Oblivion Upgrade

[Synergy6]

Well, I've just watched the latest Oblivion video (See GH3D) and it's looking like a game I would certainly buy. But, I'm thinking my system probably won't run it at full pelt
So, I want to upgrade my AGP graphics card. Nothing major, as I will be getting a new system in early 2007, but enough to tide me over rather better than now. Playing FEAR in anything over 1024x768 would be lovely too. I don't think I'm getting the full cinematic experience when it's either basic looking or a slideshow.

So, I've seen an X850Pro for £154, a 6800GS for £157 and a 7800GS for £194. Considering my current financial situation, a full upgrade is out of the question. Which of the above 3 give the best bang for the buck? (All prices including VAT from Ebuyer, checked Scan as well but seemed more expensive).

However, there is another option. I could buy a £40 case/PSU, £40 MB and £50 water cooling kit. This would let me OC my processor, and put in a PCI-E Graphics card. However, it would cost quite a bit more, and I'm not sure if a few extra MHz on my CPU would help all that much. If you're wondering, I mean the http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/produ...duct_uid=98336
as the motherboard. Good/bad/middling idea?

Thanks for all advice,
Synergy6

[muddyfox470]

Why not go second hand?

Failing that i would recommend upgrading and going either 754 pcie or 939 pcie

You may be able to buy a cheap CPU ~ £80 tops (or £40 for sempron 754)
2nd hand mobo ~ £30
use existing case and psu (temporarily)
then you should be able to afford a 6600gt for the time being, or get a x850xt pe (second hand) for £100 (altho pcie)

in the long term you will save a lot of money, as if you see yourself going pentium / amd 939/754 you will have effectively lost £x by buying another agp graphics card

especially when agp graphics cards seem to be relatively more expensive than agp nowadays :s

see what you can do. or as you say you could go intel and get the 478 board get a nice cheap celeron or 2nd hand intel (sorry about all this 2nd hand stuff) and you can get a decent gfx card

i have recently bought the following components for a PC (downstairs pc for parents)
sempron 2800+ (64bit) £40 - skt 754
msi neo platinum (754) - 2nd hand
1Gb PC3200 RAM - £50 (you could obviously keep yours)
Antec PSU (£25)
Aluminium Case (£20)
80 gb harddrive (£5)
using existing gfx (agp) floppy and dvd drive

all for less than £200

my advice is keep on checking scan today only offers, a lot of parts i have recently bought have been on their special offers

good luck

sorry if this hasnt helped too much

ian

EDIT:

What is your current spec? then we can see how much of an improvement anything would make - especially as many highend graphics cards are cpu limited in todays games. why not grin and bear the 1024*768 res for the time being and in jan you will have a lot more money to play with and hence get a better overall system.
it depends on what cpu graphics combo you have ... so let us know and i am sure someone could be a bit more helpful!

As for the watercooling kit, my advice would be dont bother, for that price there is nothing really worth doing that a £20 hsf cant do.

Out of the graphics i would go for the X850; altho you may be able to pick up a 6800GT for that price (6800gt is slightly better than gs)

[kojak71]

Which way you decide to upgrade your system is dependent on the type of games you want to play, some games are more CPU limited, others are more GPU limited, some both. With your current CPU, you will still see a marked improvement if you upgrade the graphics card. Depending on which revision CPU you have you can overclock it quite a lot. I've experimented with my 2.8GHz 800FSB Northwood, and it has no problems going to 3.5GHz (1000FSB) with air cooling (others have overclocked theirs by a lot more than that). Your i875 based motherboard is an ideal overclocker, and should allow you to lock the AGP/PCI frequencies to 66/33MHz, and allow you to run a clock divider on the RAM.

Speaking of RAM, I noticed you've got 3 banks of RAM (2x256 + 1x512). You realise that in that configuration you are not running the RAM in the optimal dual channel configuration? My advice is to sell your existing RAM, and replace it with identical sticks, either 2x512 or 2x1GB (and not 4x256 or 4x512). Although filling in all the DRAM slots is possible, RAM timings and overall stability are affected, and it can reduce the overclocking ability of the motherboard. Although 1GB of RAM is plenty, many newer games are proving to perform a lot better with 2GB (e.g. Half-Life2 & Battlefield2).

As far as graphics card is concerned, I wouldn't recommened the ATi card because it doesn't support Shader Model 3, which is increasingly being used in new games. Either of the nVidia cards you mentioned do, if you can afford it I would go for 7800GS.

[kalniel]

Oblivion will cope fine on the rest of your spec, the main thing you need is a better graphics card. Do not consider anything less than a 6800gs for Oblivion. As mentioned, the X8xx from ATI do not have SM3.0 which oblivion takes advantage of. If you can afford the 7800GS then Oblivion will thank you, but a 6800gs will still give you a very good experience without dropping much from the 7800gs.

I would not worry about your ram configuration unless you have money spare - going to dual channel will not make any noticable difference in Oblivion.

