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Thread: News - SCAN launches innovative component installation insurance

  1. #225
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    Re: News - SCAN launches innovative component installation insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris P View Post
    Scan sure charges are shown at the checkout stage because they are calculated against the Retail value of the product(s) the policy covers. The carriage charge, again at the checkout stage and based on the weight and delivery address.

    The basket Net Total, Carriage, VAT, Scansure and Total charge are all shown in the same place. My point being that the price you see (price you can see) is the price you pay. The Scansure charge is not hidden and to say otherwise would also be to say that the Total, Carriage, VAT, Net Total charges are also hidden because they are ALL shown in the same place.
    That's all true, but there are some important differences.

    Re: VAT .... it's a mandatory item and the customer has no choice whether he opts for it or not. Also, as you select individual items to buy or not buy, both inclusive and exclusive prices are shown meaning that the customer sees the overall price at the point of deciding to add that item. But you don't see that with Scansure. You don't see the cost at all until you complete the basket and go to checkout.

    As for delivery, well, for most forum members that'll be zero. But even for non-members who actually pay delivery, it is an intrinsic part of any distance purchase. After all, if you order by a distance method, the goods will need to be delivered unless you make some alternative arrangements. The cost of delivery is therefore a fundamental part of the same contract. That's precisely why the official view of the OFT and BERR isthat delivery is covered by the DSR's and not a separate contract. That is not the case with Scansure, since it's an option.

    I can't see any way in which it can be said the price of Scansure is hidden, though. I mentioned a similar insurance that was added to my car insurance (and to MANY car insurance policies, for that matter), where I wasn't told about it, and didn't know I was getting it until the policy schedule arrived with a covering letter. THAT was hidden. Scansure is not.


    However, the "price you see is not the price you pay" point does have an amount of validity. It all depends on which point in the transaction you're talking about.

    Funkstar is talking about the item by item selection. When you choose to add an item to the basket, the cost will be the cost of that item plus, if applicable, a charge relating to Scansure. It might be calculated on the basket value, but there's a pro-rata element for each item. Therefore, the price you see is not the price you pay.

    If you're looking at the overall order, then the Scansure charge is added so the price you see is the price you pay.

    In other words, you're both right .... it just depends what point in the process you're talking about.

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  3. #226
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    Re: News - SCAN launches innovative component installation insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    Not sure I quite agree with that - the prices are shown exclusive of scansure (as they are shown exclusive of delivery) - like delivery, it is added at the end ofthe transaction, however it is an additional product (rather than a service - like delivery) and one that you have to ask NOT to buyy - which is the point in question.
    I have a free delivery, so the price I see for each item on Scan is the price I pay.

    Taking a really simple example - an Antec 300 case
    http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Antec...r-Case-w-o-PSU - £45.97
    http://www.ebuyer.com/product/143854 - £46.99

    At the product screen, price is £45.97
    In the basket, price is £45.97 ("Scansure available" is shown) - https://secure.scan.co.uk/aspnet/Shop/Basket.aspx
    Clicking the "Confirm your order" button, which would normally confirm it at the price shown (previously on Scan and every other site I deal with), increases the price to £46.91 on the next page.

    The case that was a pound cheaper has magically only become 6p cheaper, unless I do something to sort that.

    With reference to the post by Saracen, yes, it does depend which point you are at so we are both technically right. The problem is that if you aren't careful and check *every single screen* you could end up paying more.

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    Re: News - SCAN launches innovative component installation insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    .....

    As I have said before, this practice is (IMHO) unethical, and I smile now when I see the heading in the commercial section "Where only the most honourable retailers have their official sites" because (again IMHO) I don't think Scan have been particularly honourable over this.

    That said, I have had good service from Scan over the last 9 years (long before the Hexus delivery partnership) but since this debacle, I no longer automatically go to Scan as a preferred supplier, and my recent purchases have been from other etailers who don't force me to opt out of an unwanted service. That doesn't mean I won't use Scan again, but has made me look again at other sources of supply (so I suppose in a perverse way, it has been a good thing for me!)
    And that is the really sad thing about this whole sorry business

    Customers tend to be "loyal" to companies they feel comfortable doing business with, that they feel they can trust. I would always rather deal with a company I feel will be responsive if I have a problem, even if it means paying a premium for the product .... and often, a not inconsiderable premium. For instance, I've been buying car hifi from the same dealer for more than 30 years. These days, I don't even bother getting prices anywhere else. I know I'll get a decent price, and I know I'll get good service, because I've been getting it for decades.

    But ..... the first time I feel I'm getting bad service, it'll severely dent that confidence. At that point, trust starts to disappear, and it wouldn't take much to destroy it all. Then, I'd begin to wonder if my confidence had been misplaced before.

    A good reputation take a lot to build, but can be destroyed quite quickly. And, once destroyed, will be very hard to rebuild, and might well be impossible.

    That's why the opt-out nature of this policy is, IMHO, so corrosive. It smacks of the same mentality as MPs justifying their expenses claims by parroting "it was within the rules". Yeah, it may well have been within the rules, but it's seen by taxpayers (i.e. customers) as being unethical. And, if you see a company you thought you knew doing something which, despite being legal and FSA regulated (i.e. "within the rules") you regard as utterly unethical, it IS going to damage that trust and dent that reputation.

