News - Samsung sues Apple back

[Hicks12]

oh ofc if you take it out of context then its completely wrong, im just saying that majority of iphone owners think Apple were the first to make everything, for example the touchscreen which is completely untrue yet theres no way to convince them that Apple didnt (atleast in my experience, of all the people i know who own an iphone/apple product)

But you must admit it is silly sueing Samsung which is huge and like the saying goes, dont bite the hand that feeds you as samsung provide a huge chunk of components for Apple so if they said FU we wont sell to you now then Apple would be screwed for sometime. Forgive me if im wrong as this is an iirc moment, Apple are sueing Samsung which havent broken an Apple patent? And Samsung are countersueing with about 10 patents being broken so its clear Apple would lose... Its also quite harsh basically saying Samsung cant come up with its own design and is copying

in short from what ive looked at in regards to the galaxy this is what it "copies":
1. Rounded edges
2. Middle hardware button
3. Silver/chrome trim
4. earspeaker looks similar

But...
1. rounded edges is an old design, nothing new and apple were probably the LAST company to use rounded edges.
2. one solid hardware button, but Samsung has 1 hardware and 2 touch buttons so 3 buttons at the bottom and its not even circular its square.
3.silver/chrome trim, again nothing apple specific and they werent the first to use it so its not THEIR design
4. well this is obvious, earspeaker has to be there to actually listen to your convo.
5. Texture of the phone totally different, backside layout and design is totally different from iphone.
6. Side buttons are way different to the iphone, again.
7. Screen is much larger than the iphone
8. Its not called an igalaxy

So im confused, how is it copying when they used their own design?

[mrochester]

Don't forget the TouchWhizz skin too with it's horizontal scrolling icons, 4 icon dock etc.

If you're suggesting Apple shouldn't sue Samsung because they shouldn't 'bite the hand that feeds them' then you're suggesting that it's ok for Samsung to abuse their dominant position to strong arm Apple into allowing them to copy their design and style. For someone taking the moral hard line, how does that even register as a viable (or suitable) solution?

The judge will decide who has or hasn't violated whose patents, so any attempt right now to call that is disingenuous at best.

[Hicks12]

not sure with the skin thing so cant comment that part, i was looking more at the physical side to it.
No not at all, i dont think its ok for Samsung to abuse their position.... but from what im seeing they arent really, their products to me look genuinely different to Apples phones. So personally from what i see its Apple trying to use their dominant position in the smartphone market to sue anyone they think could potentially be copying them, but you just dont sue your SUPPLIER when you feel like it, i think there is something else missing/not being reported as even i dont think Apple would be so naive to do it unless its more than just speculation of copying.

I was using the phrase lightly not to be taken really seriously though.(hard to portray the correct affect over the internet!)

[cameronlite]

Apple can attempt to sue Samsung as much as they like, Hicks12 is just saying that it's a very risky game they are playing. It doesn't make it ok for Samsung to abuse their position, but it does mean that Apple would need a very strong offensive, otherwise Apple risk upsetting Samsung for no gain.

[mrochester]

not sure with the skin thing so cant comment that part, i was looking more at the physical side to it.
No not at all, i dont think its ok for Samsung to abuse their position.... but from what im seeing they arent really, their products to me look genuinely different to Apples phones. So personally from what i see its Apple trying to use their dominant position in the smartphone market to sue anyone they think could potentially be copying them, but you just dont sue your SUPPLIER when you feel like it, i think there is something else missing/not being reported as even i dont think Apple would be so naive to do it unless its more than just speculation of copying.

I was using the phrase lightly not to be taken really seriously though.(hard to portray the correct affect over the internet!)

Well if you're missing a good chunk of what the complaint is about, it's not really prudent to pass judgement on it I would have thought.

Absolutely, you don't just sue your supplier for the fun of it, which I suppose leads us to believe that Apple think they have a pretty strong case against Samsung. It'll be for a judge to decide whether Samsung have violated Apple's IP or not, and if they have, supplier or not, they will need to pay for it.

[TooNice]

I've never been I sheep - I do things my way and unlike most people I'm perfectly happy to say I can't stand football for example.

I take it you won't be overjoyed if people called you a sheep then. A lot of people wouldn't be. Most people have things they like, and things they don't like. And the level of outside influence on their like and dislike may vary for every like and dislikes.. You are hardly the only person in this country, let alone the world, who couldn't careless about football. I doubt we are even a tiny minority. Most people in Western society would say "I've never been a sheep - I do things my way and unlike most people <...>".

The sheep argument is cheap because it ignores the real decision process / level of influence of each individual and treat it as all the same. It's arrogant because those who make the accusation will deny that it applies to them.

Again you seem to be assuming I'm saying 'everyone who buys Apple is an idiot', I don't know how much plainer I can make myself really.
[...]
I can't see any sweeping remarks I've made? Maybe if you rearrange the words, add a few here and there and interpret it completely differently than I intended and/or assume the worst possible meaning.

I am not. In fact, you may have noticed that I didn't quote your posts in my first post in this thread. I noted that were you were being quite cautious with the way you posted. I noted the "IMO", "some people" and your concern about "Apple fanboy raged" and decided to give you the benefit of doubt.

Yet Percy did make a sweeping remark without proper justification. It may well be that you've come to the same conclusion as he did while putting some thought into it (though it still doesn't make it a "fact" and your claims that "he is right" make it sound like you think it is), it doesn't mean that he has. If someone was to make the sweeping statement "Android is for poor people", and I was to say that they are right, without providing a serious about data/analysis/explanation I would instantly be discredited as an idiot fanboy.. and rightfully so. Goes both ways.

