Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 17 to 32 of 49

Thread: News - Microsoft reminds us of the risks of not moving on from Win XP

  1. #17
    Admin (Ret'd)
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    18,481
    Thanks
    1,016
    Thanked
    3,208 times in 2,281 posts

    Re: News - Microsoft reminds us of the risks of not moving on from Win XP

    Quote Originally Posted by 3dcandy View Post
    Just why?
    I don't know about AGTDenton, but in my case, it's because it does the job, and avoids paying a fortune for new licences, and hardware upgrades, that add NOTHING of utility.

    It's a case of cost/benefit analysis, and my analysis is that upgrading would cost me a fortune and provide no benefit.

  2. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Wonderful Warwick!
    Posts
    3,919
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked
    183 times in 153 posts

    Re: News - Microsoft reminds us of the risks of not moving on from Win XP

    I can't really see how...unless your hardware is so old you'll save about 5 mins a day just from the faster boot present going to Windows 7 and the general speed improvements it provides...

    I just fail to see how people justify it, the security is a no-brainer for me. If you can't afford a Win 7 licence these days then you're doing something wrong...it's not excessive and the benefits will be found very quickly.

    Ref: activation - I'm guessing you've got till April next year then mate as I reckon you'll have to jump through hoops to activate it after that date. And that is how it should be done. XP NEEDS to be killed off!
    Old puter - still good enuff till I save some pennies!

  3. #19
    Admin (Ret'd)
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    18,481
    Thanks
    1,016
    Thanked
    3,208 times in 2,281 posts

    Re: News - Microsoft reminds us of the risks of not moving on from Win XP

    Quote Originally Posted by 3dcandy View Post
    I can't really see how...unless your hardware is so old you'll save about 5 mins a day just from the faster boot present going to Windows 7 and the general speed improvements it provides...

    I just fail to see how people justify it, the security is a no-brainer for me. If you can't afford a Win 7 licence these days then you're doing something wrong...it's not excessive and the benefits will be found very quickly.

    Ref: activation - I'm guessing you've got till April next year then mate as I reckon you'll have to jump through hoops to activate it after that date. And that is how it should be done. XP NEEDS to be killed off!
    I'll bet my XP machines are more secure than your Win 7 machine. If you want to know why, read post 3 in this thread.

    The age of my XP machines varies. One was a dual P2-500, now running dual P2-900s, another has dual Athlon MP1200s and several more are Athlon XPs of various speeds, from about 1500 to 1800. There's a P4-2000, but that's an Intel mobo running RAMBUS memory, and have you noticed the price per MB of RAMBUS over recent years?

    Which brings me to your point about "affording a Win 7 licence". Make that 8 or 9 licences. So, for retail upgrades, £85 a time, times 8 or 9, means it would cost me £700 to £800 just for OS upgrades, never mind trying to get Win 7 running on a Athlon XP1400 with 756MB of memory.

    These are tools to do a job. They've been doing it for years, quite happily, and 100% securely. And, until the hardware falls apart, they will continue to do it quite happily.

    So .... back to that cost/benefit analysis I mentioned. About £750 for OS upgrades. Then, say £200 (or more) for a basic machine to get it to run. So, £285 per machine, 9 machines, that's £2565, or more if £200 is inadequate for the hardware.

    And the benefit? Um, well, nothing actually.

    So answer me this. When those machines are doing what I want of them, perfectly well, would YOU throw £2565 in the bin, to pointlessly upgrade?

    Another example. A friend of mine has half a dozen machines, one per person, in a business environment. These are used for ONE, and only one, purpose, and that is running a specific Excel spreadsheet that does specific data capture, verifies tolerances on a process, and prints a compliance certificate. The point of the machines is saving time on checking basic arithmetic, and data validation, automatic dating, etc. I.e. a simple spreadsheet with half a dozen macros.

    Again, cost to upgrade is around £300. Benefit, none whatever. I could give half a dozen more examples, from personal experience.

    The point is, they're tools doing a job, and doing it quite adequately. Win 7 offers NOTHING that will enhance that job, and nor does a machine that's 10, 100 or 1000 times more powerful. Boot time, since you mention it, is irrelevant. Why? First person in boots the machines, and goes and puts the kettle on. By the time coffee is made, and people are ready to start work, the machines are sitting there, Excel running, waiting for use. And have been for a good 5 minutes. So, time spent waiting for bootup = 0 seconds, per day.

