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Thread: News - First screenshots featuring the Windows 8.1 Start Button emerge

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    Re: News - First screenshots featuring the Windows 8.1 Start Button emerge

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks12 View Post
    Saracen, my comment really is just to the 70% of Win8 haters, clearly your issues are more substantial and with good reason! I know that Windows 8 is not everyones cup of tea but some people are just jumping on the hate wagon a tad to much.

    I love that some news sites have reported this change as the worst thing ever and that MS are doomed, MS is doomed if they continue their path or listen to customers it seems! I do like the button style though .
    As perhaps a card-carrying member of the "I hate 8" fraternity, I'll say that in my case it's not MUI that's the problem, but the (half-hearted) way it's been implemented currently. As such I'll give a thumbs up to 8.1 (although I'm sticking to 7 at present - unless I can get a good deal on an 8.1+LeapMotion bundle) because it's at least giving some halfway house for folks who can't get MUI to "behave" for them.

    And like you I pity MS - damned if they stick to their guns, and equally criticized if they try to react to customer demands. But in this case I think they got it exactly right - MUI-boot is default but if you don't like that then YOU can change it. Just as long as they don't do a(nother) half-hearted job and bury the option 10 levels down in some completely unrelated system control app.

    Although it's probably at odds with what I said in the first paragraph I'm hoping that Windows9's MUI will remove the desktop altogether and that it's function, (as a way to collect links/files/etc that you need quick access to), be replaced by some folder in MUI - maybe "My Stuff" perhaps. That would - imho of course - be also compatible with phone and tablet uses of the UI and so closer to that Sauronesque "one UI to rule them all" that Redmond seems to be trying to achieve with MUI.

    Really looking forward to the Windows9 Developer/Consumer Previews...
    Last edited by crossy; 30-05-2013 at 10:05 AM.

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    Re: News - First screenshots featuring the Windows 8.1 Start Button emerge

    Looks good, not a Metro fan in W8 but this looks very much how it should have been done.

    Looks like it will be a lot better and not feel so much like you are swapping into another OS.

    I can see myself using Metro in 8.1.
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    Re: News - First screenshots featuring the Windows 8.1 Start Button emerge

    Quote Originally Posted by crossy View Post

    Although it's probably at odds with what I said in the first paragraph I'm hoping that Windows9's MUI will remove the desktop altogether and that it's function, (as a way to collect links/files/etc that you need quick access to), be replaced by some folder in MUI - maybe "My Stuff" perhaps. That would - imho of course - be also compatible with phone and tablet uses of the UI.

    Really looking forward to the Windows9 Developer/Consumer Previews...
    Oh god I hope not, Metro is good as a start menu / interface for tablets but on a Desktop / Laptop I will always want to use Desktop.

    Call me old fashioned but I like the option to have 3+ things visible on screen at once!
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    Re: News - First screenshots featuring the Windows 8.1 Start Button emerge

    I quite like it. Never liked using corners to pop things up. I know other will just tell me to use the keyboard but hey what can I say - I'm more a mouse guy. It'll also make using VMs/Remote desktops a lot easier (you can never find the corner and I can never remember the shortcut for the correct VM/Remote desktop software i'm using)! Still doubt i'll use MUI for anything other than starting regular desktop apps.
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    Re: News - First screenshots featuring the Windows 8.1 Start Button emerge

    Personally I am now used to using metro as my start menu and to be honest I am going to be rather miffed if I can't disable the new/old button.

    My only issue with Metro is that I can't be more flexible with the groups of icons and their layouts.

    But then I like windows phone 8 so maybe I am just the odd ball.

    p.s. - I also was quite happy with Windows ME for those that recall the bastard child :-)

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    Re: News - First screenshots featuring the Windows 8.1 Start Button emerge

    For me like most new things i tend to wait awhile !!
    I did this with Windows 7 so im doing this with Window 8 and wait until i see how the 8.1 pans out

  7. #23
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    Re: News - First screenshots featuring the Windows 8.1 Start Button emerge

    Very ugly Start button!

    Why are things always a step back with Microsoft ?
    They have not surpassed the Windows 7 and Vista orb at all with this. Their UI department needs to be sacked

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    Re: News - First screenshots featuring the Windows 8.1 Start Button emerge

    Quote Originally Posted by Platinum View Post
    Oh god I hope not, Metro is good as a start menu / interface for tablets but on a Desktop / Laptop I will always want to use Desktop.
    I'm not so sure (which is why I said so!), after all what actually IS the "desktop"? In most (/all?) cases it just seems to be a way to quick access those files and app links that you need. Although in some folks it seems that messy desk = messy desktop. Now MUI should handle the "frequently used apps" because those apps will be buttonised and you can move the buttons around so the frequently used are leftmost.

