first pc build - what do you think?

[Domestic_Ginger]

is it worth looking at the AMD phenom processors over the athlon II x4 620? ive read that although they are sold as dual core, it is possible to unlock another 2 cores in them... would this be doable for an amateur like me or would it be quite a tricky thing to do?

I presume yo mean the x2 and x3 Phenom II parts? Its not difficult at all to do; you need to change two or three bios settings and reboot; childs play! the stock coolers sold with these chips do not cope at all well when they are unlocked though so if you do manage an unlock you will need a better cooler. There is also only about 50% chance of getting an unlockable chip; although it may be better now. Not sure how helpful more cores are for music encoding. the AthlonII tricores are an okay bet for unlocking and you get at least three cores if it doesn't.

HDD playing up.... You will get a warranty so as long as you backup anything important you should be able to get a replacement. - I stress I am no expert here.

[Elkie]

I presume yo mean the x2 and x3 Phenom II parts? Its not difficult at all to do; you need to change two or three bios settings and reboot; childs play! the stock coolers sold with these chips do not cope at all well when they are unlocked though so if you do manage an unlock you will need a better cooler. There is also only about 50% chance of getting an unlockable chip; although it may be better now. Not sure how helpful more cores are for music encoding. the AthlonII tricores are an okay bet for unlocking and you get at least three cores if it doesn't.

well the reason i asked is i was poking around on ebay and came across this... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/New-AMD-Phenom...item1c0e731c3a
for about the same price as the processor mentioned above. theres a few up for auction as well that are going for a bit less... but would the processor i have already been recommended be a better buy?

HDD playing up.... You will get a warranty so as long as you backup anything important you should be able to get a replacement. - I stress I am no expert here.

yeah but to be honest id rather go for 2 more reliable HDs and not have to worry about sending them back for replacements... a guy i was talking to said he got through 2 1tb drives in 6 months, so now he is sticking to smaller drives until the technology is a bit more reliable... thing is the guy is using his machine for the same sort of stuff i plan to use mine for!

thanks again

[Ulti]

also, how does this RAM http://www.scan.co.uk/product.aspx?ProductId=24171 shape up against the RAM already mentioned? the only reason i ask is cause i know the corsair brand name, not really cause of the slight saving... but how do the specs compare?

Compared to the G.Skills I've mentioned previously, these run at a slower speed and a higher latency which is a lose-lose situation, they will run slower and the time lag between the data cycles will take longer. Sure it may not be that noticeable but why pay more for something slower?

To be honest Corsair RAM is a ripoff nowadays, for some reason all their RAM prices are always higher than everyone else's. I did use their RMA service though and it's great if that matters to you.

well the reason i asked is i was poking around on ebay and came across this... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/New-AMD-Phenom...item1c0e731c3a
for about the same price as the processor mentioned above. theres a few up for auction as well that are going for a bit less... but would the processor i have already been recommended be a better buy?

That processor is cheaper from Scan (£64 or £66 IIRC on Today's Only) and it'll be the C3 stepping which should have slightly better overclocking headroom, slightly better power consumption and less heat output or something I've heard. Personally I bought one myself and unlocked it and overclocked it to 3.6ghz easily. However, I cannot say that this will be the same case for you. The motherboard that I suggest before does indeed unlock cores as I used it myself (The MSI one).

yeah but to be honest id rather go for 2 more reliable HDs and not have to worry about sending them back for replacements... a guy i was talking to said he got through 2 1tb drives in 6 months, so now he is sticking to smaller drives until the technology is a bit more reliable... thing is the guy is using his machine for the same sort of stuff i plan to use mine for!

Not sure what's happening to the guy or what drives he's using (I'm guessing Seagate or Maxtor as they tend to fail more than WD and Samsung) but I've never heard of anything but good things for the Samsung F3 mostly. The thing with the Samsung F3s is that it's faster in general which means your whole system will seem faster. I'm getting an SSD soon and from what I've heard people say, an SSD will be the biggest upgrade one can see from a non-gaming/FPS perspective. They say that there's a much more noticeable difference from going to a SSD than upgrading from a dual core to a quad core. I'm currently using Western Digital's Caviar Black and I can certainly tell the difference between it and other hard drives. Boot time is quite a bit faster and things are just in general more responsive.

If you do go for a smaller drive, go for a Samsung F3 500GB or get the 640GB Western Digital Caviar Black.

