News - Microsoft drops support for Windows XP SP2

[Pob255]

I'm actual in partial agreement with cordas here, if you're only running a few very specific bits of software, you don't need a gig of memory or a superfast processor esp when the bit of software is well written and streamlined.
And why would you want to run a simple streamlined bit of software on an OS which is far more demanding?
It's a bit like using a lorry to just pop to the shops because it can carry more.

And if you're buying multiple computers for a company the last thing you want to do is get lots of old 2nd pc's each of which will be different, even if they are faster than your current ones.

The danger thoe of just replacing one when it breaks is that you will often end up in the same mixed bag of pc situation because stuff goes EOL so quickly these days.
speaking from experience here.

[cordas]

The danger thoe of just replacing one when it breaks is that you will often end up in the same mixed bag of pc situation because stuff goes EOL so quickly these days.
speaking from experience here.

I have warned them of the risks of doing this, and done everything I can to help them do this as well as they can.

At the end of the day it all comes down to the bottom line and what are the real priorities of the company... As far as the owner/MD is concerned the IT system is just another tool, like the machines in his workshop. You don't throw away a working machine simply because the manufacturers have come out with a new model with go faster stripes (his words). The PCs he has do the job he bought them for over 10 years ago, a couple of years ago I upgraded them all to 128mb of ram for pennies (seem to remember I bought a job lot of RAM for about £10 per machine) which improved their boot up speed and made their software run a bit smoother. He recently bought a couple of Core2 machines with 1GB ram, and they don't run the software any faster so I talked him into giving them to the secretaries who use Open Office which they appreciated for all of minutes until they realised he now wanted them to do more work.

If he subscribed to the obsolete/EOL ideas and kept his PCs he would have replaced the whole lot 2 maybe 3 times at the cost of 10s of thousands and have what to show for it?

[Flibb]

We have some rigs here that are decidedly old, but they are still working, and happilly controlling about £30K worth of kit each. Upgrading wouldnt offer any benefits, they are on 24/7, and upgrading the PC would speed up the task the instruments do. We recently replaced our oldest rig that was running win 3.11, it was used for bulk printing labels. In the end the only reason it was upgraded was that the printer died and couldnt be fixed.

[mrochester]

Good old WinXP SP2. The best service pack Microsoft ever released.

[pipTheGeek]

Good old WinXP SP2. The best service pack Microsoft ever released.

But is also the reason that we haven't rolled out SP3 at work.
When SP2 was rolled out it killed about 100 PCs that had to be bought back in and re-imaged.
Our dept. (mainly management) is now a little concerned about rolling out sp3.

Mind you, I remember installing NT4 SP6a on a few machines and it killed one of them.

[Englander]

How many people use XP SP2 anyway?

I upgraded my relative to the dizzying heights of SP3 only last week!

I imagine there are quite a few less than fully computer literate people who got a PC with XP SP2 and haven't upgraded.

[lodore]

windows xp SP2 did sort out alot of issues. people forget that. windows vista was great after SP1 and windows 7 is great without a service pack so imo microsoft are creating better products than they used to. SP3 shouldnt cause any issues since its basically the fixes after SP2 rolled in to a single file.

[Saracen]

Just shows how some companies attitudes aren't very forward thinking. I used to work for a large supermarket chain beginning with "M", and there IT setup is a good 10 years out of date. Problem is that it does affect productivity because people know the setup is rubbish and have little faith in the companies ability to move forward, or even with the times. Yes it might run their software fine, but even so, when a five year old laptop that can be picked up for £50 is faster, it is bound to have a detrimental effect on workers moral.

Supermarket IT systems are about far more than just upgrading to a faster system, especially if the old system runs the software "just fine". For a start, there will be a maintenance contract, and the engineers have to carry spare parts, and that;s not just for the PC but for scanner/scale, for card readers, printers and so on ... and they have to be trained. Sometimes a unit replacement is necessary, sand sometimes it isn't.

And, where scales are involved, you are then into the whole arena of metrology legislation, because the entire system has to be verified and certified to be traded on. Otherwise, software could be changed so that when the scale reads 500g, the software charges for 550 but prints 500g. Therefore, software is checksummed and that checksum can be printed and checked, and is, when the system is certified as legal for trade. As soon as you start monkeying with that, you get into a whole minefield of whether the changes you make require that he system is reverified. I was involved in one such change, and the decision ultimately ended up going right up the chain to the Secretary of State, and the decision involved the supermarket in an unanticipated cost than ran comfortably into 6 figures .... and part of a project that was in the 8 figures. Oh, and by the way, if it does require reverification, neither the supermarket not any old computer engineer can do it - it is a function of Trading Standards, or of an independent body authorised by them .... including me.

Changing hardware on the sales floor has a FAR greater potential impact that the relatively modest cost of just the hardware, and they don't monkey with these systems lightly. Once you picked, developed for and tested, for a given platform, including OS revision, changing that is a potentially major undertaking, especially where you have custom software written specifically for an embedded version., supporting hardware like touchscreen sales systems and chip and pin.

[badass]

If he subscribed to the obsolete/EOL ideas and kept his PCs he would have replaced the whole lot 2 maybe 3 times at the cost of 10s of thousands and have what to show for it?

That depends on what the company does. If there really is no need to have more than a workgroup and absolutely no need for file sharing, backups etc then maybe that's fine.
However often in these situations the myopic holder of the purse strings doesn't realise just how much more help some modern software can be. It may have cost tens of thousands extra to upgrade the PC's 2 to 3 times but if they had been upgraded, he may well fine he needs one less member of staff, saving tens of thousands per year.

[badass]

Supermarket IT systems are about far more than just upgrading to a faster system,

Supermarket IT systems to all intents and purposes are a completely separate discussion. Due to many of the reasons you have already mentioned, the software and hardware on their EPOS systems is often ancient.
However their offices and servers certainly can be upgraded more often with less hassle. However before doing anything like that there is a lot of due diligence to do. There's no point upgrading if the benefits don't outweigh the costs.

[12GaugeShotty]

How many people use XP SP2 anyway?

Disturbing numbers I am sure.

[bignev]

At work there is a system running Windows 95. Boots/shuts down in seconds, not minutes. IIRC, this machine has 16MB of RAM and a 1GB hard disc. Perfectly ok for what it is used for (running a chip programmer).

[aidanjt]

If you'd any sense you wouldn't base supermarket EPoS infra. on Windows anyway.

[TheAnimus]

If you'd any sense you wouldn't base supermarket EPoS infra. on Windows anyway.

Have you ever used a self service checkout?

I must admit the designers did their level best to hide any sense they may have once had!

[Developer-]

About time.

[badass]

If you'd any sense you wouldn't base supermarket EPoS infra. on Windows anyway.

Tesco EPoS kit all runs XP IIRC. The self Service ones definitely do.