    If you can't see how people justify it, I'd suggest you're lookinf at it through the prism if your usage.

    Are these uses typical of most users, for personal use? No. And I'm not saying there aren't people that should probably upgrade, because there are. But I am categorically saying that there are lots of XP machines for which an upgrade is in absolutely nobody's interests except MS, and perhaps a hardware manufacturer.

  4. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Wonderful Warwick!
    Posts
    3,919
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked
    183 times in 153 posts

    Re: News - Microsoft reminds us of the risks of not moving on from Win XP

    And there in a nutshell is my point - you don't have "normal" useage, and you accuse me of looking at it through a prism?

    I'll just add a little to my point, I recently had 2 machines, both of similiar specs, both fairly underpowered. They were Sempron 1.8 ghz machines with 1 gig of ram. Rest is not really of interest, or doesn't make an issue. One had a problem with a motherboard, I replaced with an equivalent, but I also got a Windows 7 licence. Boot time was reduced and so was general efficiency. The biggest thing however was the actual general performance, the Windows 7 machine was smoother, less prone to disk thrashing, faster (yes just faster all around) and throughout the day got faster in comparison to the XP machine. By the end of an 8 hour working day the notice was considerable, so much so that the worker with the XP machine was complaining that he was held back by his machine whilst the female user of the 7 machine proclaimed she was saving 15 mins at least due to how her machine was faster.

    I'm not saying it a scientific thing at all, but I'd say that 15 mins a day, equalling 105 mins on an average working week is substantial. If you pay that person minimum wage or a bit more, say £7 an hour it's a matter of weeks before the licence has paid for itself.

    Yes you have low spec hardware, and let's not get into how I imagine that it runs like a dog already - but I did make that point in my post. There is no way that it would cost you as much as you're saying to upgrade machines, plenty of reputable dealers out there doing much higher spec refurbs with warranties from about £50. It appears that you are not very forward thinking at all, perhaps even miserly. A newer machine would save you money with reduced energy consumption as well, something that I've not even touched on. You appear to be just focussed on "adequate" as a justification for your needs, rather than perhaps thinking of the positives if you spent some money wisely, in your example. Oh, and yes, I can think of as many examples to beat your examples if you wish to use that too. You've argued your point well, and yes, you may in your example have justification, but as I said, I can justify the decisions to upgrade for many others too. And finally, that brings me onto my final point. I have software that requires the use of Vista or later. I really have no option but to have upgraded in that case, and perhaps it was forced on me. I don't regret going Win 7 at all, believe it's advantages far outweigh the disadvantages and I'm happy with my choice. The software means I get my work done quicker, better (results wise) and wouldn't go back to XP willingly. Sire, we shall beg to differ on this, but I believe that we both can justify our decisions...
    Old puter - still good enuff till I save some pennies!

  5. #21
    Admin (Ret'd)
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    18,481
    Thanks
    1,016
    Thanked
    3,208 times in 2,281 posts

    Re: News - Microsoft reminds us of the risks of not moving on from Win XP

    Quote Originally Posted by 3dcandy View Post
    And there in a nutshell is my point - you don't have "normal" useage, and you accuse me of looking at it through a prism?

    I'll just add a little to my point, I recently had 2 machines, both of similiar specs, both fairly underpowered. They were Sempron 1.8 ghz machines with 1 gig of ram. Rest is not really of interest, or doesn't make an issue. One had a problem with a motherboard, I replaced with an equivalent, but I also got a Windows 7 licence. Boot time was reduced and so was general efficiency. The biggest thing however was the actual general performance, the Windows 7 machine was smoother, less prone to disk thrashing, faster (yes just faster all around) and throughout the day got faster in comparison to the XP machine. By the end of an 8 hour working day the notice was considerable, so much so that the worker with the XP machine was complaining that he was held back by his machine whilst the female user of the 7 machine proclaimed she was saving 15 mins at least due to how her machine was faster.

    I'm not saying it a scientific thing at all, but I'd say that 15 mins a day, equalling 105 mins on an average working week is substantial. If you pay that person minimum wage or a bit more, say £7 an hour it's a matter of weeks before the licence has paid for itself.

