News - NVIDIA's Fermi delayed again

[MadduckUK]

I still have confidence in NVIDIA

oh good, lets keep buying because Rollo has confidence. Lets all ignore recent history and go with what Rollo says, because he has no bias at all.

[nightkhaos]

People like you have never understood me and my motives. Computer gaming is one of my main three hobbies, and I love to talk about and try hardware.

If that is so, why do you have a clear bias towards a particular company (NVIDIA). I am aware that you have posted, in previous times, praise for ATi graphics cards, but you still seem to think that NVIDIA are 'teh shiat'. I have yet to see you say one negative thing about their products.

I've been posting in pretty much the same fashion for years before I became a member of the focus group, and I can guarantee you I'll post in the same fashion as long as this is my hobby.

I hope you rethink that, because if you don't, no one is going to take you seriously anymore. I'm already noticing a trend on HEXUS that everytime you post it is pretty much ignored, or ripped apart, depending on the mood of the following posters.

As a matter of fact, if there was no focus group, I would be pretty much "deregulated". As luck would have it, I have plenty of cash to buy parts to post about, and new ISPs to post from. So, I'd be able to post on any forum on the internet exactly as I have been.

Deregulated? Regulation implies you have controls or motives. Let me take a few moments to guess what those might be. And what does that final bit mean, if you get blocked because you are degarding the community and posted illfounded propaganda, you'll just grab another account and IP and continue to do it, is that what you're saying?

Oh and no one cares that you have more money than time, it's not relevant. Go ahead, waste your money on products like Extreme Edition processors, and ASUS MARS Graphics cards. Money has nothing to do with this, so stop using it as a sheild. There is no "you don't know anything because you can't afford it" with me, because buddy, I can afford it. I just know better.

Not to mention NVIDA covered up nothing- they set aside hundreds of millions to pay for repairs.

Yes, they set aside the money, but then it never went anyway. They used the warrenty sheild as a method to prevent themselves having to pay. Now Apple and other OEMs have to fit the bill for their blunder.

I still have confidence in NVIDIA mobile products, spent $1055. on an Asus laptop with a NIDIA GX260M in it tonight. It flies, good enough to be my only pc.

The problem has nothing to do with mobile products, they were just the worst affected because they would go through their thermal cycle fair more often than their desktop counterparts, the problem is with the G82.

[Phage]

I'm a Republican who believes in laissez faire capitalism, so I'm sickened by the current trend of govt bailouts, increased perception there is some "cosmic justice" that should be legislated, govt ownership of business, increased taxation, and redistribution of wealth in general.

And my question ?
What is your view on corporate governance ?

BTW - Your idea that demanding ethical behaviour from corporates will end up in the consumer becoming a stoned hippy is so stupid that I can only assume that you are either trolling, or unable to understand the question. That was the answer I would have expected from an cranky turing test failure.

I did hope that with your close ties to NV you could have shed some light on the market. It appears more and more obvious to me that you either cannot, or will not do anything but read from the script. If you also fail to answer these questions - off to my killfile you go.
Just for fun and giggles I may report your posts as spam. If you will not contribute, that is a realistic definition of your posts.

[Rollo]

And my question ?
What is your view on corporate governance ?

BTW - Your idea that demanding ethical behaviour from corporates will end up in the consumer becoming a stoned hippy is so stupid that I can only assume that you are either trolling, or unable to understand the question. That was the answer I would have expected from an cranky turing test failure.

I did hope that with your close ties to NV you could have shed some light on the market. It appears more and more obvious to me that you either cannot, or will not do anything but read from the script. If you also fail to answer these questions - off to my killfile you go.
Just for fun and giggles I may report your posts as spam. If you will not contribute, that is a realistic definition of your posts.

You totally misunderstand my response and call me stupid?

I gave examples of every major computer CPU and GPU manufacturer engaging in questionable ethics, and said the consumer who only buys from companies they agree with the ethics of is limited to the hippie co-op. It was pretty straight forward, and you twist it into me saying consumers have to become hippies. You basically only understood I mentioned hippies.

My response about govenance is my observation that I'm saddened by the growing trend of govt interference in business (e.g. the FTB rule mentioned in this thread, nationalization of private industry) and the populace's growing thought of the wealthy and corporations as somehow "unethical" because they have more money.

In America anyway, our society works best when wealth is something to be strived for, not stolen and scorned. In the layoff thread on this board I saw a poster state "something is wrong because one guy makes $120K". IMO something is RIGHT because the guy makes $120K and those who don't should try. This is the fuel that drives economies, not "why should I work harder because the govt will just take more to pay for those who don't, and the people will think I'm an evil robber baron".