    Sadly, it has. And at least with some of us, quite severely.

    Also, I'm sorry to say, even changing it now would perhaps not make a lot of difference. Just like MPs offering to pay back money once they've been "exposed", paying it back won't affect the fact that they were prepared to claim it in the first place, and paying it back won't make their original claims seem any less unethical.

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    Re: News - SCAN launches innovative component installation insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    I am curious about the process if you buy in the store at Scan. Is Scansure added automatically to the bill, and the customer has to ask the salesman to remove it, or is the customer asked at the time if they want it?
    My original question...

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    <-----snip

    I'm still curious about the point I raised earlier concerning in-shop sales.
    Which I don't think has been answered yet (if it has and I missed it, my apologies)

    It also raises a question about Scan's other selling channel - 'phone sales.

    If I place an order by 'phone, how is Scansure dealt with? Is it automatically added (as for a web sale) in which case how do I opt out, or is it offered as an added product which I have to specifcally accept?
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    Re: News - SCAN launches innovative component installation insurance

    As a further point, what about corporate sales?

    Do corporate account holders have to opt out and confirm as well, even when dealing with their account managers?

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    Re: News - SCAN launches innovative component installation insurance

    Any answers to the above posts?
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    Re: News - SCAN launches innovative component installation insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    Any answers to the above posts?
    I imagine you won't get one, as they can't spin the answers

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    Re: News - SCAN launches innovative component installation insurance

    Guys,

    Its nothing to do with spinning answers.

    All orders over the phone etc are opt-in as the orders are generated by a member of staff and put on the system rather than manually inputted by the end user as is the case with online orders.

    Every member of staff will ask if insurance is required on the order at the point of ordering and point out the benefits to the end user for the insurance to be taken.

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    Re: News - SCAN launches innovative component installation insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Carlh View Post

    All orders over the phone etc are opt-in as the orders are generated by a member of staff and put on the system rather than manually inputted by the end user as is the case with online orders.

    Every member of staff will ask if insurance is required on the order at the point of ordering and point out the benefits to the end user for the insurance to be taken.
    IE the way it should be on the website. Opt In.

    Not a two stage opt out process. It still staggers me that Scan put this in place.

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    Re: News - SCAN launches innovative component installation insurance

    CarlH - Thank you for the reply - and no, I wasn't expecting you to spin the answers. However, as Gordy pointed out, that is a different system from that offered to those offered to web users.

    Why is that the case?
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    Re: News - SCAN launches innovative component installation insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    Why is that the case?
    My guess...

    Because by law, it has to be mentioned and no one will "miss" the blurb over the phone, so they might as well make it opt in.

    Online, it can be easily missed/overlooked....so best make in opt out for some easy cash.
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    Re: News - SCAN launches innovative component installation insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by shaithis View Post
    My guess...

    Because by law, it has to be mentioned and no one will "miss" the blurb over the phone, so they might as well make it opt in.

    Online, it can be easily missed/overlooked....so best make in opt out for some easy cash.
    Well, that's one interpretation - but I'd still like to hear Scan's explanation.
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    Re: News - SCAN launches innovative component installation insurance

    peterb

    I will point out again that the Scansure charge is not easy to miss, I have explained that the Scansure charge is shown in the same place as the Net Total charge, VAT and carriage charges, so if it is believed the Scansure charge can be easily missed then does this also mean the Net Total charge, VAT and carriage charges are also easily missed?

    Carl has confirmed every member of staff will explain the concept of the Scansure Insurance as an option to take but at the moment Scansure cannot be added as an Opt out service to a MANUAL invoice's, due to the fact the Sales person would have to intervene to offer this service.

    The reason being when a customer places an order in Reception / over the Sales line the customer cannot immediately see information Regarding Scansure as there are no steps to follow, so we cannot automatically add Scansure and we have to explain this before adding the service. Online there are clear steps for the customer to review, which clearly explains Scansure and the charges involved.

    Best Regards
    Last edited by Chris P; 20-05-2009 at 11:33 AM.

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    Re: News - SCAN launches innovative component installation insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris P View Post

    Carl has confirmed every member of staff will explain the concept of the Scansure Insurance as an option to take but at the moment Scansure cannot be added as an Opt out service to a MANUAL invoice's, due to the fact the Sales person would have to intervene to offer this service.
    You are saying it is a problem for the sales person to intervene to offer the service.

    Why is it not a problem for the CUSTOMER to have to intervene to REMOVE the service?

    You say it is a problem to communicate the information to the customer so they can decide whether or not to take it on the phone. Yet online you are *forcing* people to read the information about it in order to remove it. Which seems far worse.

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    Re: News - SCAN launches innovative component installation insurance

    I have not said that it is a problem for the Sales person to intervene.

    The Opt out subject has been covered..

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    Re: News - SCAN launches innovative component installation insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris P View Post
    I have not said that it is a problem for the Sales person to intervene.
    You implied it.

    Scansure cannot be added as an Opt out service to a MANUAL invoice's, due to the fact the Sales person would have to intervene to offer this service.
    How else would you describe it then if it's not a "problem"?

    If intervening isn't a problem, surely following that logically would mean you would automatically opt ALL customers into it, and then the sales person could intervene and explain this "added extra" you've so kindly included and added?

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