Headlines - Very PC MD responds to Dragon?s Den mauling

[Nick]

So membership of the Hexus forums automatically protects people from the terrible affliction of idiocy? What a community this must truly be.

That's your opinion and, unless you've invented some device that can measure someone's IQ by their posts on a forum, keep your opinion to yourself.

i really don't know of a milder, more family friendly term for someone who denies climate change,

How about 'climate change denier'?

infact idiot is atleast giving them the benefit of the doubt that they are not lying/twisting things for their own gain like the actually backers of the denial lobby who've pumped millions into mudding the waters and creating an artificial debate over the reality of climate change.

Maybe so but the fact is that there's equal amounts of research to both confirm and refute global warming... and the pro-warming campaign is hardly helped by evangelistic doomsayers who do little to help their cause by labelling those who they feel are less educated on the subject as idiots.

I'm also curious as to how far this ban on 'insulting' people goes, if someone denied the holocaust would I be entitled to call them an idiot, if they made arguments that were racist, sexist or homophobe? (examples of which are dotted through out the Hexus forums btw) which to my mind are far more insulting than being called an idiot.

It's common courtesy more than anything and, to be perfectly frank, I shouldn't have to be giving lessons in basic manners to someone who clearly has the intelligence to use a computer. Would you call a checkout operator an idiot if they made an honest mistake with your change? I should hope not. And if you did think that was acceptable, I really hope I never bump into you in the real world.

Dragging up subjects such as the Holocaust, (note the capitalisation), as your defence for calling someone an idiot on a tech forum is just a cheap shot defence. Try it if you get a parking ticket you think is unfair and see how far it gets you. If you honestly had a clue, had maybe visited the museum at Auschwitz II and seen the shoes or gone to the Memorial to the Murdered Jews of Europe in Berlin and felt the foreboding, then maybe you wouldn't leap to such defence so readily. Six million men, women and children dead so you can defend your rudeness. That's horrific, shocking arrogance.

And for every example you can give me of racist, sexist or homophobic behaviour I can show you a dozen more where it's quite clear that the vast majority of members are a tolerant, friendly bunch... hell, even those that have had massive arguments over the tiniest of disagreements have managed to do so in good humour and without resorting to name-calling or insults.

Now either you're a really big, hard as nails kung fu master or you're constantly in and out of A+E because anyone walking around with an attitude such as yours would get people's backs up very quickly. Unless it's the third option and you're just like this once you're behind a keyboard.

People claiming global warming is a fiction insult everyones intelligence, I see no reason to care that they be insulted by being called idiots anymore than flat earthers or creationists.

Ok, so if you don't care, why care about global warming? You're perfectly happy to go on the offensive but at the same time you don't care? Or is it that those with a differing view from yours should be instantly dismissed as ignorant because you have all the real, true and irrefutable facts? If so, then why the hell are you wasting your time on here? You have all the answers to save mankind!

I rather suspect that you've drawn your own conclusions, perhaps got the box set of Al Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth" and have got Everest coming round to fit some solar panels. But whilst you're clambering onto what you perceive to be the moral high ground, (might be handy if the seas rise anyway), you seem to have lost sight of the fact that everyone is entitled to an opinion. And they're entitled to express that opinion without fear of personal attack.

And before you even think of telling me about your right to free speech, I'll just cough and politely remind you that the HEXUS.community is run by HEXUS and a highly valued group of unpaid admins and mods. This isn't a free speech arena. If you want to exercise your right to free speech, start your own forums or head off to Speaker's Corner.

As for the expected response comment, have you any idea what that sounds like? What was the expected response, to fall on two knees and thank the mod for having such mercy when they could so easily have elected to swot me like a fly?

Well, I guess Saracen wasn't expecting something as childish as this last remark... can you not see that by being so puerile all you're doing is undermining all of your arguments? Any serious point you make is pretty much forgotten with comments like that.

All I can say in answer is that no, we don't expect anyone to fall on their knees and hail the mods as lord of the web. but we do expect everyone to behave like reasonable human beings and be civil to one another. If you can't do that or, as I suspect the case will be, you feel that others on the forums aren't deserving of civil treatment from you, then I strongly suggest you go elsewhere.

The choice is yours.

