Abit AN8 Ultra based machine crashes on OS install

[8bit]

Hi,

I just put together a machine for a friend (Abit AN8 Ultra, Ath64 3500 Venice, 512mb Elixir PC3200, Maxtor Diamondmax 10 80Gb and 200Gb) and the machine crashes at random points during OS install. I say OS instead of XP as it does it when attempting to install Fedora Linux as well, different error messages obvioulsy but similar in that it happens at random points during install.

We returned the original HD (200Gb) thinking it may have been faulty, came back saying it was fine. Got the 80Gb one as well anyway and it does the same thing. Tried removing each of the RAM sticks, same story with either. Tried flashing the BIOS and are using the latest version of the SATA drivers off Abit's site. Have tried disabling all non-essential integrated things like network, USB controller, Firewire controller, all that sort of stuff, still random crashes.

The crash messages vary, usually BSODs with IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL or occasionally PFN_LIST_CORRUPT (no idea what that means). Sometimes if it gets as far as the graphical screen after the first reboot where it says "Installing Devices" it tells us that almost every device in the system has not passed Windows Logo Testing and we have to confirm we want to install the drivers for them (things like floppy disk drive, PS/2 keyboard, all the basic stuff).

I personally suspect the cheap, nasty PSU that came with the case. It's an EZ COOL 400w model. It has no SATA connectors so had to buy a couple of converters. It's also got no PCIe power connectors so that and no SATA power makes me think it's an older type. Also it only has a 20-pin and a 4-pin connector for the motherboard power, the larger connector on the board is the newer style 24-pin so there's 4 pins left free on the board when it's attached to the PSU. Does this mean it's the wrong type of PSU for the board? Would using a good one like a Seasonic or Akasa sort the problem out?

TIA
8bit

[jimborae]

I would personally suspect the ram as well as the psu but then I seem to constantly say that when peeps have trouble with an AN8 Ultra.

Elixir is not exactly great ram so download memtest 86 to a floppy disk & run it & see if the memory is giving errors or not. The AN8 Ultra can be very picky when it comes to ram.

[BUFF]

PSU & RAM are usual culprits.
1 thing that the AN8 does is set Vdimm to 2.6V by default but a lot of RAM doesn't like that.
Try setting 2.7V or higher.

[8bit]

I did try the RAM up as high as 2.8v I think, certainly went at least as far as 2.7, didn't seem to make much difference.

My own PSU (akasa 460w paxpower) has an adaptor cable to convert the 20pin into a 24 and it says that this must be used on these types of motherboard. This is partly what leads me to suspect the PSU isn't fully compatible with the motherboard since the PSU in my mates machine only connects to 20 of the 24-pins on the motherboard...

I'll get memtest86 and give that a shot. Meantime if anyones got any further thoughts please post them!

Thanks so far
8bit

[jimborae]

My AN8 Ultra works fine with a 20 pin psu (PC P&C 510w deluxe) and it does say in the manual that it should work with a 20 pin psu. However mine is a very high quality one so that may make a difference.

[8bit]

Hmm well this is an EZ COOL PSU included with a £40 case so I wouldn't trust it as far as I could throw it using The Force. I'll test the RAM tomorrow. I guess if that's clear then it's either the PSU or the CPU. Doesn't strike me as likely the CPU tho given the randomness of the crashes. Anyone think any differently?

TIA
8bit

[jimborae]

Nope, that sounds sensible

[8bit]

Hmm...

OK, tested both 256Mb PC3200 sticks of his Elixir in dual channel mode on his AN8 Ultra using Memtest86. By test 5 there were some 17,000-odd errors. Bingo, methinks, thats our culprit. Tested my aria own brand (arianet) PC4000 in my PC and it tested fine. Put my RAM in his PC and the machine tests fine and installs XP. "Sorted!"

