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Thread: No HDCP for you!!!

  1. #1
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    No HDCP for you!!!

    On the video card level that is, or so they say, according to this:

    Quote Originally Posted by said by Great_HDCP_fiasco[quote
    Brandon’s thoughts

    Without a doubt, this is huge, startling news. As much as ATI and NVIDIA have been promoting H.264 decoding with their latest GPUs, it’s pretty shocking to see that apparently none of the shipping retail cards on the market have been built to take advantage of it. To add insult to injury, it appears that a line of Sony GeForce 6200s and 6600s offer HDCP support, yet the latest high-end GeForce 7800 GTX cards don’t. How’s that for irony?

    While some of you may not plan on upgrading to Vista at the end of this year, this is eventually going to affect you if you ever planned on watching hi-def movies on your PC in the future. Microsoft will eventually end support for Windows XP; already, their Games Division is planning Vista-exclusive titles such as Halo 2. It will only be a matter of time before other software developers follow suit, forcing anyone who’s remotely interested in gaming to upgrade to Windows Vista.

    Anyone with a GeForce 6/7 or Radeon X1K card who was planning on buying a BD-ROM or HD-DVD drive later this year for their PC may want to hold off on that purchase. Quite frankly, this article should affect the purchasing decisions of potentially anyone in the market for a new PC or graphics card right now that’s even remotely interested in watching hi-def movies on their PC sometime in the future.

    What we’ve confirmed
    We’ve been able to confirm that none of the Built-by-ATI Radeons support HDCP. If you’ve just spent $1000 on a pair of Radeon X1900 XT graphics cards expecting to be able to playback HD-DVD or Blu-Ray movies at 1920x1080 resolution in the future, you’ve just wasted your money.

    NVIDIA, being a GPU manufacturer was unable to discuss the plans of board manufacturers. We contacted all six of NVIDIA’s Tier-1 board partners. None of the GeForce 6 or 7 video cards available on the market, including the most recently released GeForce 7800GS, have HDCP support. So if you just spent $1500 on a pair of 7800GTX 512MB GPUs expecting to be able to play 1920x1080 HD-DVD or Blu-Ray movies in the future, you’ve just wasted your money.

    Blame Canada?
    As ATI is a GPU and board manufacturer, I’m disappointed that Built-by-ATI video cards lack HDCP support. Think about it. The GPU engineers are smart enough to know that their GPUs need to support HDCP, but their board engineers aren’t? Is it even possible to build a GPU without thinking about the board that has to go along with it? ATI is extremely reticent to give us any more details about “Retail Plans.” Maybe ATI owners will get lucky, and ATI will have some sort of free upgrade program. Maybe ATI owners will get shafted, and buyers of X1900XT’s are going to find themselves with a video card that cannot play HD-DVD or Blu-Ray at 1920x1080. Who knows?

    Blame Santa Clara?
    What about NVIDIA? Personally, I think they have the least blood on their hand for two reasons. One, they aren’t a board manufacturer. That excuse alone wouldn’t be good enough for me though.

    What really gets them off the hook is that NVIDIA has been offering their board manufacturing partners designs with HDCP support since May 2005. Likewise, NVIDIA has actually shipped HDCP-enabled GeForce 6200 and 6600’s in Sony Media Center PCs. Those boards just aren’t manufactured at retail. In retrospect, they did their part. It was the board manufacturers who failed us. I don’t need to name names, because they ALL failed us.
    http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/....dailytech.com
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  2. #2
    Banhammer in peace PeterB kalniel's Avatar
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    Won't drivers be able to do anything about this?

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    Will work for beer... nichomach's Avatar
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    HDCP is enabled in hardware AFAIK, so no, there won't be a magic driver update to fix this one. TBH, I'm prepared to wait a couple of product cycles before doing anything about HD, though.

  4. #4
    YUKIKAZE arthurleung's Avatar
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  5. #5
    Will work for beer... nichomach's Avatar
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    The problem isn't that your hardware won't support the resolution, it's that the display chain is actually encrypted - so you need an HDCP device outputting to an HDCP display.

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    Well, from what I gathered, my few months old 2405 Dell monitor doesn't support HDCP either. So I guess it'll be another 2-3 years before I benefit from Blue-Ray/HD-Disc movies...

    As a consolation, there should be a winner between those two formats by then...

  7. #7
    Anthropomorphic Personification shaithis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TooNice
    As a consolation, there should be a winner between those two formats by then...
    Don't count on it........

    As for HDCP material, its a shame but most people wont be playing it on their PCs for a LONG time, well, unless somone cracks it

    You can already buy gizmos that plug into your DVI/HDMI cable and remove HDCP protection....I am sure it won't be long until Vistas HDCP implementation is cracked via software.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaithis
    Don't count on it........
    Do you mean that it'll take more than two years before the dust settles or it'll be the same as DVD-R vs DVD+R (pretty even with neither looking to be phased out before the other)?

  9. #9
    Senior Amoeba iranu's Avatar
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    I find it odd that a 9700pro supports HDCP but the latest offerings don't.

    http://www.ati.com/products/RadeonX1900/specs.html says that HDCP (as well as HDMI) and HDR at high res is supported.

