Features - QOTW: Where do you buy your games?

[aidanjt]

Sorry, imho that's a crock - the standard argument is that by pirating you're depriving them (EA, Activision, etc) of a potential sale. Sure, it's the folks that are doing the pirating/torrenting that are cutting out that sale, but still, to say "nothing is being deprived" if you're receiving these "stolen goods" is an untruth.

And I have a potential bridge to sell you with potentially a pot of gold at the other end. Potentials don't always pan out. Every human being on Earth is a potential purchaser of a game, that doesn't entitle publishers access to their wallets to help themselves to its contents (that would be actual theft, where there is an actual deprivation of tangible, scarce property).

And again, making a copy isn't stealing, its making a copy. If I make a copy of your car, I'm not stealing it, I'm just making a copy of it.

That's why it's called copyright infringement, not theft.

[Noxvayl]

You might want to have a read of the report the Swiss government produced on piracy that I linked to earlier, it's the first study done on the subject that I know of from a source without a vested interest in the results(well not nearly the same bias as publishers/developers and pirates).

So far it's the least biased information on the subject I have found.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2397173,00.asp
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/n...g-still-ok.ars
http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/6182/125/
http://boingboing.net/2011/12/03/swi...ownloadin.html
http://www.techweekeurope.co.uk/news...in-legal-48351

Before reading this the only information I had regarding piracy came from pirates themselves and content owners, both biased and highly likely to be exaggerating. It's worth remembering that the information being used to debate piracy is inherently biased; we are in need of more studies done on the real effects of piracy to enable us to sort through the fiction being flung about.

[aidanjt]

You might want to have a read of the report the Swiss government produced on piracy that I linked to earlier, it's the first study done on the subject that I know of from a source without a vested interest in the results(well not nearly the same bias as publishers/developers and pirates).

So far it's the least biased information on the subject I have found.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2397173,00.asp
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/n...g-still-ok.ars
http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/6182/125/
http://boingboing.net/2011/12/03/swi...ownloadin.html
http://www.techweekeurope.co.uk/news...in-legal-48351

Before reading this the only information I had regarding piracy came from pirates themselves and content owners, both biased and highly likely to be exaggerating. It's worth remembering that the information being used to debate piracy is inherently biased; we are in need of more studies done on the real effects of piracy to enable us to sort through the fiction being flung about.

Yup, pretty much mirrors my own experiences. Downloading allows consumers to mitigate the risk of buying a rotten egg, so they can better make value judgements and direct their entertainment spending on titles which are worthy of their money.

So, again, it comes down to piracy being a problem of developers and publishers failing to improve and adapt to the market (i.e. a service problem).

[davesom555]

Steam/Amazon, or wherever is the best deal! Did use impulse before it was Gamestationized.

[crossy]

And I have a potential bridge to sell you with potentially a pot of gold at the other end. Potentials don't always pan out.

For some reason that first sentence made me
In my defence I did say that it was their standard line of reasoning - like your inestimable self I think there's a lot more to it than the politician-friendly simplifications that get trotted out every time that EA, Activision et al want the right to send their storm troopers breaking down doors.

I'd quietly suggest that if you download that game for free then the publishers would have a devils own job proving they'd lost a sale. On the other hand if you buy that pirated copy "dahn the local market" then it's much easier.

And again, making a copy isn't stealing, its making a copy. If I make a copy of your car, I'm not stealing it, I'm just making a copy of it. That's why it's called copyright infringement, not theft.

Although if you made a copy including the number plate and/or tax disc then there's another offence to be considered.

I was victim (I read it and it gave me a headache) of a discussion elsewhere that concerned the EULA violation in getting a copied game. The point I agreed with was that it's the "pirate" that gets prosecuted for that, since there can't be any assumption that the EULA transfers to an (illegally!) produced copy. So if I buy/download that game then effectively I get one that's EULA free and it'd be difficult to prosecute.

Copyright theft or merely common theft, your pirated game is still "stolen" in my book - and I'll leave the jail or fine to the prosecution lawyers.

[Djini]

Pretty much just Steam now. Amazon or similar if I can't get it via steam but the preference is always to get non-boxed versions and just emailed Keys & download.

[NitrousX]

I buy most of the time from amazon, steam, shopto and gamegears but i do a fair share of price matching to get the best prices though

[ET3D]

For similar reason, I have decided to pirate NFS. Bought NFSMW ( first non-demo NFS game I played ) , bought NFS:Undercover... way too much bugs and badly made game.. must have spent all the money paying MaggieQ , then bought NFSHP2010 and was once again disappointed. Now, even if EA make a superb NFS game, I can't see myself buying it.