[revol68]

why such nihlism? (is that the right word? )

everyone has the right to air their views on the matter (whether they be the same, or whether they be different) without being told that they are 'idiots'..
and seeing as though calling someone an 'idiot' is deemed as verbal abuse (in company), it is acceptable on the ground of HEXUS to perpetuate a low tolerance of any issues of users at each others throats. OBV it is up to the mods what is said in a joking fashion and what is not...

but the fact of the matter is global warming would occur naturally if humans were not around... the fact that we are here merely speeds up the process... afterall, we are still coming out of an iceage, so one should expect global temperature to fluctuate...
but that does not deny you, your own views on the subject... and your right to air them in public.

but TBPH there is no way of providing infallible evidence for/against the situation... so in a way... everyone is an 'idiot'... it's all guess work and predicting whether to ignore it and suffer the consequences (if it is true), or do something and suffer the consequences (if it is wrong)

but to set it out..

do something: it happens : economic downturn world suffers anyway
do something: it doesn't happen : economic downturn, world suffers
don't do anything: it happens : (according to all the hype everything assplodes and dies)
don't do anything: it doesn't happen : the world is fine and carries on as normal....

so there is a 3/4 chance of the world suffering.... a 100% chance of suffering if something is done, and a 50% chance of suffering if something isn't done... which to me looks better towards not doing anything...

obviously that is just my take on the scenario.. and people can 'poopoo' it all they like, but i'm steadfast in my views

What poorly understood relativist nonsense (and no nihilism is not at all the correct word).

Respecting someones right to have an opinion is not at all the same as having to respect that persons views or for that matter not to hold them with contempt because they hold that view.

Interestingly your unbelievably absurd argument put forward about global warming is actually more befitting of an epistemological nihilism, throwing out such superflous things like research, data and scientific modelling which all say greenhouse gases account for atleast 80% of global warming,in favour of an absurd multiple choice question in which the probability of all answers is weighed exactly the same.

Honestly you couldn't make this sort of crap up.

And yes obviously this is just your take on the scenario, frankly i couldn't imagine such nonsense finding much resonance beyond the peculiar limits of one persons mind, and yes i'm free to poo poo it as much as I want, infact it could almost go on for infinity the two of us claiming our repsective opinions are correct, thankfully however most of us have found a neat way of circumnavigating such an impasse by appealling to such things as facts, figures, and reason rather than entirely subjective brain farts.

[TAKTAK]

global temperature fluctuations in history........


recent temperature fluctuations......


HANGONAMINUTE!!11!!

it seems to fit perfectly...

special note being taken to the fact that early temperature variation spikes at around 3c higher...

and the fact that we are coming out of an iceage....... temperatures will go up... and they will go down again...

you cannot base any theories in recent temperature changes you need to base them on temperature samples obtained by examination of deep ice.. over vast distances of time.

and as the earth heats up, the water evapourates which releases the CO2 which adds to the greenhouse effect in a natural manner.

[revol68]

Firstly thanks for the lecture on the holocaust (and the capitalisation), however the whole point of using the holocaust was because exactly of it's extremism, the fact that it does test the limits of 'tolerance', ie should we tolerate or respect those that would seek to deny it happened? I was not making it an equivalent to a climate change denier, I certainly would be using much stronger language to a holocaust denier and i would think justifably so. Now considering that millions of people will face losing their homes and lives through global warming I should think those people denying it should consider the term idiot as extremely charitable, just as HIV/AIDS "skeptics" should.

As for Climate Change itself, no I haven't watch Al Gore's film, nor bought into the wonderful array of environmental 'lifestyle' brands and consumer products that are designed more to appeal to a niche middle class poseurs than to radically address the a much deeper rooted problem. I am well aware that climatec change is being used in such a way that the costs and taxes are being externalised by state and business onto Joe and Joanna Bloggs, with us all suppoused to feel guilty about our cheap flight to Barcelona. What none of these concerns and criticisms of the managing of climate change does is change one iota the fact climate change is happening that bar a few contrarians and deliberate mystifiers (see those peedling the line about solar activity being responsible) the vast, vast majority of scientific data, research and literature all points to human produced green house gases being responsible for atleast 80% of temperature rises and that this rise is causing rising sea levels, more extreme weather (more energy in the worlds weather systems does that) and all the human suffering that entails.

There are many interesting debates as to how we deal with the issue of climate change, the "debate" as to whether or not it is happening however is simply a non event being promoted by a few with very clear interests in stirring up doubt and controversy to stifle any pratical measures that would impose upon their profits. It's a strategy referred to as inertia creating and in it's doubt sewing and disingenous appeals to a 'fair hearing' (it gets far more of a hearing than the science warrants thanks to it's very wealthy backers) and reliance on a kind of crude epistemological relativism it has much in common with the proponents of teaching Intelligent Design in schools.

