News - Microsoft to remove free dev tools for Windows 8 desktop

[crossy]

Or to put it another way, if you are working on a desktop pc with a mouse and keyboard, you are an old f##t who should go forth and find another OS because W8 is not for old timers like you.

Really? Try working on 500+ page documents with only a touchpad and you'll reconsider that position rather sharpish. I'd argue the same for web developers/coders/dba/etc. Keyboard & Mouse for home/work use is here to stay, unless the PC has just become a glorified xBox? On another note, you should have the infraction winging its way to you presently. Insulting other members (whether in a failed attempt at humour or not) has never been acceptable.

Hmm, sorry dave87, but to jump to cjs150's defence I think you've missed out on the "humour" angle there. Look at it again in context (i.e. with Cat's image) and I think you'll maybe see that what he (/she?) was getting at was a text-based explanation of Cat's image with tongue very firmly placed in cheek. But then again, I'm one of the "old f**t's" in the quote, so hey, what do I know?

Personally I agree with you both - forcing attention on Metro the way they're doing is going to annoy a lot of the "touch less" folks needlessly. And I agree with you in that - for the majority of SERIOUS use - touch interfaces aren't the best idea - sort of like that trend a while ago of doing everything "oriental style". Chopsticks are fine for the consumption of noodles and stir fry, but for soup? Not so much. Heck, the one tablet I bought was chosen specifically because it had a keyboard and touchpad so I didn't have to rely on sausage fingers doing precision work.

Actually while I'm agreeing with everyone - Cat's point in #13 is right on the button - Microsoft's stuffing Metro on everyone might actually be an unintentional god send for Linux. In particular Unity-free distro's like Mint, etc. Time to dust off the Live CD's ready for Windows 8 launch and convert a few of the "undecided" to the one true way. LOL.

[dave87]

Hmm, sorry dave87, but to jump to cjs150's defence I think you've missed out on the "humour" angle there. Look at it again in context (i.e. with Cat's image) and I think you'll maybe see that what he (/she?) was getting at was a text-based explanation of Cat's image with tongue very firmly placed in cheek. But then again, I'm one of the "old f**t's" in the quote, so hey, what do I know?

Prefaced with an explanation, I'd agree. Read it simply as text on the page, and you get a very different picture.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Prefaced with an explanation, I'd agree. Read it simply as text on the page, and you get a very different picture.

I agree too if that is the case.

[scaryjim]

to be a little fair to MS, I believe Metro isn't *just* for touch (although that's its obvious use) - anything that can take advantage of a full-screen workspace should be implementable in Metro.

From MS's point of view, they want casual developers to target all Windows devices, and pushing people towards Metro means any apps they develop should (if I've understood the model correctly) deploy seamlessly across Win 8 x86, Win 8 Arm *and* Windows Phone. If they can manage that, it gives MS a huge USP, in that you can run the same applications on your phone and on your desktop, with identical appearance/results.

That said, I can't see what they gain by putting developers off using .NET for Win x86 desktop applications, when there are other free development frameworks they can operate in (e.g. Java). I could understand making the base install of VS Express Metro/Web only (which would achieve the aim of channeling casual developers towards Metro), but it would make a lot more sense to make the desktop development components available as a free add-on for those independent developers who wanted to use them...

[Hicks12]

Im glad i get free stuff from MSDNAA then , go uni pass! enjoying visual studio 2010 ultimate right now .

[miniyazz]

*downloads visual studio express 2010 in case it disappears from their website*

[TheAnimus]

That said, I can't see what they gain by putting developers off using .NET for Win x86 desktop applications, when there are other free development frameworks they can operate in (e.g. Java). I could understand making the base install of VS Express Metro/Web only (which would achieve the aim of channeling casual developers towards Metro), but it would make a lot more sense to make the desktop development components available as a free add-on for those independent developers who wanted to use them...

Indeed, what is the point of the divide. I always thought it was stupid that at first you needed the Pro or higher to dev for the phone.

That said, it will be interesting to see the first time I get asked to do a LOB application in Metro.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

The worst thing,is that since many of us are PC gamers,eventually we probably will be getting Windows 8 in some form!!

[Agent]

Will probably end up with a Student Version of the tools, same as the Windows and Office academic versions, full versions at a lower price I expect.

Most students will get almost any MS product, excluding office (which is vastly reduced anyway), from MSDN:AA for free.

Microsoft are *really* good when it comes to getting software in the hands of students. I don't think they'd dare touch what MSDN:AA due to the huge number of people that are forced to buy MS software after graduating / the companies they work for buying it.

[Output]

Perhaps this will mean more recognition for other free ones, such as SharpDevelop.

[Zeven]

I have been following this piece of news in several different places on the world wide web and am no expert whatsoever, but the majority of the people discussing this seem to agree that this isn't good news at all and that Windows 8 in general will follow your typical Good Windows/Bad Windows/Good Windows/Bad Windows pattern. Nevertheless, one person seems to disagree and he is literally the first one I have come across who firmly believes in Windows 8.

[Malphas]

Prefaced with an explanation, I'd agree. Read it simply as text on the page, and you get a very different picture.

If you're an aspie maybe. It's pretty obvious what cjs150 was saying to most normal people.

[Pleiades]

If you're an aspie maybe. It's pretty obvious what cjs150 was saying to most normal people.

Agreed

[peterb]

If you're an aspie maybe. It's pretty obvious what cjs150 was saying to most normal people.

Aspie

A superior being, while deficient in chaotic morasses such as small-talk, inferior double-standard-laden customs and values trumpeted by Neurotypicals, and deciphering Neurotypical body-language, more than makes up for it with a sharp, penetrating mind that is highly adept at developing an intense focus on a subject giving them a near-savant level of proficiency, an inborn sense of principles that allows them to develop practically consistent characteristics and values, and an ability to reason independently, reducing their susceptibility to dogma, acceptance of groundless assertions, and the hazards of groupthink.

Let's cut out the judgementalist attitudes, eh?

[badass]

Or to put it another way, if you are working on a desktop pc with a mouse and keyboard, you are an old f##t who should go forth and find another OS because W8 is not for old timers like you.

I read this post as an attempt at a humerus dig at Microsoft TBH.

That's the problem with text based communication. You can't always read the intent.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

If you're an aspie maybe. It's pretty obvious what cjs150 was saying to most normal people.

Plenty of us don't think of disabled people or those physical or mental disabilities as being a sub-class of humanity,to be only mentioned why trying to hurl immature childish insults at people.

It also indicates what a naive person you are,when you think so little of such people, as you don't see to have much contact with "the real and normal" world where disabled people also have a right to exist in.

I doubt you even have met a person with Aspergers syndrome or one with a physical or mental disability,let alone had to help such people. You are clueless.

Moreover,when there are disabled people such as Stephen Hawking who have done more to forward our understanding of our world than many able bodied people and Harry S. Truman who lead the US through the second world war,and even I have known people in science with physical disabilities,what have you done for the world??

On top of this Hexus has members with disabilities too,so perhaps if you are "normal" you should also realise this too,and how you would make them feel.