If by pirating FIFA or NFS you guy means you'll check how it is for a couple hours at most, then either delete or buy it, then that's okay. But my guess is you play to pirate it and play it for tens of hours or more, and if that's the case then you're hypocrites.

[dozenkai]

steam and shop(best bargains)

[Roobubba]

All well and good....but how do you stop games developers/studios from stealing from us?

I purchased FIFA 12 on release for PC. It became clear within minutes that there was no surround sound on the PC version (in this day and age!!! this is the first PC game I can ever remember without it.....console version have it.....so it's a bug!)...

I report it. I report it 5 other times. I have reported it via phone, email and forums.

Then a month later I finish my first player/manager season.......but when I start the second season there is no option to be player/manager anymore....only manager.
A quick search shows this to be another bug which has been fixed on PS3/XBox.

5 months later and I am still waiting for these game breakers to be fixed.....lets face it, they are NEVER going to be fixed.

"Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me"

FIFA 13 I will be pirating. Sorry BUT THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR THAT KIND OF BEHAVIOUR. Bugs should be fixed.

(When I say 'you' in this post, I'm not referring to you personally, shaithis - I'm referring collectively to people who use pirated copies of games)

Let's be absolutely clear about one thing here: I'm not defending the publishers for releasing shoddy games, and failing to patch them - that is indeed inexcusable. But you are not the judge, jury and executioner here. Think less: "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me," and more caveat emptor. That's 'buyer beware,' and it outdates most other sayings in the human language for one reason: as a purchaser, you need to be careful when you spend your money. There are ruthless, nasty, evil people out there who will take anything they can from you: but your place is not to become one of them, or to practice vigilanteism, it's to alert other, law-abiding people to the problems, and deal with them in a civil manner.

If a games publisher gets a bad reputation for publishing poor quality games and not releasing bug fixes, then they should go out of business. The best way to reach that end point is for no-one to buy their games - and for the demand for their games not to be there. By pirating games you are doing three main things wrong:
1) You are adding to the market demand for the game - increased hype, telling your friends that you're playing it, adding your statistic to the servers, any little hint that another person has the game (bought or not) adds to the game creator's credence as a company.
2) You're taking something for nothing. Why are you entitled to something for nothing? Society doesn't like people who jump the queue for the bus, for example. Are you so much more important than everyone else? <- THIS IS WHY MANY OF US HATE PEOPLE WHO PIRATE GAMES!
3) You are giving the game publishers ammunition to make their downright awful arguments about piracy. You'll find most people on these forums agree that game publishers, especially for PC games where re-sale is often impossible, are absolutely taking the Mick. By pirating the game, you're only helping their cause!!!! You weren't going to buy it anyway, but they would never admit that - you've only added to their argument that game piracy kills their profits (an argument to which I don't subscribe, incidentally).

You had a bad experience with a game? Get over it, it happens to all of us. In fact, it's not limited to gaming. Do you think I'm entitled to my money back for sitting through Titanic at the cinema? It was a diabolical film, 4 hours of my life I'll never have again, and not to mention the 6 or 7 quid it cost me in the first place... Or perhaps, by your logic, I should sneak into the cinema for any subsequent films produced by/directed by/distributed by X...?
Just how do you think the paying customers will react if I steal in to watch a film without paying? Or if I tailgate someone through the turnstiles in a train/tube station? Do you, perhaps, think that those people who have paid for something will be annoyed to see someone getting away without paying? Are so SO NAIVE that you think those paying customers haven't shared your previous experiences with a bad game, a terrible film, poor train service (insert almost any other analogy here)???


Forget the developers/publishers, this argument is not about them - we agree that releasing a crappy game that you then can't sell is tantamount to stealing from us. However, it's how you deal with it that is the main topic here.
You're saying "I'll just steal the next game," which implies that you want it, that you'll enjoy it but that you feel that you shouldn't have to pay for it, while everyone else does.
I'm saying instead that you should post reviews about the bad game, persuade as many other people as possible not to buy it if it really is that awful, and exert your power as the customer by complaining to the company who made it, and to the rest of us gamers, that it's awful. And, if needs be, boycotting buying the next game. Just a quick google search gives several gaming websites with articles about games that have flopped. Whether these are financial flops or not, I'm not sure, but I can tell you that I own none of those games. And nor do the 4 friends I just asked. People power, while not especially powerful, is the best thing we have and we should use it to our advantage: to make games publishers cease and desist with the godawful DRM policies, game re-sales, lack of bug fixes/patches, poor console-ports and so on.

