News - Microsoft Windows 7 to ship without built-in e-mail functionality?

[Funkstar]

Would be nice if the installer gave you the choice, defaulting to nothing but the base OS and leaving you to check all the boxes of the apps you want.

IIRC, that's how it was back in the 3.1 era.....

I'm pretty sure you could select which components you wanted right up to XP, but it and Vista have dropped the option in the normal setup. You can probably specify not to install things if you are using a custom install script, but thats too much hastle for most.

[Neo_VR]

I'm pretty sure you could select which components you wanted right up to XP, but it and Vista have dropped the option in the normal setup. You can probably specify not to install things if you are using a custom install script, but thats too much hastle for most.

Vista installs pretty much everything out the box... there is a menu buried deep in the control panel to remove it all again.. i mean why install tablet PC extensions on a desktop??!

Trying to think about this from a neutral perspective though.. everyone on Hexus are computer enthusiasts.. so we are all bound to whinge about windows being bloated.. but dont forget if we got our way, it would alienate the majority of the user base who just want a system to browse, write emails, manage their photos etc on.. my grandparents have a Dell PC with vista, and they are getting on just fine with the standard applications...

[Spud1]

Bah thats annoying, one of the massive advantages of Windows is that you get basic applictions right out of the box.

So I can use a simple text editor (notepad is a godsend, and wordpad does for RTF files), I can use a simple image editor (paint/pbrush - still an excellent app), I can browse the web (IE - regardless of the microsoft "hateboys" it does the job), I can listen to music (Windows Media Player), heck I can even convert videos to run on my pocket pc (movie maker).

If any of those features go then Microsoft are really making a terrible choice - web based applications are "OK" to play with or for basics when you don't have anything else, but really a web application will never be as good as a real, native application.

The better solution would be to make them optional components (as has been mentioned). So by default you get all the useful applications, but you can decide not to remove them. They have no logical reason to remove them for anti-competition reasons (the EU was retarded enough for complaining about the inclusion of media player), so the only reason I can think of is that they want to push the live suite...which just isn't that good.

The problem is that when you remove all of the above, you really make Windows much less attractive as an OS..the reasons to use it over Linux or OSX start to vanish bit by bit - and that is getting even more accurate by the day as more and more software is released cross platform - all major games already appear for OSX as well as windows, and the big productivity apps like office, photoshop and the like are already cross platform...very odd choice imo.

[TAKTAK]

soooo... removing windows movie maker... hopefully there will be less crappily edited videos on youtube

[lodore]

does that mean IE wont be intergrated in to the OS anymore?
if so woot!
i hope they arent web only apps thou.
would be annoying if you couldnt use standard apps if not online.
optional componants is a great idea.

[TheAnimus]

does that mean IE wont be intergrated in to the OS anymore?
if so woot!
i hope they arent web only apps thou.
would be annoying if you couldnt use standard apps if not online.

Try running vista.

[lodore]

Try running vista.

ive been running vista for about 9 months lol.
IE is still quite intergrated as far as i know. still cant easily uninstall it.
glad that with vista windows update is seprate.

[TheAnimus]

err you can quite easily remove the 'IE' bit.

The problem is the network libraries which IE sits atop are still there, and well they have to be or people like me would find distrabuting their software a royal pain in the arse.

The point is there is full separation between the OS, the shell and the IE application.

You can unistall it completely, so that add-ins wouldn't work, however you can un-install the rendering engine as that is a core API, and always will be for backwards compatibility.

Uc thats that crunch, the only real reason to un-install it is to remove the possible exploit attack vector, the less is more idea is a very good security design pattern, but if MS are to retain the backwards computability which is quite frankly market leading and an important reason people stick with them.

So it would be pointless.

I think that vista windows update been seperated is again silly, forcing updates down peoples throat is a VERY good idea... just look at recent history for many reasons as to why!

[dangel]

Truth is, most people just don't care. They just want it to work with minimal hassle.

