cores yet.

Storm, Ut2007 is due out in the Spring, thats 4 months away. Expect a 50% improvement with a Dual Core CPU, especially with loads of bots. It's going to be a massive selling game, and lots of games, will use the engine in the future cause it will be that dam good.

It's all well and good, saying fastest CPU in 3dmark, is the FX-57? Were not benchmark geeks here. Real world performance is games, and Dual core is happening, believe it. I just told you even driver optimizations are seeing decent gains.

You seem to have an obsession with 3dmark, it means nothing Storm. Besides for benching, Dual Core processors are faster in 3dmark, because of drivers. I can't quite find it at the moment, but a guy on XS, testing his Single Core opteron 148 at 3ghz, and his Dual core Opteron 170 at 2700Mhz. The Dual core, was over 1000 points faster in 3dmark 05, with a X1800XT. But im just trying to get through to you Storm.

Here is the article on CPU scaling:
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/...ling/page6.asp

Proves, a FX-57 is a complete and utter waste of cash, unless your a bench freak, and like to brag how big your e-penis is.

Id take a Dual core at 2600mhz than a FX-57 at 3Ghz, thanks very much.

[KingJimi]

Well it looks like I'll go for the 7800GT then considering I can use my Arctic on it anyway. Any thoughts on the PC as a whole?

AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400
Asus A8N-E
1GB Corsair XMS4000 RAM
XFX GeForce 7800GT (one with the fancy stuff on it. I like stickers. I'm such a baby )

Already ordered 4 x 74GB Raptors, hoping to use them in Raid 1.

Also, I agree with Smokey on the fact that real world benchmarks matter most, not synthetic. The plus side of dual core is that when the applications are available, we can use them straight, while others sweat in fear about the cost it will take to upgrade.

[sawyen]

I coudnt agree more on the dual core part. The future of multithreaded games are like only months away. And why would u want to have a single cored chip when u can have a 200MHz slower dual core variant for cheaper? Without question the FX-57 is the fastest meanest most rediculously expensive chip u can buy to run today's games and single threaded stuff. But we're not like you Storm, we build our systems to it to last a while (meaning being able to maximise their performance on future applications as much as possible). Spending like an extra £200 to gain like a measly extra 5sec in single threaded encoding time now but losing out by 1 minute off in 4 months time when softwares starts optimising for multicore cpus isnt the smartest move... no?

Smokey, you do know what sort of things Storm's going to say by giving him a linky to firing squad? *I dun read reviews, I have my own hardware.. nyeehh*

[StormPC]

CPU City pricing:

4400+ X2 = £386.58 (Inc.VAT)
7800GT = £323.11 (Inc.VAT)

Exactly what makes you think you can get all that (MBD/CPU/RAM/VC) for £500?

I'll tell you what though, I can build a system for under £550 that will destroy the 4400+ based system (in games) that Smokey has decided you need.

AMD SEMPRON 3000+ HT 64-bit = £62.28 (Inc.VAT)
ASUS SKT-754 K8S-MX S/V/L M-ATX 800FSB = £41.36 (Inc.VAT)
2X CORSAIR VS512MB400 3200 DDR C2.5 = £70.50 (Inc.VAT)
7800GTX = £374.83 (Inc.VAT)

Total = £548.97

You have to understand people like Smokey. He spends most of his time on the internet reading reviews that may or may not be accurate. Then he comes to forums like this and spews the information as if he knows it firsthand, when in fact he does not. He also (like many in these forums, he's not the only one) seems to be hell-bent on trying to make people buy whatever he has (or wants) at the moment. I have seen it many times. I'm not sure what he gets out of it. I don't understand that myself.

I build systems for a living to solve problems. The things that make a computer good at games do not make it good at crunching. That's why custom built systems are so much better than a Dell or Gateway.

The truth is, dual-cores are not gaming chips. They are for crunching, multitasking (running more than one application which needs a lot of CPU cycles) and for powerusers who run programs with multiple CPU intensive threads. They game ok, but if gaming is what you do with your computer it is a waste of money, because you will simply not be using the two cores. If they ever do make programs that I care about take advantage of multiple cores I will be the first to build a 16 core Opteron system on my block.

You should know that I have 5 computers at the moment, two of which are dual-cores. If it was not for the fact that I crunch SETI the dual-cores would never be used at all. For most things a fast-single core is better.

[sawyen]

Woou woouu.. Lets just start over, the guy jsut recommended a list for us to review. Now, he chose 4400+ as the CPU.. so its all true and great as it provides better all round performance. I might not have the opportunity to play with so many systems as you Storm, but I do get to work with a few very good systems when I'm in my lab. A dual core system is definitely not JUST for stuff like SETI, and buying them just for remote SETI is the *wrong-est* of all wrong decisions. Like dual CPU systems, dual core rigs works much more responsive than single cored systems. Alot of us use our system for MORE than just games, be it multithreaded simulations or just plain video encoding. Have you ever tried encoding your family xmas DVD while working with Office and Adobe all together? If u do, then you should know perfectly how the system feels.

We're not blatantly recommended stuff we use to other ppl. If we're like how you've classified ppl here, you're definitely one of them. The difference is just that you build systems for a living and we don't. The reasons and explanations you give works, yet they are still based on your OWN experience. So are you telling me you're not recommending YOUR previously used parts to others? People here give pointers that are also based on either their personal experience or your eternal enemy; reviews. Remember, reviews are written by ppl like YOU. System testers, builder and etc.

I'm only comparing stuff ppl usually do at home. Do not tell me you have never encoded a homemade DVD in your life. When you eventually factor in softwares mid classed professionals use like AutoCad, Chemdraw, HYSYS and multi-looping VB, the dual core solutions is a no-brainer. We're not even talking stuff I use daily YET..

Back to your fav topic, games. Lets be honest, we cant predict the future (yourself included). We will never know if multi-threaded games will offer improvements as they said they will. But face it, its a trend that not even you can deny. Also, what's with the economics thingy, I don't mean to be rude... but if this is ALL simple economics, why are u still working with a website that's still has 'Under Construction' in your systems page and not with AMD or game developers?

BACK ON THE TOPIC: I'm also thinking how are you going to squeeze everything into that budget. You could however drop the CPU to a 3800+ X2, get a 6800GS and your fav Asus A8N SLI and end up with something around £500

[nvening]

pst 7800GTs are £200

[sawyen]

pst 7800GTs are £200

My bad.. You could trade the 6800GS for 7800GT as well

3800+ X2
Asus A8N SLI Standard
7800GT

You'll probably get it just a tad overbudget.. But it wont break £550 unless you went for the Premium version mobo

[StormPC]

Ah, sawyen. Always coming to your girlfriend Smokey's rescue.

I have lead the horse to water. Do you think it makes any difference to me whether he drinks or not?

I build systems all the time that people like yourselves "prefer", even though they are not the best option for their budget and usage. I can only try to teach. Learning is for your benefit, not mine. It is to my benefit if you buy a system from me and spend as much as possible.