Ask me anytime about what I think about current economic trends and consumer climate- it's a topic I want to change current opinion on because I see us on a dangerous path. I could extend the whole thing to pc parts in the very bad move on AMD's part to try and redefine what high end parts (cpu and gpu) will cost- it will bankrupt them, and the lower margins will mean less R&D and vendor features for all. No free lunch.

[Rollo]

If that is so, why do you have a clear bias towards a particular company (NVIDIA). I am aware that you have posted, in previous times, praise for ATi graphics cards, but you still seem to think that NVIDIA are 'teh shiat'. I have yet to see you say one negative thing about their products.



I hope you rethink that, because if you don't, no one is going to take you seriously anymore. I'm already noticing a trend on HEXUS that everytime you post it is pretty much ignored, or ripped apart, depending on the mood of the following posters.



Deregulated? Regulation implies you have controls or motives. Let me take a few moments to guess what those might be. And what does that final bit mean, if you get blocked because you are degarding the community and posted illfounded propaganda, you'll just grab another account and IP and continue to do it, is that what you're saying?

Oh and no one cares that you have more money than time, it's not relevant. Go ahead, waste your money on products like Extreme Edition processors, and ASUS MARS Graphics cards. Money has nothing to do with this, so stop using it as a sheild. There is no "you don't know anything because you can't afford it" with me, because buddy, I can afford it. I just know better.



Yes, they set aside the money, but then it never went anyway. They used the warrenty sheild as a method to prevent themselves having to pay. Now Apple and other OEMs have to fit the bill for their blunder.



The problem has nothing to do with mobile products, they were just the worst affected because they would go through their thermal cycle fair more often than their desktop counterparts, the problem is with the G82.

1. I'm allowed to have clear preferences, but I never lie about hardware in my posts.
2. By "deregulated" I mean I won't be constrained by NVIDIA's rules of group membership. I would rejoin AnandTech with a new name, because I like that forum and the people on it. I wouldn't have my affiliation in my sig, and I would be able to respond to people who call me "scum" like I would like to. As a member of focus group, I'm expected to be professional and polite, even in the face of decidedly rude behavior. You read into "deregulated" ideas that don't apply.
3. My point about cash is valid, if the money isn't an issue, a person has no reason not to buy high end parts and good reasons to buy high end parts. If you make a quarter million a year, spending $1000 on a processor or $300 is largely a moot point.

[nightkhaos]

1. I'm allowed to have clear preferences, but I never lie about hardware in my posts.
2. By "deregulated" I mean I won't be constrained by NVIDIA's rules of group membership. I would rejoin AnandTech with a new name, because I like that forum and the people on it. I wouldn't have my affiliation in my sig, and I would be able to respond to people who call me "scum" like I would like to. As a member of focus group, I'm expected to be professional and polite, even in the face of decidedly rude behavior. You read into "deregulated" ideas that don't apply.
3. My point about cash is valid, if the money isn't an issue, a person has no reason not to buy high end parts and good reasons to buy high end parts. If you make a quarter million a year, spending $1000 on a processor or $300 is largely a moot point.

1. No you don't lie, you just conviently leave some facts out. It's deception.
2. So basicly, your life is controlled by NVIDIA. Does that restriction include omiting facts in order to get to NVIDIA's buttom line, or do you just do that anyway?
3. Yes, but there is a difference between "buying high end parts" and "buying good parts". The money you spend on a product does not directly correlate to it's quality. You can't just throw money at a problem and expect it to go away. Likewise, throwing money at your machine won't make it perform better. I'm a strong advocate of noting where you spend your money, not how much. It's as I said, you went for a 965EE. With the money you could have saved by going for a 920, you could have bought another graphics card.

[nightkhaos]

You totally misunderstand my response and call me stupid?

I gave examples of every major computer CPU and GPU manufacturer engaging in questionable ethics, and said the consumer who only buys from companies they agree with the ethics of is limited to the hippie co-op. It was pretty straight forward, and you twist it into me saying consumers have to become hippies. You basically only understood I mentioned hippies.

My response about govenance is my observation that I'm saddened by the growing trend of govt interference in business (e.g. the FTB rule mentioned in this thread, nationalization of private industry) and the populace's growing thought of the wealthy and corporations as somehow "unethical" because they have more money.

In America anyway, our society works best when wealth is something to be strived for, not stolen and scorned. In the layoff thread on this board I saw a poster state "something is wrong because one guy makes $120K". IMO something is RIGHT because the guy makes $120K and those who don't should try. This is the fuel that drives economies, not "why should I work harder because the govt will just take more to pay for those who don't, and the people will think I'm an evil robber baron".

