Does refusing delivery get you a full refund?

[Ne0]

Hi guys,

I was just thinking about an order I placed via svp.co.uk before 3pm yesterday for Saturday delivery. I understand this is no fault of svp.co.uk however the estimated delivery day on my the order tracking page has miraculously changed to Monday. I have tried ringing up City-Link but their offices are only open up until midday on Saturdays. It's a shame because I feel like I have been ripped off so what I plan to do is refuse the delivery on Monday if someone from City-Link does bother coming around. My question is when the package is sent back to svp.co.uk do they issue a full refund?

[streetster]

just get the order on monday, give the guys at SVP a phone call / email and i'm sure they'd be happy to re-imburse you the shipping charge - most decent places will do this for you

[Ne0]

just get the order on monday, give the guys at SVP a phone call / email and i'm sure they'd be happy to re-imburse you the shipping charge - most decent places will do this for you

Another thing is I'm having second thought's about the order too you see

[streetster]

ah... I thought it was only the delivery charge...

Probably best to give them a ring, you may get a full refund, or they may deduct the shipping, or they may deduct a restocking fee (or both!), was it a large order?

[Ne0]

Not a big order at all really just a box of 200 dvds or 4 spindles of 50

[ikonia]

to be honest - "I'm having second thoughts about the order" is a disgraceful reason to refuse delivery.
Complaing about the shipping and get a refund - as your entitled to in my opinion but backing out of an order for no reason is rude

[Ne0]

to be honest - "I'm having second thoughts about the order" is a disgraceful reason to refuse delivery.
Complaing about the shipping and get a refund - as your entitled to in my opinion but backing out of an order for no reason is rude

Well I would have gladly accepted if the order did turn up today as it was much needed. I've substituted to blank DVDs from PC world so don't really require the SVP discs.

[Saracen]

Yes, you can refuse delivery, BUT you need contact SVP and tell them that under the Distance Selling Regulations, you're cancelling the order. And that notification MUST be in a 'permanent' form, i.e. letter, fax, email, etc, but emphatically NOT by phone.

But Ne0, you have not been "ripped off".

Unless you specifically made the date of delivery "of the essence", then the supplier is not held to any specific date, just to a reasonable time (subject to a maximum of 30 days from the day after the order was sent), and any delivery date supplied is no more than an estimate of their expectations. If you pay for next-day delivery, all it really means is that when they ship, they use a next-day service. That MIGHT mean that if they ship that day, you'll get it the next day, but what you're paying for is the class of delivery service they use, not a guaranteed delivery date.

So, back you your query.

If you ordered by a distance means (internet, mail-order, via telephone, etc ... but not actually in person at a shop), then the Distance Selling Regulations apply, and they stipulate that with most * types of goods, you have a guaranteed period within which you can cancel, without even needing to supply a reason, and certainly without there needing to be any problem or fault with the goods.

If you cancel before delivery has commenced, you'll get a full refund, including any carriage charges, and they'll be no cost involved in shipping back..

If, however, delivery has commenced, then you will either have to return the goods yourself, pay for them to be returned or pay the supplier the direct cost of collection, provided the supplier has stipulated that you bear the cost of returning goods in their terms and conditions .... and any half-awake mail-order supplier will have done so.

But what the supplier is absolutely NOT allowed to do, providing you are returning goods under the DSR is to make any restocking fee, or ANY charge beyond the direct cost of collecting the goods. That is, whatever they pay the carrier, they charge you, and NO MORE.

However, to qualify for a refund under the DSR, you MUST comply with the DSR's requirements. They are :-

1) You notify the company in a permanent form (i.e. no phone calls, UNLESS they explicitly agree to that, and personally, I'd want that agreement in writing)

2) Within the required period, which is usually with 7 working days (i.e. excluding weekends and bank hols) starting the day after you receive the goods.

Personally, I've always found SVP to be exceptionally good in the Customer Service field, usually going above and beyond what they have to do, in order to ensure customers are satisfied. I doubt you'd get any grief from them over returning an order, especially at the moment. But as long as you use the DSR and comply with the needs, they don't have any choice anyway.






* There are exceptions to the right to cancel. I won't go through all of them, since it's not directly relevant, but they include :-

• CDs and DVD (audio, video or software) IF any shrinkwrap has been opened. The reason for that is pretty obvious.
  