[digit]

The better solution would be to make them optional components (as has been mentioned). So by default you get all the useful applications, but you can decide not to remove them. They have no logical reason to remove them for anti-competition reasons (the EU was retarded enough for complaining about the inclusion of media player), so the only reason I can think of is that they want to push the live suite...which just isn't that good.

Perhaps the way forward to keep everyone happy is to have three installation options:

Base - A very minimal installation to keep people who feel windows is bloated happy. This would be very like the minimal linux distro's.
Standard - An installation that does much the same as Vista does, installing WMP, MSN Messenger etc.
Custom - A linux style option with shed loads of check boxes to select what you want and don't want.

Personally I don't really care that vista may contain applications that I don't use, they are handy for occasional usage. I did actually use Windows Mail for quite a while before Office 2007 Ultimate was offered nice and cheap for students.

[oralpain]

Bah thats annoying, one of the massive advantages of Windows is that you get basic applictions right out of the box.

I'll always find this to be Window's greatest disadvantage, at least as long as I have to resort to 3rd party apps to remove the things I dont want before install.

[TheAnimus]

why thou oralpain?

whats wrong with these applications? Is it a possible vector for security attacks? When they're not running their not taking up RAM. Can you really not afford 100mb of HDD space?

I've stripped XP MCE right down to run on CF in my media PC, it wasn't that hard, but many apps i left as they only take up little space (wordpad for instance) you never know when they might come in handy

[cordas]

Perhaps the way forward to keep everyone happy is to have three installation options:

Base - A very minimal installation to keep people who feel windows is bloated happy. This would be very like the minimal linux distro's.
Standard - An installation that does much the same as Vista does, installing WMP, MSN Messenger etc.
Custom - A linux style option with shed loads of check boxes to select what you want and don't want.

Personally I don't really care that vista may contain applications that I don't use, they are handy for occasional usage. I did actually use Windows Mail for quite a while before Office 2007 Ultimate was offered nice and cheap for students.

I would suggest something similar,

1. Barebones - nothing but the very basics
2. Basic package - barebones with general functionality, notepad, wordpad, calc e.t.c
3. Full - Pretty much the same as Vista, all the bells and whistles
4. Custom (with the ability to start from either of the 3 defaults and add delete as you wish.

I would also give the option of not installing all the libraries and drivers e.t.c. (Keep them on the DVD or use online access). For the Full install the default should be to install them all, with a tick box clearly labled in simple english to opt out. I would expect any pre-bought PC to come with the full install and all the libraries.

On top of this there should be the option to boot your PC in various different modes, so you could have a full install but run your PC in (custom) barebones if you chose or basic.

The most important thing in my book is get rid of the 20 million SKUs, no one needs them and all they do is cause confusion and agrevation. Have a Home which has everything, a business stripped down and tweaked for work PCs and maybe a server version. Thats it, thats all they need! If they feel the need to release a 32bit (I hope not) or a 128bit (don't think we will be there for a few years at least) then bundle them on the same disk and stop arsing us about!

[Mr Pants]

I think this is getting silly now.

Apps like WordPad for instance where actually examples of how to use the 'RichTextBox' in MFC, rather than an App.

One of the reasons MS is such a widely used OS is because it had fantasticly easy to program with controls that gave out of the box, will work on EVERY win install, no other libs needed functionality.

But the more they erode features, the less they have re-used GUI bits, providing a common interface will actually erode their user base more and more. Web Apps aren't the answer.

I agree, I cant see how a small email client like Outlook Express or Windows Mail bloats the system when all it takes is a few megabytes.

Another thing is they wont adjust the price of Windows one bit to compensate for the loss of programs, it saves them money because their developers can work on other unrelated projects instead.

[kalniel]

Another thing is they wont adjust the price of Windows one bit to compensate for the loss of programs, it saves them money because their developers can work on other unrelated projects instead.

And if you don't think it's value for money then you still don't have to get it.