    In which case all that's needed is someway to handle frequently files - and maybe a MUI button to "My Files" is good enough? Apart from anything else the Desktop is merely another directory - albeit one that you get an initial view of, so downgrade it to a MUI button.
    Quote Originally Posted by Platinum View Post
    Call me old fashioned but I like the option to have 3+ things visible on screen at once!
    Not old fashioned. Whomever decided that MUI/W8 would only show one app on the screen at once was a cretin of the first order. Fingers crossed that W9 (or better still 8.1) removes that barrier to productivity - I need to be able to see more than one app or document on the same screen at the same time!

    Oh, and before someone says "but that's to allow the same behaviour on tablets and phones" my Samsung tablet and phone both allow multiple windows.

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    Re: News - First screenshots featuring the Windows 8.1 Start Button emerge

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks12 View Post
    ....

    Saracen, my comment really is just to the 70% of Win8 haters, clearly your issues are more substantial and with good reason! I know that Windows 8 is not everyones cup of tea but some people are just jumping on the hate wagon a tad to much.

    I love that some news sites have reported this change as the worst thing ever and that MS are doomed, MS is doomed if they continue their path or listen to customers it seems! I do like the button style though .

    ....
    Well, that may be true, and it may be that some are just jumping on the bandwagon. But, it's hard to be sure, don't you think, just where people are coming from, especially in a medium like a forum.

    I mean, some people that don't like the changes maybe don't have the time to go into great detail, or don't have the verbal skills to clearly explain, or maybe just don't have the time, or inclination, to go into great long arguments about it.

    It may be the case that some "haters" are irrational about it, but it's certainly also the case that if you say you don't like it, you risk getting jumped on, called "lazy" or all sorts of other things, and expected to justify quite why you don't like it.

    In any event, the quote above is decidedly more nuanced that the original point I reacted to, which was
    Good, now the hates can shut up about missing a start button!
    Not all the haters hate it for the same reason, or reasons, or to the same extent.

    I, for instance, approve of getting my start button back, but if it leads to the same horrible start menu, then aesthetically, I regard it as the equivalent of someone removing a Renoir from my wall, and replacing it with the "art" from a class of 4-year olds, and I'm not happy about it. But then, that's aesthetics, not the end of the world. I also wouldn't be happy if someone removed my Renoir and put a Van Gogh in it's place. I'd rather have the work of those 4-year olds. But that's another thread.

    My real objection is that the imposition of MUI forces me to either change my working habits, or take steps to get round it, and all for the benefit of MS trying to leverage tablet/phone sales off the back of the Windows userbase.

    As I said ages ago, if MS had just included the OPTION to have my start button, more importantly start menu, boot to desktop, and to be able to disable all the MUI drivel IF I don't want it, and I don't, I wouldn't have said a word. But they didn't, of course. They tried to force it on us, and it's only due to loud squawks of protest, and a cottage industry of 3rd party tools, that's forced MS into a partial but wholly inadequate climbdown.

    My bet is that users will fall into several categories :-

    - love the changes, and MUI
    - like the changes, and MUI
    - not really bothered either way
    - dislike the changes, but will adapt, maybe (maybe not) growing to like them
    - dislike the changes and won't / can't adapt
    - detest the changes but, with gritted teeth and a snarl, will put it up with
    - detest the changes and WILL NOT put up with it.

    What we don't know is the numbers, or proportions, of users in each camp.

    But put me in the latter camp, which I'd guess is probably a fairly small proportion. I will either use third party tools to get W8 to work how I want it too, and MS can go bleep themselves, or I'll stick with Win7, or I'll migrate any machine that gets upgraded from Win7 to LINUX. But, until or unless MS tame MUI to the point where I can work how I want to, and how I have been for years, I am not going to accept MUI. Maybe crossy is right, and MUI will evolve into something I can live with. Maybe. But until it does, MS can shove it. If that means leaving the Windows environment entirely, well, I can, and will. In fact, in part, already have.

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    Re: News - First screenshots featuring the Windows 8.1 Start Button emerge

    Quote Originally Posted by crossy View Post
    ....