    1080i (1920x1080 interlaced) and 720p (1280x720 progressive) are the two HD formats with 720p being the preferred option - it handles motion better and the ati ccc has options for both.

    All of the bumf on ati's site indicates that it is geared up for HD and copy protection so why has ati not insisted in it's terms and agreements with card manufacturers that the card must support HDCP?

    Has anyone else tested an HDCP monitor with a x1900xt?

    This could well be a blessing in disguise because it means there will be millions of people who will need a crack for HDCP content. Remember folks we don't want HDCP anyway it's evil.
    Last edited by iranu; 14-02-2006 at 07:37 PM.
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  10. #10
    Vive le pants! directhex's Avatar
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    the *GPU* can support HDCP.

    the *CARD* does not, as it requires an encrypted key chip to be included (and none are).

    only OEM Sony 6200/6600's have HDCP

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    Actually, I cannot say that I am terribly surprised about all this. Smart money is spent by those who buy official Windows Vista ready hardware some time after Vista ships,…..not before.

    When I bought my last video card, a Sapphire X800GTO2 PCIe, HDCP wasn’t even a distant consideration. Perhaps that’s my fault but then again perhaps not especially if no retail card supports HDCP. The Sapphire X800GTO2 was a good performing budget card that could be unlocked and OCed. I suspect that I will have gotten my coins worth from it (and relegate it to a secondary system possibly even third) by the time I’m ready to buy what I suspect will be a dual format Blue-Ray/HD-DVD drive for my PC. In any case, I’ll buy Vista whenever it comes out.

    Having said all that, I just bought a Viewsonic N3250w 32” 16:9 LCD HDTV with HDMI-HDCP which only supports 1366x768. Again, I think it best to buy Vista ready hardware after Vista ships, however, my current 19” CRT monitor was literally giving me a headache,…every day,…for hours and hours,….

    I’ll say this though, the fact that nVidia has shipped some 6200/6600 OEM HDCP supporting video cards is a feather in their collective caps. What’s happening in the retail sector for both nVidia and ATI with respect to HDCP is a crying shame though,….(and most of the OEM sector too),....IMO,..

    People do need to be made aware of this even if they don’t really have standing plans to buy Windows Vista.

    The next video card I buy will have HDCP support,….which means,….I simply cannot buy any of the cards currently out on the market,…....shame that,...
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  12. #12
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    When is Vista due? Maybe I should sell my still boxed X1800XT and get a cheapo GFX card until then? Ummmmm....

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    Well, lets put it in perspective:

    A new X1900/X1800 or 7800GT(X) xxx (or lesser) cards will still do what we basically bought them for. Playing games on high-end cards with high-end hardware is a pleasure many of us are willing to pay for. Other things like video are often an after thought.

    If you bought your video card to game and care little for Vista/Blue-Ray/HD-DVD and its requirements then by all means game on!!! If Vista/Blue-Ray/HD-DVD and its requirements are of concern then you have reason to keep your money in your pocket until such time as manufactures and (and to a lesser extent, system builders) get their collective acts together.

    Vista will get here when it gets here. Last I heard Vista will be here late this year (last quarter maybe) if it isn’t delayed again. I myself am only interested in versions of Vista that include Vista MCE. Therefore, video is of some interest to me.

    Naturally, I’m not crazy about content protection or any other feature that does me no real good but yet adds to the complexity and cost of the product. But, what are you going to do,…?

    In any case, buyers should be aware of what they are getting or are not getting as the case may be.
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  14. #14
    Does he need a reason? Funkstar's Avatar
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    The more issues like this that crop up the better.

    From a long term perspective, i'm hoping that there are huge problems when people try and hook the 'HD Ready' screens that are (apparently) flying off the shelves right now to a BluRay or HD-DVD player. At least that way it will make people in the media and general public more aware of the restrictions being applied by 'the industry'.

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    i dont see much of a problem here sure they've misled consumers etc. but think how many are going to be crying into their pints over this.

    If you want HDCP its pretty obvious (considering sony 6200s can do it) that by time it comes remotely mainstream there will be cheap cards capable of doing it. And if you bought a 7800 512mb then chances are your a gamer too which means you'll want to upgrade your card again pretty soon too, and when you do the next gen will probably be proper HDCP capable.

    Im all for kicking up a fuss when being misled about "futureproof" technology, but this isnt that bad if you think about it.

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    Like many I've already got a widescreen monitor (or TV) and plan on buying a newer GPU soon.

    Given that both the source & display need to be HDCP compliant, I don't see myself upgrading for encrypted HD or Vista until next gen monitors come out with features that will actually provide a big step up in display performance, such as 48 bit colour depth (eg http://www.brightsidetech.com/products/dr37p.php) and new panel technologies like OLED or SED (eg http://www.behardware.com/articles/5...kind-sed.html)

    I agree with [DW]Cougho, by the time it comes around we'll need to have Vista, HDCP DX10 card, HDCP monitor and a Blu-Ray or HD-DVD drive, so it's like a complete platform change.

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