Ask me anytime about what I think about current economic trends and consumer climate- it's a topic I want to change current opinion on because I see us on a dangerous path. I could extend the whole thing to pc parts in the very bad move on AMD's part to try and redefine what high end parts (cpu and gpu) will cost- it will bankrupt them, and the lower margins will mean less R&D and vendor features for all. No free lunch.

*sigh* Political agruements. The one thing I was hoping your comment wouldn't result in this Rollo, because I know that this agruement can't be won by either party. Allow me to throw you a bone:

The issue we are talking about is not captalism, it is not even related to money making. It is moral accountablity. That is, whether actions of a individual, or group, i.e. legal entity, are moral. Weather the ethicis of a particularly company cause undue harm. That said company happens to make million while doing this morally questionable activity is irrelevent in our eyes.

[Phage]

Heh. I'll take that on the chin. I think we may have a cultural translation issue on some of your posts. You come across as far more aggressive than you may think.

My response about govenance is my observation that I'm saddened by the growing trend of govt interference in business (e.g. the FTB rule mentioned in this thread, nationalization of private industry) and the populace's growing thought of the wealthy and corporations as somehow "unethical" because they have more money.

Interesting.
So you agree that there's a greater demand for ethical behaviour from companies, leading to tighter regulation by Govt. Do you think it's only envy that drives the demand ? Or are there other factors ?
I'm thinking of Orange County, Enron, Microsoft, Intel et al, and the influence of media in publicising these events.

In America anyway, our society works best when wealth is something to be strived for, not stolen and scorned. In the layoff thread on this board I saw a poster state "something is wrong because one guy makes $120K". IMO something is RIGHT because the guy makes $120K and those who don't should try. This is the fuel that drives economies, not "why should I work harder because the govt will just take more to pay for those who don't, and the people will think I'm an evil robber baron".

No argument from me on most of that. Although I still believe that there should be a social contract between companies and the society they operate in. It may maximise wealth to dump toxic waste in the suburbs, but it is not to be encouraged simply because it increases dividends. But of course YMMV

Ask me anytime about what I think about current economic trends and consumer climate- it's a topic I want to change current opinion on because I see us on a dangerous path. I could extend the whole thing to pc parts in the very bad move on AMD's part to try and redefine what high end parts (cpu and gpu) will cost- it will bankrupt them, and the lower margins will mean less R&D and vendor features for all. No free lunch.

May we keep away from the AMD/NV/Intel issues for a moment ? It raises people's blood pressure..
Agreed on TANSTAAFL in general. But I'd be interested in your views, as someone with more 'inside' info, on consumer climate. If you want to take it offline to email, I'm OK with that too, depends on your 'rules of engagement'

[Rollo]

oh good, lets keep buying because Rollo has confidence. Lets all ignore recent history and go with what Rollo says, because he has no bias at all.

If you think my bias would lead me risk $1000+ of money I had to earn, you're mistaken.

There was an acknowledged problem with some laptops, NVIDIA addressed the problem in design, and made allowances for the people who had the chips more prone to fail to get extended warranties and replacements.

I know of know issues for the G92b based GTX260m so why wouldn't I be confident?

If you don't think ATi has ever made a mistake, let me tell you about my MAXX that wouldn't render textures and that they refused to make Win2K drivers for. Or my rev 1 9700Pro that on 4 of the 5 monitors I owned would display rolling gray bars on the desktop unless I used the dvi to analog adaptor. (a trick I learned from the many others who had the problem) Or how about my rev 1 8500 that wouldn't run at stock speeds so I had to downclock the core 25MHz (yes 25 MHz) to get it stable in my full tower case with 7 fans?

No matter whose hardware you're a fan of, odds aren't bad I had an early revision of it that had some sort of problem. Or driver issues. Yes, including NVIDIA.

[Agent]

This is a thread about Fermi. Lets keep it on topic please

Some posts are getting a bit too personal. Debate NV / ATI and peoples support by all means, but keep it professional please gents

[Phage]

*sigh* Political agruements. The one thing I was hoping your comment wouldn't result in this Rollo, because I know that this agruement can't be won by either party. Allow me to throw you a bone:

The issue we are talking about is not captalism, it is not even related to money making. It is moral accountablity. That is, whether actions of a individual, or group, i.e. legal entity, are moral. Weather the ethicis of a particularly company cause undue harm. That said company happens to make million while doing this morally questionable activity is irrelevent in our eyes.

Good call.
We really should try and get together for a beer before you depart for sunnier climes. Sadly - Glasgow isn't exactly next door.
BTW For Aus tech stuff, they have their own OC and I can recommend www.dansdata.com and his blog. A passing aquaintantce of mine and a good writer based in Katoomba.

