News - Microsoft ditches Windows 7 E version

[nightkhaos]

I do think I could do a better job, but I don't think I could write better software (or any software worth selling in fact).

M$ run an effective monopoly, and they do it badly. I think the mistakes are probably made because they don't think things through, the W7-E edition reversal is just the latest in a number of retarded decision regarding the launch of W7. Personally I think that most people with 2 brain cells to rub together could have sat down in an office a couple of months ago and came out with a better launch than M$ has produced...

1) Decide what versions you are going to have, don't artificially limit them. (Such as the netbook application limit)
2) Multi-user licenses are a no brainer in this day and age, I would suggest 3,5 and maybe a 10 license pack.
3) Sort out the Europe mess before you make any announcements. What this article is talking about could have been agreed months ago I am sure.
4) Set realistic price points and sell to them, don't bother with this convoluted pre-order nonsense.
5) Treat Apple and its advertising with the contempt it deserves, but don't sink to their levels of infantile bull droppings.
6) Head off to the beach for a beer and a BBQ.

1) Was done, and the NetBook 3 app limit is perfectly reasonable considering a) the tiny resolution and b) the minisule amount of system reasons aviable. Most people will only run IE, Word and some form of IM client anyway.

2) Hence why they released a 3 license family pack.

3) Impossible consider the EC continued to redefine their specification. Microsoft has only just got a sensiable set of requirements from them.

4) Pre-orders are an effective marking stratagy, any intelligent marketing team will do it as it increases sales.

5) You're just trolling with this one. Apple advertising is effective, just like the "pre-order" nonsense you refer to. Do you have any understanding of advertising at all?

6) When the marketing campagin was first started, it was winter, so this would be impossible.

[Arthran]

Important Add-ins? Or stuck under a rock? Right now anyone who considered themself a geek will ONLY use firefox if they have add-ins that they absolutely need. And no, that does not include Ad-block+.

Oh Master! Please impart your great wisdom to us lesser geeks who still use Firefox!

[nightkhaos]

Oh Master! Please impart your great wisdom to us lesser geeks who still use Firefox!

Sarcasm not withstanding, Firefox is currently a mess in terms of bloatware, does not comply to the Acid3 tests, and is slow compared to it's major competitors, i.e. Google Chrome and Opera. There is hope for them yet, verison 4.0 seems to fix the "performance" issues they have been having in the version 3s.

That asside, sometimes Firebug is very useful, and I don't see that coming out for Chrome or Opera anytime soon, do you?

It is still better than Internet Explorer in general through. I will however, for the near future, be recommending Chrome.

[TheAnimus]

It is still better than Internet Explorer in general through. I will however, for the near future, be recommending Chrome for the moment.

<fast show>this week, i I'ave been mostly recommending Chrome</fash show>

[nightkhaos]

<fast show>this week, i I'ave been mostly recommending Chrome</fash show>

Erm? You lost me. Thanks for helping me notice the redudant posting however.

[[GSV]Trig]

So what if it comes with IE or not, I really dont care, I'll download and install Firefox, its not like people dont know about other browsers, hell if people dont read all the crap that comes with iTunes and just click next next next when installing it they get Safari which is more offensive than IE imho...

[nightkhaos]

So what if it comes with IE or not, I really dont care, I'll download and install Firefox, its not like people dont know about other browsers, hell if people dont read all the crap that comes with iTunes and just click next next next when installing it they get Safari which is more offensive than IE imho...

For Windows I agree, and they have fixed that wee... erm... "Malware" for lack of a better word, bug in the latest iTunes installs.

Safari on Mac is great, however it's just a REALLY bad port when it comes to the Windows version.

[Arthran]

<fast show>this week, i I'ave been mostly recommending Chrome</fast show>

much love for that fast show reference!

[cordas]

1) Was done, and the NetBook 3 app limit is perfectly reasonable considering a) the tiny resolution and b) the minisule amount of system reasons aviable. Most people will only run IE, Word and some form of IM client anyway.

2) Hence why they released a 3 license family pack.

3) Impossible consider the EC continued to redefine their specification. Microsoft has only just got a sensiable set of requirements from them.