[Elkie]

Compared to the G.Skills I've mentioned previously, these run at a slower speed and a higher latency which is a lose-lose situation, they will run slower and the time lag between the data cycles will take longer. Sure it may not be that noticeable but why pay more for something slower?

ok, thanks a lot, ill go for the G.skills then i think. the corsair RAM is actually slightly cheaper, as its on scan's today only at the minute, but only by a couple of quid, so its not going to make too much difference.

That processor is cheaper from Scan (£64 or £66 IIRC on Today's Only) and it'll be the C3 stepping which should have slightly better overclocking headroom, slightly better power consumption and less heat output or something I've heard. Personally I bought one myself and unlocked it and overclocked it to 3.6ghz easily. However, I cannot say that this will be the same case for you. The motherboard that I suggest before does indeed unlock cores as I used it myself (The MSI one).

ok, thanks for the heads up on it being cheaper on scan! do you think it would be worth going for this over the processor you originally suggested? to me it looks like a better deal, especially with the extra unlocked cores... is there something im missing here? overclocking looks a bit advanced for me, id rather not jeopardize the stability of the system if i can help it!

Not sure what's happening to the guy or what drives he's using (I'm guessing Seagate or Maxtor as they tend to fail more than WD and Samsung) but I've never heard of anything but good things for the Samsung F3 mostly. The thing with the Samsung F3s is that it's faster in general which means your whole system will seem faster. I'm getting an SSD soon and from what I've heard people say, an SSD will be the biggest upgrade one can see from a non-gaming/FPS perspective. They say that there's a much more noticeable difference from going to a SSD than upgrading from a dual core to a quad core. I'm currently using Western Digital's Caviar Black and I can certainly tell the difference between it and other hard drives. Boot time is quite a bit faster and things are just in general more responsive.

the guy didnt say what drives had failed on him, just that they were 1tb. i suspect it might have something to do with the high amount of reading/writing to the HD that is performed in audio editing. i have read a fair few reviews on the samsung F3 series, and they do seem to be one of the best drives available for the price, so whether i go for 500gb or 1tb, i am planning on getting one of them. SSD does look like the best option, and i can see them being something that comes down in price quite rapidly, so i am planning to pick one up at a later date. i have a small 2.5" drive from an old laptop already installed in the case i plan to use to back up an image of a fresh install of my OS and all key software, and also for the page file for my virtual memory, which is in an adaptor that holds 2 2.5" drives, so theres already a space available to fit an SSD.

[Domestic_Ginger]

£5 postage too on the ebay's 550. If it does unlock you'll need to spend another £15-20 on a cooler!


There is no guarantee the CPU will unlock. If it does it may not be completely stable. There is a chance it will work fine though. Do not rely on it unlocking. If you do want to try and unlock i have a suspicion that the 555 would be a better bet for unlocking unless it is much more expensive. My reasoning being that they must be getting higher yields on their Deneb cores now than previously.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I would be looking at the Athlon II X4 635 or Athlon II X3 440.

The X3 440 would be a better choice than an X4 620 due to its much higher clockspeed even though it has one core less.

However the OP needs to state which programmes they are using for their music production though as it may favour Intel or AMD processors or prefer higher single threaded performance over multi-threaded performance.

The OP also needs a copy of an OS too.

[Ulti]

ok, thanks a lot, ill go for the G.skills then i think. the corsair RAM is actually slightly cheaper, as its on scan's today only at the minute, but only by a couple of quid, so its not going to make too much difference.

ok, thanks for the heads up on it being cheaper on scan! do you think it would be worth going for this over the processor you originally suggested? to me it looks like a better deal, especially with the extra unlocked cores... is there something im missing here? overclocking looks a bit advanced for me, id rather not jeopardize the stability of the system if i can help it!

the guy didnt say what drives had failed on him, just that they were 1tb. i suspect it might have something to do with the high amount of reading/writing to the HD that is performed in audio editing. i have read a fair few reviews on the samsung F3 series, and they do seem to be one of the best drives available for the price, so whether i go for 500gb or 1tb, i am planning on getting one of them. SSD does look like the best option, and i can see them being something that comes down in price quite rapidly, so i am planning to pick one up at a later date. i have a small 2.5" drive from an old laptop already installed in the case i plan to use to back up an image of a fresh install of my OS and all key software, and also for the page file for my virtual memory, which is in an adaptor that holds 2 2.5" drives, so theres already a space available to fit an SSD.

Hard to say which processor to go for, in the worse case scenario, I'd say that the quad core is better than the dual core for what you're doing. However, if you do manage to unlock then obviously the 550 will be better. I'm not sure how much better it would be though. You'll have a faster clock speed and more L3 cache.