@ Roobubba, mate all of us are not rich like you. We can't keep buying £30 games and end up using them as mattress toppers! And, I do none of these :
renting films/going to cinema, hiring a squash/tennis/badminton court, going for a coffee, going to the pub, go-karting, paintball/laser quest/airsoft... etc etc

I'm not rich! I admit that I'm lucky to have a job that I like (I'm a cancer research scientist), but I work hard, I commute between 3 and 5 hours every day (more fool me; this, by the way, is not an internet forum exaggeration), and I save as much as I can. I'm not badly off, that's true, but I could be earning several multiples of my current salary if I wasn't doing a job that I particularly liked.
I tend to spend between £80-100 a year on games, sometimes less, rarely more. I read reviews carefully before buying and try to play demos/free to play where available to get an idea for whether I like the game before splashing out on it. I also don't go out doing any of those things I mentioned above (apart from LoveFilm - £4 a month for 2 films, not too bad...).
But the argument you appear to be making is:
"I can't afford a game, therefore it's okay for me to download it from a pirate site."
I'm sorry, what?
I can't afford to take up golf. So I don't.

[Roobubba]

Yup, pretty much mirrors my own experiences. Downloading allows consumers to mitigate the risk of buying a rotten egg, so they can better make value judgements and direct their entertainment spending on titles which are worthy of their money.

This is absolutely true - in fact our band even seeded our EP (13Gauge - Fatally Punched In The Face, which you can buy for the princely sum of £1.68) on a few pirate sites... It's free advertising, and if a few people find our stuff and like it, maybe they'll buy this EP (for peanuts), or any future releases. Or maybe they'll come along to our gigs.

The main problem here is that the VAST VAST VAST majority of people who download games, music, films, programs, etc from pirate sites DO NOT then go on to buy the products that they keep (and also keep everything... the term leech is really quite appropriate!).

I recently bought a licence for Reaper (music production software). You can download and run Reaper without limitations indefinitely as a free trial (in practice... though this is not allowed as part of the licence agreement). I tried it, I liked it, and the fact that they didn't lock it down (ie you can save, export etc etc) made me very much more positive about the company, and I was happy to spend the $40 on that piece of software. It helps that it works extremely well, and is functionally competitive with much more expensive products from other companies.

Roo

[TastyPC]

You can BUY games ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Honest answer.... The cheapest and most convenient place at the time. Normally Amazon, Play or steam.

[choco]

mostly use amazon and play.com now

[Zhaoman]

"I can't afford a game, therefore it's okay for me to download it from a pirate site."
I'm sorry, what?
I can't afford to take up golf. So I don't.

I get what you're saying and I agree with it, but you're not taking into account the nature of the modern marketplace which is a huge factor.

If your local futuristic golf course was:

a) within a few seconds of your front door;
b) had no walls;
c) had a magic force field that made you invisible when you stepped in it and you can't directly feel the influence of anyone else, nor does anyone know you're there;
d) and not many people really care whether you played golf there and whether you paid or not

... would you be tempted to go for a few rounds under those conditions? Would you be annoyed if paying customers had to wait in a queue and have to use designated (smelly and old) clubs and gear while 'pirates' can wander in anytime and use whatever equipment they brought with them (but you can't see or feel them of course but you are aware this is possible). Would you be tempted to wander in of your own accord because you are sick of this service and how they treat customers or would you do the honourable thing and refuse to go altogether and take up fishing instead?

The state of the marketplace nowdays can no longer be compared to thieving from shops or skipping queues; the golf course manager of the future has to buck up his ideas and give the same freedoms to paying customers because it's more convenient to 'pirate' stuff these days and often you get a better end user experience (no DRM, not having to sign up to stuff etc). I agree morally it is absolutely wrong but the landscape has completely and irreversibly changed now and all the game and music companies need to wake up and realise this or people will keep pirating and I am not one to judge

[Groundbeef]

In answer to the question I myself mainly use online retailers now as well as Steam.

In both cases I only purchase games when they drop in price, the last pre order I made was Skyrim as I knew there would be a large amount of playtime in that title. Most other games dont offer as much playtime and as such I will hold off on purchasing them on release as invariably there will be a reduction within a month.