4) Pre-orders are an effective marking stratagy, any intelligent marketing team will do it as it increases sales.

5) You're just trolling with this one. Apple advertising is effective, just like the "pre-order" nonsense you refer to. Do you have any understanding of advertising at all?

6) When the marketing campagin was first started, it was winter, so this would be impossible.

1. M$ have done a lot better with W7 than they did with Vista, but the netbook app limit was artificially inserted and has since been removed (from what I have read it was removed because it would have made the machines unusable because of background tasks), as for the current hardware limitations Win7 is likely to be about for years and hardware will carry onto improve as it has so far.

2. Huh? Information about multi-license packs leaked onto the net because of people actually reading the EULA, and a distributor putting it up for sale by accident weeks after M$ released their initial launch information. M$ didn't confirm that they where going to release a ML pack until about a week later, AFTER people had started buying pre-order packs (much to the consternation of some).

3. Sorry but I M$ and the EU have been dancing around this for years (not weeks, months but years), I am sure M$ could have had this all sown up when they released Vista, if not XP.

4. I have no problems with pre-order and pre-order discounts but the way M$ has handled this has been entirely upto them, they have artificially manipulated the market and aggravated a lot of their customer base by limited time and limited numbers at different price points. If I had been in charge I would have done it differently....

5. Apple advertising is effective in making lots of people hesitate before buying Apple, M$ response has actually been very good and I like the fact they have pretty much kept out of the gutter.

6. .... If the weather isn't good for the beach then i have enough common sense to suggest heading to a pub...

My point was that if I had been in charge all of this would have been sorted out BEFORE we went to the market with a strategy that looks half baked at best, as evidenced by the article this thread refers to.... M$ have worked very hard to give W7 a better launch than Vista had, but they seem to me to be throwing away a lot of the good will and tolerance that they have worked so hard to build by looking clueless.

[Singh400]

I find it pretty funny that people still use M$ to refer to Microosft/MS. Yeah, it totally makes you look cool, not like a 4 year at all

[greenalien]

So, if this goes through, doesn't it imply that the 'E' version of W7, which was going to be a 'full' version, will be replaced by what everyone else on the planet is getting, which is an 'upgrade' version requiring an existing Windows installation to install over?

[nightkhaos]

1. M$ have done a lot better with W7 than they did with Vista, but the netbook app limit was artificially inserted and has since been removed (from what I have read it was removed because it would have made the machines unusable because of background tasks), as for the current hardware limitations Win7 is likely to be about for years and hardware will carry onto improve as it has so far.

2. Huh? Information about multi-license packs leaked onto the net because of people actually reading the EULA, and a distributor putting it up for sale by accident weeks after M$ released their initial launch information. M$ didn't confirm that they where going to release a ML pack until about a week later, AFTER people had started buying pre-order packs (much to the consternation of some).

3. Sorry but I M$ and the EU have been dancing around this for years (not weeks, months but years), I am sure M$ could have had this all sown up when they released Vista, if not XP.

4. I have no problems with pre-order and pre-order discounts but the way M$ has handled this has been entirely upto them, they have artificially manipulated the market and aggravated a lot of their customer base by limited time and limited numbers at different price points. If I had been in charge I would have done it differently....

5. Apple advertising is effective in making lots of people hesitate before buying Apple, M$ response has actually been very good and I like the fact they have pretty much kept out of the gutter.

6. .... If the weather isn't good for the beach then i have enough common sense to suggest heading to a pub...

My point was that if I had been in charge all of this would have been sorted out BEFORE we went to the market with a strategy that looks half baked at best, as evidenced by the article this thread refers to.... M$ have worked very hard to give W7 a better launch than Vista had, but they seem to me to be throwing away a lot of the good will and tolerance that they have worked so hard to build by looking clueless.

Okay, first please stop refering to Microsoft as M$. It really doesn't make you seem intelligent, it isn't funny, and worst of all, it makes people less likely to take you seriously.

1) The implementation was bad then, as they made it process limited, not application windows limited, which they could have done if they wanted to, instead they did the logical thing and removed the limits all together, let us all breath a collective sigh of release.

