News - Microsoft gimps Windows 7 for European users to comply with EU law

[HEXUS]

Planning on picking up Windows 7 this October? Prepare to find no built-in browser, and no means of upgrading from Vista.

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[cobhc]

So is this the EU, or Microsoft making this stupid decision? Not that I like Internet Explorer anyway, and would swap it for Google Chrome as I have done on Windows 7 RC, but not having a browser installed from scratch is just really bad. I guess this is one of those times where it's better to buy from abroad, I'll certainly be picking up my version from America if this doesn't change by the release date.

[menthel]

Surprised? Not at all. This is all thanks to the EU!

[Airlemental]

Don't you just love being in the EU

[Arthran]

so to stop Microsoft being evil to us "european's" we are being forced to buy a full version of Win 7 rather than an upgrade. Meaning those of us with Vista now are forced to pay more...

THANKS EU!

[pollaxe]

Erm... so when it arrives does that mean there'll be no browser meaning you can't download another browser, anyway...?

[wesleyaldred]

Yet another good reason to distance ourselves from the EU as much as possible.

[Kato-2]

Whats worse is that the reason for this is a complete joke Mozilla is steam rolling IE in Europe without any assistance whatsoever and Google/Mozilla/Apple/Opera decided to band together whine to the EU and stick the knife into MS, this has nothing to do with benefiting consumers.

Opera wonders why nobody uses their browser because its an awful browser thats why, what will they do now that OEM's get to pick what browser gets installed, what if they too don't like Opera ?

You should see the rant Mozilla Mitchell Baker posted on her blog it basically sums up any choice is fine for consumers as long as they don't choose IE, that's whats driving this.

If that weren't bad enough it affects the EU retail versions as well.

[Saracen]

Personally, I'm quite happy to see things like browser and media player, not to mention AV engine, disk defragger, firewall and so on, not built-in ..... or at least, not installed as standard or at the very least, able to be deselected prior to install. I don't use MS tools for AV or firewall, or for defragging, or for browsing and would very much like the choice, without getting what is often cut-down versions of commercial tools, like Diskeeper. I use Diskeeper, for instance, and would rather have the full capabilities, even though I pay for it, so I don't want a half-baked version installed as well.

But .... I'd bet that the vast majority of non-enthusiast users would opt for the cheaper option and the simpler life of having something usable installed for them rather than having to do it all themselves.

So, my preferred choice would be for all these optional bits to be present, but in an EU version, not installed as default. Then, on installation, you tick the ones you want and Bob's your father's brother. I don't know if that would satisfy the legal posturings of the boneheads in the EU though.

As for not being able to upgrade from previous OS versions, again, I'm of mixed opinion. Personally, I don't do that anyway. If I'm doing a major OS upgrade, I always do a clean install. I know it's pain re-installing everything, and even more, remembering how to configure all the little tweaks you've made (which is why I keep a system log of apps installed, changes made, settings updated and registry tweaks tweaked on all my systems), and I know it takes a lot longer. My experience has been, though, that I get a lot less long-term problems if I do that rather than installing one OS over another. Put simply, I don't trust the process to work cleanly. But I'd bet I'm in the minority, certainly outside of experienced users, doing that.

This whole thing does rather strike me as MS having a bit of a dig at the EU. I'm only saying how it feels, but it feels like MS are going to make EU users jump through hoops, and are dumping the blame right at the EU competition authorities front door. I just don't know if MS are justified in doing that, though I'm far from surprised and the authorities have rather asked for it.

It might suit me quite well personally, but I imagine there's going to be a bit of a furore over this, and the EU will get the blame, rightly or wrongly.

[cobhc]

Personally, I'm quite happy to see things like browser and media player, not to mention AV engine, disk defragger, firewall and so on, not built-in ..... or at least, not installed as standard or at the very least, able to be deselected prior to install. I don't use MS tools for AV or firewall, or for defragging, or for browsing and would very much like the choice, without getting what is often cut-down versions of commercial tools, like Diskeeper. I use Diskeeper, for instance, and would rather have the full capabilities, even though I pay for it, so I don't want a half-baked version installed as well.

But .... I'd bet that the vast majority of non-enthusiast users would opt for the cheaper option and the simpler life of having something usable installed for them rather than having to do it all themselves.

So, my preferred choice would be for all these optional bits to be present, but in an EU version, not installed as default. Then, on installation, you tick the ones you want and Bob's your father's brother. I don't know if that would satisfy the legal posturings of the boneheads in the EU though.