[Rollo]

1. No you don't lie, you just conviently leave some facts out. It's deception.
2. So basicly, your life is controlled by NVIDIA. Does that restriction include omiting facts in order to get to NVIDIA's buttom line, or do you just do that anyway?
3. Yes, but there is a difference between "buying high end parts" and "buying good parts". The money you spend on a product does not directly correlate to it's quality. You can't just throw money at a problem and expect it to go away. Likewise, throwing money at your machine won't make it perform better. I'm a strong advocate of noting where you spend your money, not how much. It's as I said, you went for a 965EE. With the money you could have saved by going for a 920, you could have bought another graphics card.

1. If when I'm reporting "I've been playing RE5 with 3d Vision and the out of screen effects they added are pretty cool!" you expect me to also say "But remember, ATi can use Zalman monitors for 3d effects as well!" you will wait a long time. There's no deception, I have no responsibility to buy and try all hardware. I talk about what I have experience with, or knowledge of.

2. No my life is not controlled by NVIDIA. My point was there are guidelines for group members. They require us to put membership in our sig. They ask that we represent their firm in a polite and professional manner. Believe it or not, they ask us specifically not to market, only to report issues we see people have concern with, post the truth about their hardware if we see something posted in error (e.g. FarCry 2 won't run on driver revision X), and help people if we can. They don't mind if we post benchmarks, but don't demand it, and some of us help moderate on forums.

3. Yes you usually can solve problems by throwing money at them. When I buy a 3.2GHz i7, it's warranted to operate flawlessly at 3.2GHz for 3 years I believe. If I OC a 2.66GHz i7 and it fails in a year from thermal migration, I'm screwed unless I'm willing to lie to Intel. (which I'm not)
If I want more performance than a HD5870 offers, I can OC it and perhaps destroy it. (if I had a dime for ever post "My GPU/CPU is dead after OCing....) Or I can throw money at it, buy 2, and get the performance, warranted.
If I want a fast car, I can put a nitrous bottle on my Ford Mustang and have a cheap fast car that I'm wrecking the engine of. Or I can spend $100K on the top end Corvette and get a car that was made to go that fast.

In almost every situation in life, spending more money is always better. If it wasn't, no one would do it. Not like rich people got rich because they're stupid.

[MadduckUK]

Not like rich people got rich because they're stupid.

you never heard of jade goody tbh

and yes, your life is controlled by nvidia, you could be out playing baseball or shooting things or eating or anything but no you are devoting your time to come all the way over to a UK based forum to preach the word of nvidia

[nightkhaos]

This is a thread about Fermi. Lets keep it on topic please

Some posts are getting a bit too personal. Debate NV / ATI and peoples support by all means, but keep it professional please gents

I apologise. I will refrain from comment on these off topic issues from this moment onwards. I see no point continuing the argument Rollo, as we are clearly not getting anywhere, nor do we have a clear understanding of the other one's objectives and intentions. Let me however point the following out to you:

All your posts have been meet with scepticism recently. Can you think of any reason as to why such a bias will amount against you? I'll admit, I am human, and I have been a little biased, but as Phage and MadduckUK demonstrate above, I am not the only one. I am not sure how to take you, so I attempt to force more information out of you, Phage seems annoyed with you, and Madduck, well he's just trying to tell you to lighten up.

So I ask you Rollo, can you think of any action or inaction you have done recently that would cause you to be discredited by the members of this forum, and anything you can say or do to redeem this?

With that aside, back to the topic.

I personally think that it's a shame that NVIDIA have been placed in such bad press recently, with the AMD/NVIDIA row on HEXUS, and now this. I only hope that whatever improvements the make to Fermi are worth all this. Althrough from what I've read, it seems otherwise.

But what get's me the most is that the average consumer won't have the slightest idea what has happened here, because it doesn't affect their bottom line at all. I almost wish there was more technically knowledge and that the public got wind of these issues.

Bring on the Fermi NVIDIA, at most to show that you can provide excellent products, at least to keep pushing ATi to innovate.

[Phage]

Annoyed - moi ?
Maybe a little. I'm frustrated that there was someone who is clearly capable of a well argued post but won't. I really think that he/she could really add some insight if they depart from the script.
I see no signs that this will happen.

[MadduckUK]

likewise, im not trying to get him to lighten up. i see Rollo as the new improved Cinrellik, of bigfoot networks fame. appears on forums that may be expressing a negative attitude towards a company/product and astroturfs the place while "representing their firm in a polite and professional manner", "post the truth about their hardware if we see something posted in error". we are here to help you choose nvidia

slimy as hell and becoming more and more common