• Magazine, periodical and newspaper subscriptions
  
• Customised goods, or made to order
  
• perishables, like fresh food or flowers

There are also simialr but slightly different provisions in relation to services, as opposed to goods.

[Saracen]

to be honest - "I'm having second thoughts about the order" is a disgraceful reason to refuse delivery.
Complaing about the shipping and get a refund - as your entitled to in my opinion but backing out of an order for no reason is rude

Morally or legally?

Legally, it's (with a few caveats, conditions and exceptions) enshrined in law. Mail order businesses get a lot of advantages over conventional high street businesses, especially in the area of minimising costs, but this is one cost that they have to bear as a result of doing business at a distance.

Even morally, the general case has more than one viewpoint. A LOT of customers would not buy goods by mail-order, and therefore effectively sight-unseen, without the right to return if not satisfied. That's why many mail-order outlets (such as clothing shops and catalogue sellers) have been offering various levels of ability to inspect and return for years ... or decades.

The DSR simply embeds a minimum level of that sort of consumer protection into statute, to protect consumers from goods that aren't what they expect (perhaps the colour isn't accurately portrayed by the catalogue), without having to contend with unclear conditions or exclusions that the company may impose into it's T&C's.

Will that be abused on occasions? Sure. But then, companies have been abusing consumers in various ways and to various extents for years. And, as by the time this situation crops up, they've got your money and are also far more likely to be able to afford to take legal advice and/or action, that it's not unreasonable for the consumer to be given a reasonable degree of statutory protection. It helps balance the situation to clearly define, in a way businesses cannot override (and may be cimmitting a criminal offence if they try) a minimal level of consumer protection.

And even once that protection went into statute, some companies STILL try to avoid their statutory duties. For instance, some try to tell you that the goods must not be opened. The DSR categorically does NOT say that. It merely requires the consumer to take "reasonable care". However, exactly what "reasonable care" means is open to dispute. The retailer is entitled to define what that means, but subject to his assertions being reasonable. Broadly, that's likely to mean the equivalent of the examination a buyer could reasonably give goods in a shop. So it may well mean you can take them out and look at them (such as to check the colour of clothes), but not that you can put them in a PC and power them up (as in PC components). But ultimately, it's for a court to decide what "reasonable care" means, and while a retailer can TRY to infer it means the packaging cannot be opened, that is VERY unlikely to stick if it goes before a court. And for a certainty, Trading Standards and the Departmemt of Trade and Industry are of the opinion that that is not what it means, and have issued guidance to business saying so. Of course, the courts are the actual arbiters of what the law means, not TS or the DTI.

So the point of the DSR is to give consumers roughly the same level of protection they'd have in a shop, and distance sellers will just have to accept that while the mail-order business model gives them many cost advantages over shops, there's a cost or two specifically attached to that model .... and people changing their mind is one of them. They still, IMHO, get a good deal compared to shops.


And on that basis, Ne0 is, in my view, both within his legal rights and perfectly justified in changing his mind if he wants. And, in my view, he has a decent reason for doing so.

[Tunnah]

...thats gotta be the most concise answer to a question i've ever seen

[ikonia]

I agree on the legal ground no issue, but I disagree that canceling an order because your "unsure of the order" is not the correct way to trade with businesses.

The view of "I'm not sure of the order" has been changed in a post or two's time to "I've replaced the order with discs from pc world."

If you needed the items by a specific date and they let you down so you went else where, no problem, but "not sure" is a different thing

[Ne0]

Thank you Saracen for your thorough reply. I can't seem to find the "thank" feature :/.

[s_kinton]

Thank you Saracen for your thorough reply. I can't seem to find the "thank" feature :/.

Its under each post, in between 'send pm' and 'quote'.

[Ne0]

Its under each post, in between 'send pm' and 'quote'.

I don't have anything between those two buttons, maybe because my post count is too low?

[Agent]

I don't have anything between those two buttons, maybe because my post count is too low?

Yup. We have it disabled for <25 posts IIRC to stop abuse.
Sorry!

Just remember to come back and do it in a few posts time

[mandrake]

hi neo

as I work in the retail industry over here in the states what may be happening is the order will be drop shipped(shipped either directly from the manufacturer or another distributor) the wait time would be 1-2 business days or 7-10 if the product is backordered. a simple call to the manufacturer can correct this and expedite your order(assuming this is the case)

X