2) See point 4. This is related to marketing... make people spend more money on pre-orders and then "Oh by the way, we have a multi-user pack if ya want it!"

3) I am aware of this, but this is not entirely on Microsofts shoulders. The EU government were completely unreasonable in their inital request, hence the problem existing for such a long time. Microsoft kept trying to say it couldn't be done, and the EU govwould revisit the specification to try and find a compremise. Yes, Microsoft could have suggested this eariler on, but it was no where near the organial specifaction the EU gov required, which was NOT to ship IE in any way shape or form, they they did, they removed all access to it, but it still had the core functionality... the EU gov is as much to blame as Microsoft.

4) And made a lot of money in the process, which was their objective. Corperations will, and do, only care about their customers as much as the law forces them too. Microsoft does not give a about a couple of customers who missed out on the pre-order, and no amount of moaning, hate mail, or media storm will make them. This is actually giving them publicity, which drives up their sales any further. If you want to send a message to them, stop using their products.

5) Actually Apple is in the situation where if it wasn't for their advertising no one would have heard of them. So it makes them CONSIDER getting Apple products. Anyone who has any sense however will take their advertising with a pinch of salt and look at the merits of the product, not what they say it does. Some, like myself, find they suit their needs better than alternatives. Hence, a sale to Apple, which is the point of advertising, and see point 4 for more information.

6) Pub sounds like a great idea!

And if you were in charge you might find things are not as simple as you make them out to be, but you're not, and given your view of the situation I am sure your POV is perfectly justifable.

[Noxvayl]

I've seen how system managers use IE to limit and restrict applications from using the web and getting more advanced network settings to work for businesses. So while right now it's an essential part of most business user requirements, would it not be possible for Microsoft to separate these functions?

Why does IE have to be a network setting manager as well? Its kind of stupid to say you can't remove IE because it does things its not really suppose to do... its a browser not a network manager, create a network manager to perform those functions. You don't use chat clients to set up network settings so why does a browser, just because it uses them doesn't mean it should also manage them.

Don't think I am supporting the EU's ridiculous anti competitive lawsuit against Microsoft though. Its just a load of bollocks from the EU, running low on money so they pick on the big corporations to fund them through lawsuits. Microsoft haven't prevented customers from using other browsers, so how have they been anti-competitive? What is next? Super markets not allowed to have a butchery...

[dandack]

Hey guys just registered to remind everybody the crux of Windows without IE.

MS can only sell full version of their new OS because no IE, aka internet browser, it would be harder for them to do in system upgrades.

I dont know about you all but reading about 7 upgrading, it is a hassle especially on new systems. I rather have to clean install once, every time.

So if they ditch Windows E, MS wins. Who cares about the browser wars?

[nightkhaos]

Hey guys just registered to remind everybody the crux of Windows without IE.

MS can only sell full version of their new OS because no IE, aka internet browser, it would be harder for them to do in system upgrades.

I dont know about you all but reading about 7 upgrading, it is a hassle especially on new systems. I rather have to clean install once, every time.

So if they ditch Windows E, MS wins. Who cares about the browser wars?

Windows update has been independent from Internet Explorer since Vista.

The Windows 7 builds are experimental, Microsoft doesn't need to provide an upgrade path.

This has nothing to do with browser wars. This is Anti-Trust, or at least that is how it appears to the EU government.

[Animus404]

No one is forcing you to use IE. You are welcome to use any browser of your choice.

I'm aware nobody is forcing me to use IE, my objection to IE is that it is pretty much impossible to remove should I choose to use another browser.
Personally I'd be quite happy to have a basic web browser come as standard with windows, to give an example.

Windows comes with Wordpad a pretty basic word processor, when a user decides they need something better they have a look around, choose a better program and install it. The same could be done with a browser, something like IE3 could be installed as standard which will do the absolute minimum(render HTML, Images and run Javascript), a basic browser would also allow a user to search for another product then download and install it.

Microsoft wouldn't have to be put in the stupid position of advertising competitors products with a "choose a browser" screen.