I actually find it hilarious that such an innocuous and weak 'insult' like idiot has prompted such hysterical reactions, afterall most of us are tough enough and ugly enough to get over being called an idiot on an internet bulletin, it's certainly warranting of far less attention than the fact people are denying climate change with no evidence beyond whimsy conjecture or bankrupt espitemological relativism that far from being disinterested sits perfectly behind the agenda of climate change deniers and their strategy of inertia creating.

So if it gets us back on track to discussing the actual issues and stops people dodging the actual facts of the matter by whinging about such a ineffectual word as idiot I will no longer call climate deniers it, instead i'll refer to them as "rocket scientists".

[revol68]

global temperature fluctuations in history........


recent temperature fluctuations......


HANGONAMINUTE!!11!!

it seems to fit perfectly...

special note being taken to the fact that early temperature variation spikes at around 3c higher...

and the fact that we are coming out of an iceage....... temperatures will go up... and they will go down again...

you cannot base any theories in recent temperature changes you need to base them on temperature samples obtained by examination of deep ice.. over vast distances of time.

and as the earth heats up, the water evapourates which releases the CO2 which adds to the greenhouse effect in a natural manner.

One question what tangiable thing is actually heating the earth up? You can't simply claim it'srising because it's rising and it's some vague 'natural process', account for the process, show that it's actually independent of human activity.

The graphs of course you show are over hundreds of thousands of years, with all the extremes that such massive geological time gives rise to, it doesn't however tell us what is causing the rapidly rising temperatures within a century, or why solar activity which was previously linked quite tightly to global temperatures haven't been since the 70's.

This deals with the water vapour 'non argument',

and this one with that other climate change denial stalwart, 'we're coming out of an ice age'

[azrael316]

Wow, started reading a thread about a locally based company , and suddenly its all about Holocaust denial, Global Warming, and people being idiots.

Personally, I think Global Warming is still up for debate, nowhere near enough research has been done on either side to make a definative statement of fact, and until there is those with ill informed opinions, based on other peoples opinions, should really try to keep schtum and not act like

[Scott B]

One question what tangiable thing is actually heating the earth up? You can't simply claim it'srising because it's rising and it's some vague 'natural process', account for the process, show that it's actually independent of human activity.

The graphs of course you show are over hundreds of thousands of years, with all the extremes that such massive geological time gives rise to, it doesn't however tell us what is causing the rapidly rising temperatures within a century, or why solar activity which was previously linked quite tightly to global temperatures haven't been since the 70's.

While you can't prove that global warming is entirely a result of natural causes, neither can you currently, conclusively prove it's anthropogenic.

To adopt such a dogmatic stance while uncertainty remains is irrational and implies an ulterior motive - possibly your apparent need to consider yourself intellectual as, to your credit, you see through all the middle class preachy stuff.

Either way, it doesn't serve your argument well to be both dogmatic and abusive. It merely discredits you as an individual, presumably the opposite of what you're trying to achieve.

[TAKTAK]

One question what tangiable thing is actually heating the earth up? You can't simply claim it'srising because it's rising and it's some vague 'natural process', account for the process, show that it's actually independent of human activity.

1: natural rotation of the sun creates changes due to the intensity of sunlight as the sun moves closer to the earth's surface.

2: aerosol emissions of volcanic eruptions

3: Carbon dioxide emissions from volcanic eruptions creating greenhouse gas

4: Ocean Currents have a signifiant effect on heat changes around the earth. The effect of ocean current on heat changes, varies from region to region and this may be related to the rotation of the sun.



but noones views are currently 100% right... there is no way to prove or disprove the respective opposing party...

as i have said before, there is evidence towards and against global warming and it practically balances out.

therefore i suggest that we all stop bickering in this thread and move over to the climate changes thread and continue there, if it is really necessary, instead of dragging this thread more and more into the ground.

[nichomach]

Maybe so but the fact is that there's equal amounts of research to both confirm and refute global warming... and the pro-warming campaign is hardly helped by evangelistic doomsayers who do little to help their cause by labelling those who they feel are less educated on the subject as idiots.

Whilst rebuking revol68 for labelling those who disagree with him as idiots is undeniably justified, this is simply untrue. For reference, see The Royal Society's helpful notes on climate change myths. The scientific consensus is that anthropogenic climate change is real and serious, Channel 4 polemics disguised as documentaries notwithstanding.