As for not being able to upgrade from previous OS versions, again, I'm of mixed opinion. Personally, I don't do that anyway. If I'm doing a major OS upgrade, I always do a clean install. I know it's pain re-installing everything, and even more, remembering how to configure all the little tweaks you've made (which is why I keep a system log of apps installed, changes made, settings updated and registry tweaks tweaked on all my systems), and I know it takes a lot longer. My experience has been, though, that I get a lot less long-term problems if I do that rather than installing one OS over another. Put simply, I don't trust the process to work cleanly. But I'd bet I'm in the minority, certainly outside of experienced users, doing that.

This whole thing does rather strike me as MS having a bit of a dig at the EU. I'm only saying how it feels, but it feels like MS are going to make EU users jump through hoops, and are dumping the blame right at the EU competition authorities front door. I just don't know if MS are justified in doing that, though I'm far from surprised and the authorities have rather asked for it.

It might suit me quite well personally, but I imagine there's going to be a bit of a furore over this, and the EU will get the blame, rightly or wrongly.

+1 to everything.

[menthel]

Saracen, you miss the point on the upgrade editions. These can be installed as clean install, you just have to enter your vista key. Same thing went for the XP to Vista editions. It was more of a way to reward loyality I guess, but seems to have been halted.

Also, we will see vendors putting their own choice of browser on but what are we supposed to do when we install our new OS? (Ps this is a flippant comment, I do actually know what to do! )

I actually quite like the idea of a completely decluttered install with options on what to install. I guess that is why I found putting ubuntu onto my netbook sucha breath of fresh air!

[CountStex]

A fairly blatent attempt to get people riled up at the EU .. from memory they just have to offer a version without IE or Media player in, I don't think that stops them from also making a version with them in available, so long as the consumer has a choice.

Sadly it looks like it's working judging from other comments.

[menthel]

A fairly blatent attempt to get people riled up at the EU .. from memory they just have to offer a version without IE or Media player in, I don't think that stops them from also making a version with them in available, so long as the consumer has a choice.

Sadly it looks like it's working judging from other comments.

Not read the article then? Only versions without IE and another without WMP will be available in the EU.

[CountStex]

Not read the article then? Only versions without IE and another without WMP will be available in the EU.

Yes, I know that is what they ARE doing, I'm just not conviced thats what they HAVE to do.

[Saracen]

Erm... so when it arrives does that mean there'll be no browser meaning you can't download another browser, anyway...?

Well, lots of us have access to another machine, or could have downloaded it beforehand, or as said, IE will be available in store on CD. Maybe you buy your OS and can as for a free IE CD.

But in any event, there was that comment about making it available via FTP so presumably there'll be some basic FTP capability as default. It could be as simple as a little preconfigured utility that you just run and in D/Ls ready for you to install, in an idiot-proof manner, as I doubt MS will try to teach the average user how to sett up and use an FTP client.

so to stop Microsoft being evil to us "european's" we are being forced to buy a full version of Win 7 rather than an upgrade. Meaning those of us with Vista now are forced to pay more...

THANKS EU!

Erm, no. At least as I read it, that's not what the article said. It said you ill need to carry out a clean install, not that there won't be upgrade licences available.

Furthermore, we understand that Windows 7 E will require a clean install. Unlike standard editions of Windows 7, users won't be able to carry out upgrades from Windows Vista.

For years, you could buy an Upgrade edition of an OS, and then either install it over the top of an existing, valid OS, or install it onto a clean machine, but would have to provide proof of the previous licence to do it. For instance, for years, you could simply run the install from an upgrade disk and, when prompted, put Disk 1 from a previous version in the floppy drive. Ironically, it didn't even have to be an original disk. A copy worked just fine. Obviously, verifying the existence of a legit version of a previous licence is going to be a bit more comprehensive than that these days. Maybe it'd involve checking your old version's serial number is okay with some kind of validation server. Maybe it requires a phone call or internet check of some sort.

But there's two issues, and they're different.

1) Can you physically install over a previously inbstalled version? Inside the EU, it seems not. You will have to do a clean install.

2) Can you buy upgrade licences? I haven't seen anything that days you can't.

[menthel]

Yes, I know that is what they ARE doing, I'm just not conviced thats what they HAVE to do.

I think you will find their multi hundreds of millions of dollars fines tell them otherwise! They could bundle it all together BUT then get the EU fine them again. What would you choose?