[sawyen]

A cheapo 6800GT should be fast enuf.. u can get them pretty cheap 2nd hand now.. £110-120ish...

Most of them clock to 6800Ultra without much problem.. Some actually goes further, MUCH further.. Mine went to 450MHz without a hitch, just the temps is making it look terrible..

That should give u enough leeway to strip the settings up in Oblivion, tho u might have to run 1024x768 rather than the usual 1280x1024..

[Synergy6]

muddyfox - Click "My System" under my name to see my specs. I have looked at second hand, but, when you actually look at the final selling prices, I haven't seen much in the way of awesome deals. Perhaps in part due to 60% of the upgrade market being AGP, there are still plenty of buyers for high end AGP parts.
I don't really see the point in going 754, as (AFAIK) it's being/been phased out. I know everything is phased out eventually, but I would guess 939 will be the longer lasting as far as performance, and then value, chips go.
I cannot use the existing case and PSU. PSU is 250W, and case is proprietary.
I would love to see where you can get an X850XTPE for £110. I've seen them go recently for over £170.
I have been grinning and bearing for months, I don't think it's worth waiting for another year.

kojak71 - As my profile thingy says, my board is Dell. I.e., there are non-existant overclocking options available. If there were, I would have tried them by now. Hell, if it did, the CPU doesn't even have a fan on the HS.
I know I'm not in dual channel, but 1GB is better than 512MB in dual channel.

I think my point with getting a 6800Ultra/7800GS, is it likely my PSU will handle it? I know Dell underrate their PSUs, but still, I've seen 450W recommendations for the 6800U, and mine's called 250W. Do they really rate it at nearly half of possible spec?

Thanks again
Synergy6

[kojak71]

What Dell system do you have (i.e. model number)

[Synergy6]

Dell Inspiron 8300.
Synergy6

[kojak71]

Dell Inspiron 8300.
Synergy6

Do you mean Dell Dimension 8300? Aren't Dell Inspiron's notebook computers?

[sawyen]

Changing the PSU for DELL's should be dirt easy.. I did with mine anyways.. Pop in a decent 400W and u shud be fine..

[mike_w]

I'm not too sure whether even a 6800GT would be limited by that P4... I know my 6600GT is limited quite a bit in some games. Still, it would be a fair upgrade, and I wouldn't have thought a 6600GT would draw much more more power (may be even less!) than a 9800.

[kojak71]

Changing the PSU for DELL's should be dirt easy.. I did with mine anyways.. Pop in a decent 400W and u shud be fine..

Most Dells are not ATX PSU compatible, but I think that the 8300 is one of the exceptions, so switching to another one in this case should be straightforward.

[Synergy6]

Err, yes, Dell Dimension 8300 Wasn't thinking.

Is it likely my case would take a new MB and PSU? I was under the impression that neither was always possible. E.g., the front panel/power buttons, I was led to believe they were proprietary.

Anyhoo, the new graphics card vs system half upgrade vs full upgrade is more of the issue, a £30 case can be gotten either way.

Synergy6

[kalniel]

Dell case, motherboard and power supply are all usually propriatary. Thankfully they're also all rather good and shouldn't actually need upgrading unless you are going for a socket change. Though I've heard people replacing them, it usually involves cutting bits of plastic (edit: though I don't know if the 8300 is an exception)

I'd go for a good gfx card now, then if you need to you can get the asrock dual sata2 and continue using it on a modern m/bo with the option to go PCI-E later.

[Synergy6]

Dell case, motherboard and power supply are all usually propriatary. Thankfully they're also all rather good and shouldn't actually need upgrading unless you are going for a socket change. Though I've heard people replacing them, it usually involves cutting bits of plastic (edit: though I don't know if the 8300 is an exception)

I'd go for a good gfx card now, then if you need to you can get the asrock dual sata2 and continue using it on a modern m/bo with the option to go PCI-E later.

TBH that seems like a good idea. I think I would be satisfied if I could work out which AGP card would be best on performance/£, and would be nice if any Dell users out there could advise on how their PSUs hold up

A better shortlist.

http://www.komplett.co.uk/k/ki.asp?sku=312761 - 6800GT £180
http://www.komplett.co.uk/k/ki.asp?sku=317794 - 7800GS £195
http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/produ...uct_uid=105834 - X850 Pro £156
http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/produ...uct_uid=103056 - 6800GS £158

http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/produ...uct_uid=107115 - I'm also putting this here. Yes, it's only 128bit memory, but it's only £125. Just a thought.

Thanks once more
Synergy6

[kojak71]

If you pop over to the Dell forum, you'll find plenty of people who have experiences with VGA upgrades. I had a quick look there and there doesn't seem to be any real problems. No-one can answer your price/performance question because it's subjective. If you going to stick with your system for the a year, than I would get the most powerful card that your system could take and your wallet afford. Depending on what games and resolution, you can see performance differences between 10-50%. Have a look at http://www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/322/8/ there they compare several cards including 6800GS and the 7800GS. Both these cards support SM3, the ATi budget cards do not.