    Not old fashioned. Whomever decided that MUI/W8 would only show one app on the screen at once was a cretin of the first order. Fingers crossed that W9 (or better still 8.1) removes that barrier to productivity - I need to be able to see more than one app or document on the same screen at the same time!

    Oh, and before someone says "but that's to allow the same behaviour on tablets and phones" my Samsung tablet and phone both allow multiple windows.
    And that is the core of the bit that I really object to.

    The tile design I dislike, but would live with. The UI changes are annoying as hell, but I can get round them. I shouldn't have to use third party tools to do it, but hey. But THAT is unforgivable. I don't expect to have to change working practices I've been using for a couple of decades to put up with some "cretins" idea of a wheeze for a new UI. So no "apps" for me.

    All I want is Win 8 without MUI. What I ended up with was LINUX.

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    Re: News - First screenshots featuring the Windows 8.1 Start Button emerge

    Quote Originally Posted by crossy View Post
    Not old fashioned. Whomever decided that MUI/W8 would only show one app on the screen at once was a cretin of the first order. Fingers crossed that W9 (or better still 8.1) removes that barrier to productivity - I need to be able to see more than one app or document on the same screen at the same time!
    Well in desktop mode you can, just like you always could and unless I'm a freak I still spend 99% of my time there... However as there are a few useful MUI apps creeping in now ModernMix putting MUI apps in a desktop window is also a good idea Microsoft should take up, alongside the start icon (not start menu, just icon).

    In MUI mode the ideal simple options (for tablets etc) would be two options, a 25/75 or 50/50 split (kinda like snapping on the desktop) but the issue with it is that will reduce the resolution for an app below the minimum on a lot of screen resolutions and thus MUI apps may not actually cope with that depending on how well they were written... which would look craptacular.

    iPad and most Android tablets are single active task and I hope MS can get MUI to be better than those. Microsoft should really work the "ours is actually more useful" angle and build the features to match. Windows 8 is very good once you spend the time and a few more usability tweaks it could become the cross-form-factor OS it intends to be.

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    Re: News - First screenshots featuring the Windows 8.1 Start Button emerge

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    All I want is Win 8 without MUI. What I ended up with was LINUX.
    Didn't want to have to change usage habits... so you changed to Linux...? That makes absolutely no sense to me.

    Windows 8 is still closer to Windows 7 than any Linux if you look beyond the presence or not of a "lower-left-by-default-corner-of-screen-application-launching-menu-wotsit"...

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    Re: News - First screenshots featuring the Windows 8.1 Start Button emerge

    Quote Originally Posted by kingpotnoodle View Post
    Didn't want to have to change usage habits... so you changed to Linux...? That makes absolutely no sense to me.

    Windows 8 is still closer to Windows 7 than any Linux if you look beyond the presence or not of a "lower-left-by-default-corner-of-screen-application-launching-menu-wotsit"...
    If I'm going to have to change habits, then it's time to re-evaluate what gives me the most bang per buck. Given the choice, and on some machines I have chosen, I'll stay with Win7. Others, I'm faced with a long-term choice of Win8+MUI mode of operation, or Linux. I've used Linux for some things for years, so the changeover is minimal effort, especially now that Adobe have shot the pooch for me with the subscription-only model for CS.

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    Re: News - First screenshots featuring the Windows 8.1 Start Button emerge

    Choice and flexibility of interaction is far healthier than a single narrow minded method.
    Microsoft are totally to blame for this, they drummed it into our skulls for over 10 years that the Start Menu is the best tool since the wheel, and then in one fell swoop took it away from us saying you have to hover now, best of luck.
    Last edited by AGTDenton; 30-05-2013 at 02:45 PM.

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    Re: News - First screenshots featuring the Windows 8.1 Start Button emerge

    I read earlier somewhere that ms will also disable the third party start menus such as start8 from working. At least that's what I thought it said.

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    Re: News - First screenshots featuring the Windows 8.1 Start Button emerge

    It's a bit of a shame that all the "start" button does is take you to the metro interface, it doesn't actually do anything other than that. I would have preferred the old start button functionality back, the only other thing it actually does is right clicking on the "start" button brings up the same menu that you can do with windows key+x.

    I have used Win 8 since launch and I rarely if ever use the metro interface so adding a button which does the same as pushing the windows key on the keyboard doesn't seem to add anything for me.
    Jon

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