"Safari on Windows is cack" - harsh or spot on?

[Steve]

Apple decided to try to start a new browser war, introducing Safari for Windows yesterday. But it doesn't look like anyone but a hardcore Apple fanboi would want to use it, if The Inquirer's impressions of it are anything to go by:

It's a beta and features such betazoid features as a total inability to save any changes to preferences (at least when running under Vista), possibly due to the absence of a 'save' button on any of the preferences dialogues.

OK, so it's a beta, but how much can you polish a turd?

[kalniel]

OK, so it's a beta, but how much can you polish a turd?

Are you having a grumpy few days Steve??

[Steve]

Heh. Well I am a bit of a (well, a massive) Apple hater, but I try to curb that most of the time.

That aside: From the perspective of a software developer, a beta, or rather, a public beta, should be pretty damn close to the final product. You simply do not let people get their hands on cack code, unless you're running an open-source project where you want them to fix that cack code.

[nichomach]

OK, so it's a beta, but how much can you polish a turd?

No, see, removing the button was deliberate...they're trying to maintain a consistent look-and-feel:

And the answer is lots, but you have to paint it white and call it the iTurd first...

[Funkstar]

...but you have to paint it white...

Then black.... then reduce the size and use pink, blue, green, orange and silver.... then shrink it again....(etc)

[nichomach]

*chortle* *cuddles Sandisk Sansa e280*

[GeorgeTuk]

TBH, its pretty poor. Most forms don't work (far more than Firefox), the text rendering is rubbish and the blocker is no good against consistent strong and clever websites.

Also it doesn't fit the theme of Windows.

Not many use it on OSX so why do they think Windows users will?

[chuckskull]

Not many use it on OSX so why do they think Windows users will?

That sums up my thoughts. Safari just isn't a very good browser and hasn't been for a long time. Compared with the likes of opera FF and even IE7 it's got a lot of catching up to do.

Then again if they renamed it iBrowse millions of fanboys would download it and swear it was the best, fastest and most secure browser in the world.

[Gordy]

The original article is a joke you can save preferences on vista. You just don't have a save button it works just like every other mac app.

Just close the preferences window and its saved.

I've changed lots of preferences and it is all saved. Me thinks this a case user error. Or more a case of to stuck in Microsoft's mode.

[nichomach]

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight...but it's not ON a Mac, is it? There's a reason why the vast majority of Windows apps have similar interfaces; so that using them will be easier for people who've used other Windows apps. If an app functions differently from the vast, overwhelming majority of apps on that platform, and a user is confused or misled as a consequence, then sorry, that's not the user's problem, that's the app's problem.

[Gordy]

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight...but it's not ON a Mac, is it? There's a reason why the vast majority of Windows apps have similar interfaces; so that using them will be easier for people who've used other Windows apps. If an app functions differently from the vast, overwhelming majority of apps on that platform, and a user is confused or misled as a consequence, then sorry, that's not the user's problem, that's the app's problem.

I'm sorry thats utter rubbish, why should you need to press apply for everything you do in the windows world? What is that button doing that couldn't be done behind the scene's. If that button isn't there what would any sensible person assume? Oh yes its not needed.

Should all future applications follow a faulty method just because everyone else does?

There are also quite a few applications out there that don't require you to save changes by pressing apply they just work.

[nichomach]

Because you might change your mind? Properly designed windows apps let you change a bunch of preferences/options, make sure they're what you want, and then explicitly approve them. That's not faulty, it's sensible (hint - it's why the cancel button's there too). If Safari isn't doing that, then of course it's going to lead to confusion or misunderstanding. I'd also argue that explicit confirmation/cancellation is a HELL of a lot clearer than just closing the dialog box. Indeed, I'd say that it's close to being deliberately obfuscatory/obstructive; and when you get right down to it, if Windows users wanted a Mac, they'd buy a Mac.

[Craig321]

Apple decided to try to start a new browser war, introducing Safari for Windows yesterday. But it doesn't look like anyone but a hardcore Apple fanboi would want to use it, if The Inquirer's impressions of it are anything to go by:OK, so it's a beta, but how much can you polish a turd?

It's a decent browser & I'd use it if I had to. It's nothing special though.

Firefox for the win!

[Funkstar]

Do Macs still have that immensly stupid 'feature' when if you are renaming a file and press "esc" it actually renames the file with an escape character, thereby making it have no name at all.

To me this is exactly the same as having no cancel or save button on a form.

The onlu exception i can think of in windows is the Registy, you don't have to save it, once the data is changed it is changed. But when you realise it is just a large database, that is file, all databases are like that.

[dangel]

Cor, next you'll be justifying lotus note's super annoying habit of using F5 to mean 'log me out' instead of 'refresh' (aka the windows standard)

Most commonly you either OK the changes by pressing the button marked thus, or cancel them either with a CANCEL button (shocking) or closing the dialog box. I can see (immediately) why Windows folk would question whether their settings are saved - I know I would. APPLY is horribly misunderstood - it's original intention was to allow you to force changes to take effect whilst the dialog is still open but most users will happily click APPLY and then OK as well (to make double sure lol). I'm not keen on this and basically avoid it (in most situations it's irrelevant).

Out of interest, how do you cancel changes you've made (is there a cancel button as well?) in this case?

[Gordy]

Out of interest, how do you cancel changes you've made (is there a cancel button as well?) in this case?

You just go back an undo them.

Firefox has similiar options for example there isn't an ok/cancel/apply for organising the bookmarks. The fact is there are instances even on windows where the same buttons are missing, eg the registry.

I fail to see how someone with a brain could get confused by not seeing the traditional ok/cancel/apply buttons. And I deal with users of all levels every day.