From a quick glance it seems it's just the number of cores that matters most and seems that more cache won't matter. I know for a fact that L3 cache is better for gaming but I'm not sure if it would be better than L2 cache for audio work. Here's what I just looked at briefly http://ixbtlabs.com/articles3/cpu/am...x4-620-p3.html

I'm not too sure how fast SSD prices will fall but for now I'd suggest to wait for a while and see how the technology improves and how price follows.

£5 postage too on the ebay's 550. If it does unlock you'll need to spend another £15-20 on a cooler!

There is no guarantee the CPU will unlock. If it does it may not be completely stable. There is a chance it will work fine though. Do not rely on it unlocking. If you do want to try and unlock i have a suspicion that the 555 would be a better bet for unlocking unless it is much more expensive. My reasoning being that they must be getting higher yields on their Deneb cores now than previously.

As Domestic_Ginger said, there's no guarantee it'll unlock. Not sure whether or not the 555 would be a better bet but if it does unlock you won't need to get a new cooler. CPU did not overheat with the stock cooler unlocked.

[Domestic_Ginger]

The price of teh 440 is more reasonable than i thought it would be. There are starting to be too many parts.

AMD Athlon II 425 X3 £54.42 2.7ghz 90% (cost %)
AMD Athlon II X3 435 £59.99 2.9ghz 100%
AMD Athlon II 425 X3 £66.05 3.0ghz 110%

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

The OP should also make sure that they setup their free Scan postage too:

http://forums.hexus.net/scan-care-he...tup-guide.html

http://forums.hexus.net/scan-care-he...0-07-08-a.html

[Elkie]

Hard to say which processor to go for, in the worse case scenario, I'd say that the quad core is better than the dual core for what you're doing. However, if you do manage to unlock then obviously the 550 will be better. I'm not sure how much better it would be though. You'll have a faster clock speed and more L3 cache.

hmmm ok thanks, so really its down to whether i want to take the chance to see if i can unlock the cores or not... is there anyway i can try and ensure they will be unlockable or is it literally just down to chance?

From a quick glance it seems it's just the number of cores that matters most and seems that more cache won't matter. I know for a fact that L3 cache is better for gaming but I'm not sure if it would be better than L2 cache for audio work. Here's what I just looked at briefly http://ixbtlabs.com/articles3/cpu/am...x4-620-p3.html

ive been told by several people that i shoud go for a high spec dual core rather than a lower spec quad for audio stuff. i dont really understand the difference between the different caches at all, so ill have a look at this link, thanks.

As Domestic_Ginger said, there's no guarantee it'll unlock. Not sure whether or not the 555 would be a better bet but if it does unlock you won't need to get a new cooler. CPU did not overheat with the stock cooler unlocked.

yeah im aware ill need a new cooler, but for such a boost in performance i dont mind shelling out the extra £20 or so.

you said youd had success with the MSI board in unlocking cores, which processor was this with? does that mean if i was to buy the processor you had already unlocked cores on, i would definately be able to do the same with mine? or is it down to different batches and stuff like that? i googled it quickly, and found this http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...m-ii,2273.html which seemed even more confusing... how can where you buy the processor from make a difference to whether the cores are unlockable or not?

thanks for putting up with me for so long guys!

[Elkie]

The OP should also make sure that they setup their free Scan postage too:

http://forums.hexus.net/scan-care-he...tup-guide.html

http://forums.hexus.net/scan-care-he...0-07-08-a.html

hi, thanks for posting this, i already have done though!

[Domestic_Ginger]

yeah im aware ill need a new cooler, but for such a boost in performance i dont mind shelling out the extra £20 or so.

you said youd had success with the MSI board in unlocking cores, which processor was this with? does that mean if i was to buy the processor you had already unlocked cores on, i would definately be able to do the same with mine? or is it down to different batches and stuff like that? i googled it quickly, and found this http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...m-ii,2273.html which seemed even more confusing... how can where you buy the processor from make a difference to whether the cores are unlockable or not?

thanks for putting up with me for so long guys!

Ulti and I are in disagreement on whether you would need a new cooler I say yes Ulti says no. Experience vs. pragmatism. I argue that the 955 comes with a better cooler and is 125W. As soon as you unlock your 80/90W TDP 550 it becomes a 125W one. I'm not sure we are going to agree although I respect Ulti's experience on this.

