News - Microsoft says hybrid graphics make for a poor user experience

[HEXUS]

As part of its Windows 7 documentation, Microsoft has advised system manufacturers to steer clear of multi-GPU solutions.

Read more.

[shaithis]

Seems odd although I suspect they have their reasons.

Anyone here running hybrid graphics and having issues?

[colincliff]

i havnt been able to get a 780g hd 3450 hybrid system running well at all with Vista 32. There is hardly any documentation and most help suggestions are "reinstall windows"

[jimbouk]

The hybrid graphics on a laptop is a good idea, 1 for games, 1 for 2d/battery life. But as Hexus say - just doing the scaling right with one graphics card is a much better solution.

It's a bit worrying Microsoft bringing back the 'Please reboot your computer' though...

[pow1983]

Microsoft says hybrid graphics make for a poor user experience

And users say Windows makes for a head smashing experience.

Id like to hear nVidia's and AMD's response to this, considering its the path they chose to make them some money.

[lodore]

seems a bit of a strange move since around 2 weeks ago apple released macbook's with hybrid graphics from Nvidia.
if you need a reboot to switch between the GPU's its eiether poorly written drivers or the way the operating system works. im sure microsoft could sort it out so you dont need a reboot to switch between modes. then again if all graphics cards used less power when they werent needed that would be a much better solution.

[alsenior]

seems a bit of a strange move since around 2 weeks ago apple released macbook's with hybrid graphics from Nvidia.
if you need a reboot to switch between the GPU's its eiether poorly written drivers or the way the operating system works. im sure microsoft could sort it out so you dont need a reboot to switch between modes. then again if all graphics cards used less power when they werent needed that would be a much better solution.

in osx the video subsystem is provided by an x.org. all this means you have to do is to restart the xservice on the new gpu (requires the user to log in and out) same goes for all unices (sp?) . windows on the other hand has the graphics subsystem built right into the core of the os. this means that you have to restart the os to change gpu.

so in short it's a windows thing. Microsoft could change this in kernel version 7 (not the same as windows 7) but i might be more trouble than is worth

[Bob Crabtree]

Seems odd although I suspect they have their reasons.

Trying to avoid showing up a specific shortcoming of its operating-system technology and doesn't want the bother of having to put it right?

Or am I just being cynical?


Bob

[chis]

Or maybe MS just can't be bothered to code efficiently enough to make hybrid GPU solutions work well on Windows.

I like the sound of an IGP + dedicated GPU. IF it can be made to work well enough, it would be a sensible choice for "TV PCs" that are used for occasional gaming but otherwise should be quiet and low-power video/audio playback devices.

[kalniel]

Trying to avoid showing up a specific shortcoming of its operating-system technology and doesn't want the bother of having to put it right?

Or am I just being cynical?


Bob

Nah, if you were really being cynical you'd say it's because Intel doesn't have a discrete card yet, and when it does it's even less likely to work in hybrid with an integrated product. And if Microsoft want to run well on Atom/Core/GMA, one of which can be found in, oh I don't know, 95% of computers out there, they have to play nice with Intel..

[Bob Crabtree]

Nah, if you were really being cynical you'd say it's because Intel doesn't have a discrete card yet, and when it does it's even less likely to work in hybrid with an integrated product. And if Microsoft want to run well on Atom/Core/GMA, one of which can be found in, oh I don't know, 95% of computers out there, they have to play nice with Intel..

Ah, well, of course, there is THAT!

[directhex]

in osx the video subsystem is provided by an x.org. all this means you have to do is to restart the xservice on the new gpu (requires the user to log in and out) same goes for all unices (sp?) . windows on the other hand has the graphics subsystem built right into the core of the os. this means that you have to restart the os to change gpu.

so in short it's a windows thing. Microsoft could change this in kernel version 7 (not the same as windows 7) but i might be more trouble than is worth

OSX doesn't use X (it can load X optionally on top though). It uses its own windowing system - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartz_(graphics_layer)

[TheAnimus]

so in short it's a windows thing. Microsoft could change this in kernel version 7 (not the same as windows 7) but i might be more trouble than is worth

Errr not in my understanding of the WDF?

http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device...y/default.mspx

Now the problem would be that you would have to re-create a 'new' desktop, and re-open each app, as fundementally the new GPU might not offer the same support as the old one.

As such the way everyone is doing this is by using the CPU and the GPU to pretend to be the same graphics card. I can really see why it makes sense to say do all of it in the GPU, not take any resources from the rest of the PC for emulating the better GPU with the lesser one.

Otherwise each app would have to be restarted when the change happened.

[tighsamhradh]

Microsoft are right. What's the point of paying for a system which as two different GPUs, with the extra weight, expense, cooling and board space needed to accomodate such a system? None. No point at all. The GPU manufacturers have the ability to design a processor that can run on very low power levels when needed. Look at the GTX 260 power requirements for idle and full performance just to prove this point. OK Microsoft don't get everything right but most of us use their OS (despite our moans & grumbles) in preference to any other, because Windows gives us without a shadow of a doubt the greatest hardware and software support of any other OS. All newly designed hardware (and a lot of older products as well) will come with drivers for the latest Windows OS (if needed). You can't say the same for Linux or OSX. Why not? Market share. Microsoft has it sewn up. They've done a damn good job in the home/enthusiast market over the last 15 years. Despite all the extremely widespread piracy of their OS's, they still make a mint. A company like that who ultimately determine how we interact with the beige/black/silver whatever humming box on our desks should be listened to. Their opinion is highly informed and not just puffed up pontification.

And no, I do not work for or have shares in Microsoft. I've tried the others and found them extremely lacking for my needs. Yay Microsoft.

[Bob Crabtree]

I just LOVE the debates on these forums!

Microsoft are right. What's the point of paying for a system which as two different GPUs, with the extra weight, expense, cooling and board space needed to accomodate such a system? None. No point at all. The GPU manufacturers have the ability to design a processor that can run on very low power levels when needed. Look at the GTX 260 power requirements for idle and full performance just to prove this point. OK Microsoft don't get everything right but most of us use their OS (despite our moans & grumbles) in preference to any other, because Windows gives us without a shadow of a doubt the greatest hardware and software support of any other OS. All newly designed hardware (and a lot of older products as well) will come with drivers for the latest Windows OS (if needed). You can't say the same for Linux or OSX. Why not? Market share. Microsoft has it sewn up. They've done a damn good job in the home/enthusiast market over the last 15 years. Despite all the extremely widespread piracy of their OS's, they still make a mint. A company like that who ultimately determine how we interact with the beige/black/silver whatever humming box on our desks should be listened to. Their opinion is highly informed and not just puffed up pontification.

And no, I do not work for or have shares in Microsoft. I've tried the others and found them extremely lacking for my needs. Yay Microsoft.

[jimbouk]

Yay Microsoft.

Surely it's just yay no-one then?