Not really deniable based on what I've observed over the years.

It may be the conclusion you've come up with based on a very limited sample, but you can't extrapolate it as fact (so it is therefore possibly deniable).

Not only that, but working bottom up to reach *one* possible starting point, and assume that to be the correct starting point is pretty broken as a methodology.

The fact you have a problem with most of what I've said and the length of the response speaks volumes to me really, and I get the feeling it's a little higher than one. And I'm replying as fully as I can so I don't end up being accused of being ignorant and opening myself up to an ambush of abuse claiming my input is meaningless.

Merely disagreeing with someone doesn't necessarily increase my frustration level. I post at length for the same reason that you do, not because I am about to explode. I don't think that I've even used any tools for emphasis (bold, italic, underline) once in this thread.. apart from the one "IF" in cap.

------------------------------------

By and large, I don't care if Apple lose their lawsuit. Yet I do not see the need to exaggerate the fault of their products (e.g. "5 years old in shiny box"). And more importantly, I won't make sweeping comments on the customers (any more than people who buy Creative, for instance, even though I despise them more than most companies).

[johnlal]

now a days combat has broken out in all the big manufactures owing to flourishing business of mobile phone. I too cant live with out my phone.

[crossy]

But you must admit it is silly sueing Samsung which is huge and like the saying goes, dont bite the hand that feeds you as samsung provide a huge chunk of components for Apple so if they said FU we wont sell to you now then Apple would be screwed for sometime. Forgive me if im wrong as this is an iirc moment, Apple are sueing Samsung which havent broken an Apple patent? And Samsung are countersueing with about 10 patents being broken so its clear Apple would lose

Problem with those theories is that most procurements are pretty cut-throat, so if you hack off supplier #1 then you just go to supplier #2 on the list. Unless #1 have some unique piece of tech.
As to saying that Samsung are bound to win, I'll express some doubts. I've no doubt that Apple will do their usual and make sure that they lodge the papers in a friendly region/state, and I'm sure that Samsung won't miss out on this trick either - it's just my perception that whilst EU courts are more likely to be swayed by evidence, certain US courts are more than ready to play the "patriotism" card, to the detriment of the defendant.

Which is just as silly a statement as me saying that a lot of Android sales are accounted for by people who can't afford better.

Funnily enough I'm seeing plenty of comments from the Apple-arati who are saying EXACTLY that. Personally any of this kind of extreme fan boyness just sickens me - whether it be "Buy Apple or be burnt as a heretic" or "Apple owners are all sheep botherers". I bought a 'droid phone, but can see the advantages in some areas to an iPhone3GS. I chose the 'droid because it suits me and my way of working better - for others the judgement is different, and I have no problem with that.

What gets my hackles up is the "buying Apple is like breathing" mentality being encouraged (certainly by my local Apple Store).

So, I hope Samsung win.

[Mattus]

Well, Intel are incredibly successful, they make highly desirable products and there are sure as hell, far few Intel haters than Apple ones.

Desirable products? No they don't. For almost everybody, a CPU has no emotive appeal whatsoever. The small proportion of the population which actually purchases a boxed CPU chooses it on entirely rational, objective grounds. A CPU isn't a 'desirable product'.

This is why the Apple haters keep coming up with their tired 'sheeple' comments. They can't accept that most people don't buy a phone on specifications, and that most people aren't ideologues who care about concepts like openness. That somebody could buy a phone based on an irrational concept like 'desire' doesn't make sense to them.

[crossy]

Desirable products? No they don't. For almost everybody, a CPU has no emotive appeal whatsoever. The small proportion of the population which actually purchases a boxed CPU chooses it on entirely rational, objective grounds. A CPU isn't a 'desirable product'.

I'm sorry to say that I'm going to disagree - an inspection of some of the more commented on cpu reviews in Hexus will show this not necessarily to be the case. There are folks out there who say that they'll either "always buy Intel" or "always buy AMD". Given that the specs are (broadly) comparable then why should this be the case? Then there's the lively debates of i7 v's Phenom - some of which resemble the iPhone v's everyone-else at points. And a cpu is (to a limited extent) a desirable product - else why would all but a tiny handful of people buy the highly clocked quad cores, or even the hexacore parts? Few "need" that computational power, so it must be a "want" aspect instead.
When I upgraded my rig last year I decided I wanted quad or better, but a PhenomII hexacore was chosen because of price/performance. And if that's not enough - look at cpu heatsink reviews, invariably comments will be made about the good looking designs even though they may only be as good thermally as a "plainer" one.

This is why the Apple haters keep coming up with their tired 'sheeple' comments. They can't accept that most people don't buy a phone on specifications, and that most people aren't ideologues who care about concepts like openness. That somebody could buy a phone based on an irrational concept like 'desire' doesn't make sense to them.

The "sheeple" tag is tired, but then again so is the "iPhone4 is the best phone evah!" claim - neither is justifiable. And it's true that "openness" is no great sales point - but just as there are folks who choose their cpu based on prejudices, there are also people out there who choose their phone OS based on cold, hard logic (to an extent). They then refine their choices based on the non-logic based aspects, so a person may choose Android because of it's compatibility (i.e. no need for support apps to interface to PC/Mac/Linux) and then choose a Galaxy S because they like the looks.
Certainly this is what lead me to my current choice (SE X10), and my (non-technically minded) brother did the same - but we came to different conclusions, he chose an iPhone3GS (needed a good music playing smartphone, but preferred the looks of the 3GS to those of the 4).