Different suppliers were sent different batchs. Not sure the batchs mean that much tbh unless you can corralate batchs of 955/965 vs 550/555s if that makes any sense. You are relying on people buying more dual cores than were being manufactured/rejected so they had to bin the quads. there is also a chance of getting a tri from a dual.

If a very fast dual core is whats needed have you considered the i3? I am not really up to date on that area or the price increase over an athlonII.

you're ot a burden; Its good to chat!

[Ulti]

hmmm ok thanks, so really its down to whether i want to take the chance to see if i can unlock the cores or not... is there anyway i can try and ensure they will be unlockable or is it literally just down to chance?

It's literally down to chance, I've seen people saying that sometimes a whole batch will be unlockable hence why some people say buy from a certain retailer.

ive been told by several people that i shoud go for a high spec dual core rather than a lower spec quad for audio stuff. i dont really understand the difference between the different caches at all, so ill have a look at this link, thanks.

I don't think this is true, looking at the benchmark results for the Phenom II X2 550 and the Athlon II X4 620, it seems like the Athlon II X4 620 wins in every case even with no L3 cache and a lower stock speed. Here's the same benchmarks as before but with the Phenom II 550 http://ixbtlabs.com/articles3/cpu/am...-2-250-p3.html It's a shame they don't show all the quads and dual cores on one graph.

yeah im aware ill need a new cooler, but for such a boost in performance i dont mind shelling out the extra £20 or so.

If you unlock the Phenom II X2 550 and don't overclock it then you won't really need a new cooler.

you said youd had success with the MSI board in unlocking cores, which processor was this with? does that mean if i was to buy the processor you had already unlocked cores on, i would definately be able to do the same with mine? or is it down to different batches and stuff like that? i googled it quickly, and found this http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...m-ii,2273.html which seemed even more confusing... how can where you buy the processor from make a difference to whether the cores are unlockable or not?

This was with the Sempron 140. I've read that although some processors have unlocked on one board, it didn't manage to unlock stably on another board due to AMD getting motherboard manufacturers to start locking down the core unlocking option. However, I haven't seen this really being put into practice so I'm guessing it will be. I bought a Phenom II 550 off eBay and managed to unlock it on my Asus M4A79XTD-Evo and get it to 3.6ghz. I sold it back on eBay advertising that it's stable as a quad and the guy who bought it confirmed it worked for them too and they had a Asrock motherboard.

As explained before, some people believe that some batches of processors are likely to unlock more easily than others and as processors are usually shipped in a batch to retailers, if one is able to be unlocked then people believe that the others are able to be unlocked too. I haven't really researched this so I'm not too sure if it's true though.

[Ulti]

Ulti and I are in disagreement on whether you would need a new cooler I say yes Ulti says no. Experience vs. pragmatism. I argue that the 955 comes with a better cooler and is 125W. As soon as you unlock your 80/90W TDP 550 it becomes a 125W one. I'm not sure we are going to agree although I respect Ulti's experience on this.

Well the way I see things is that if they don't reach their thermal limit and don't have any problems with them on full load, then they haven't overheated.

The Phenom 550 unlocked at 3.1ghz (stock speed) with the stock AMD cooler with no heatpipes and the 80mm fan hit around 52 degrees at load and around 33 degrees on idle. I think this was with the cooler on max speed though but I can't remember. I just remember it was loud.

A thought that may be worth considering is that as the OP is doing audio work, it might be better to get a 120mm tower cooler because I find the stock AMD cooler quite loud.

[Elkie]

ok, i think im gonna take the risk and go for the phenom processor...

just a couple more questions (last time i promise, hoping to order everything tonight!)

ive read that i need a motherboard with a certain chipset to allow the AAC to unlock the extra cores within the phenom... can anyone point me in the direction of a decent motherboard that will allow this?

and ive seen this RAM too... the timing look a bit lower on it, and its slightly cheaper, would this be a better deal? http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showpr...atid=8&subcat=

cheers once again guys! i can see the light at the end of the tunnel...

[Ulti]

ive read that i need a motherboard with a certain chipset to allow the AAC to unlock the extra cores within the phenom... can anyone point me in the direction of a decent motherboard that will allow this?

and ive seen this RAM too... the timing look a bit lower on it, and its slightly cheaper, would this be a better deal? http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showpr...atid=8&subcat=

The motherboards I mentioned before both support it. Pretty much any AM3 motherboard with SB710 or SB750 southbridge chips will. You may need to flash the motherboard to the newest BIOS though (I had to with the MSI).

That RAM is indeed good, go for it!