However, it won't boot with ANY USB devices attached at all, mouse, keyboard, pen drive, nothing, nor will it recognise them when plugged in even with drivers installed. it also seems to refuse to boot or freeze up periodically as well, did it during SP2 install earlier. I'm still thinking power is an issue as it seems to work a little better with less devices drawing from the PSU (second HDD, DVD-RW, neon tube, non-essential integrated stuff etc)...

Also, I put his (apparently dodgy) Elixir into my own Asus A8V Deluxe based machine and it tests fine. I'm running on it right now. So his Elixir PC3200 RAM won't pass memtest86 on his AN8 Ultra but my arianet (even cheaper brand, OEM'd Kingmax stuff) PC4000 will, and what's more his RAM works on mine. So guys looks at least like you were right about the AN8 Ultra not liking certain RAM.

I'm going to try my PSU (akasa paxpower 460w) in his rig and see if that clears up the rest of the problems. So, can anyone recommend some relatively cheap RAM that they know works on an AN8 Ultra?

TAIA
8bit

[jimborae]

Sorry I mainly use high end ram. I do have some TwinMos Speed Premium kicking about which I could test if you like.

[8bit]

any idea about it refusing to boot with any USB devices attached? In fact I'll create another thread about this as its really a separate issue.

[8bit]

Right, that machine is all sorted except for the memory.

To recap, the Elixir PC3200 stuff we bought for it tests really bad with memtest86 (as in about 17,000-20,000 errors on test 5) in the AN8 Ultra. It tests and runs fine on my Asus A8V Deluxe.

I can get the memory to test OK if I drop the speed down to DDR200 or DDR266 on standard voltages and SPD timings. DDR333 or above fails, upping volts from 2.6 to 2.85 makes little discernable difference. I started playing with the timings. CPU-Z on my Asus told me the following timings for the Elixir RAM:

CAS# Latency = 3.0
RAS# to CAS# delay = 3
RAS# Precharge = 3
Cycle Time = 8
Bank Cycle Time = 11
DRAM Idle Timer = 16

I put the Elixir RAM back into the AN8 Ultra and got confused in the BIOS. Some of the timing fields in the DRAM config match the terms above from CPU-Z, some don't and there a few more in the AN8 Ultra BIOS than above as well. I tried the obvious looking ones with still no success at DDR333 or above, even with the voltages up a little. In the BIOS we have the following fields:

CAS Latency Time
Row Cycle Time
Row Refresh Cycle Time
RAS# to CAS# delay
RAS# to RAS# delay
Min. RAS# Active Time
RAS# precharge time
Write recovery time
Write to read delay
DRAM Command Rate
Burst length

Can anyone help me match up what values from CPU-Z should go in which of the fields in the BIOS? What should I do about the other fields? I haven't got access to the AN8 ultra machine today or I would have given the SPD values.

I don't understand why a motherboard that runs RAM at PC3200 should have to be messed about with to get some standard PC3200 RAM working in it. I've put Elixir RAM into a Gigabyte NForce4 (non ultra) before and had no problems at all. Should I just give up on it altogether?

[BUFF]

I don't understand why a motherboard that runs RAM at PC3200 should have to be messed about with to get some standard PC3200 RAM working in it. I've put Elixir RAM into a Gigabyte NForce4 (non ultra) before and had no problems at all. Should I just give up on it altogether?

Abit's performance motherboards traditionally have pretty agressive memory access because they aren't expected to be used with "value" RAM.
Elixir imo is low on the pecking order of RAM.

[8bit]

I see your point, but the RAM is sold rated as to run at PC3200 speeds on SPD voltages and timings. The board is sold as being able to work with standard PC3200 RAM so there's the rub, what they don't tell you is that for no readily apparent reason at all that memory doesn't work with that board. My RAM is aria's own brand stuff (CPU-Z says it's made by Kingmax tho, dunno if that's meant to be any better than Elixir) so I'd have thought it would have spat the dummy at that stuff as well...