    Yes you have low spec hardware, and let's not get into how I imagine that it runs like a dog already - but I did make that point in my post. There is no way that it would cost you as much as you're saying to upgrade machines, plenty of reputable dealers out there doing much higher spec refurbs with warranties from about £50. It appears that you are not very forward thinking at all, perhaps even miserly. A newer machine would save you money with reduced energy consumption as well, something that I've not even touched on. You appear to be just focussed on "adequate" as a justification for your needs, rather than perhaps thinking of the positives if you spent some money wisely, in your example. Oh, and yes, I can think of as many examples to beat your examples if you wish to use that too. You've argued your point well, and yes, you may in your example have justification, but as I said, I can justify the decisions to upgrade for many others too. And finally, that brings me onto my final point. I have software that requires the use of Vista or later. I really have no option but to have upgraded in that case, and perhaps it was forced on me. I don't regret going Win 7 at all, believe it's advantages far outweigh the disadvantages and I'm happy with my choice. The software means I get my work done quicker, better (results wise) and wouldn't go back to XP willingly. Sire, we shall beg to differ on this, but I believe that we both can justify our decisions...
    At no point have I suggested that upgrading doesn't make sense for anyone still with XP. The opposite in fact. I've said repeatedly that it does for some users. It all depends on what the machine is used for.

    You, on the other hand, said XP has to go.

    So, what I want is that I decide if and when my machines aren't going to be upgraded. You want to decide for me to, because "XP needs to be killed off".

    As for your cost argument, these "slow" machines are not at all inefficient, and not costing staff time. Not 15 seconds a day, never mind 15 minutes. In my case, they are largey doing jobs requiring no human intervention, and certainly don't have someone sitting at it every day. Bear in mind, my use is home use, and the people using these machines are me, myself and I. And for day to day use, my main machine is a net-connected quad core modern machine, which I boot into Win 7, Win 8 or Ubuntu, by changing hard drive, depending on what I want at that point. Some of the other machines are driving old hardware, like a dye-sublimation printer. And as a long-redundant model, no post-XP drivers are available. And even if they were, it works fine now, so why mess with it? Another controls an old radio transceiver, and yes, modern software is available .... at a cost.

    In the business context, the machines doing that process validation, for example, are used to type a few numbers into cells in an Excel spreadsheet. It's not rocket science. It's of the order of calculating +0.0025 minus -0.0030, and comparing to a predetermined value, and colouring the cell red with conditional formatting if that value is exceeded. Meanwhile, the human is back with the physical process. 30 numbers or so later, print the page.

    Nothing in there is going to gain even nanoseconds of time by upgrading. I know, because I time-trialled it, without telling the users. Yet, if we were to upgrade, you either have downtime for those staff while you do it, or you have overtime for the person doing the upgrades, to do it out of normal hours. Since that'd probably be me, I sure don't mind, but the person paying the bill will not, I assure you, go for it.

    And further, before such upgrades could be made, everything would have to be tested. This process is past of a legally mandated calibration and verification process, required by EU Metrology legislation, and done under the auspices of Trading Standard's enforcement. How it is done is up to the company concerned, but they have to ge SURE it is done right. Any change requires them to be confident it isn't affecting the outcomes of a legal validation process. For instance, changing from Excel to OpenOffice, when tested, DID affect the results. Some conditional formatting didn't work, meaning fails could have been missed.

    So, add the cost of consultancy time (mine, again) for all the testing. And with unknown, £50-per-machine second-hand and refurbished hardware? I don't think so, somehow.

    Because, for what? What does the company save? Electricity? Yeah, maybe, though minimal. These aren't power-hog machines. Staff time? Not a chance.

    My point about prisms is that there are good reasons for not upgrading. Not for everybody, but for some. I was involved as a very small cog in one retailer that only just (two or three years ago) finished upgrading thousands of machines from proprietary hardware and software TO XP-based systems, in a project costing, oh, £20 million or so. Why? Because it required extensive software development, huge amounts of testing, took lots of time, collosal amounts of man-power and a phased upgrade program that took several years to complete. I'm not privy to their board-level discussions, but I'd bet that they would revolve around cost versus benefit, even though WinXP to Win7 would be far less costly than that £20 million cost, because nowhere near as much work would be needed, it would still be very expensive, and require loads of overtime because they are NOT going to lose what would be up to several hundred thousand pounds, per branch per day, by doing it during trading hours.

    The "prism", therefore, is the failure to understand that people not upgrading may (or may not) have VERY good reasons for sticking to XP. You did, after all, say
    I just fail to see how people justify it, the security is a no-brainer for me.
    I am pointing out the justification. Not all XP users are necessarily justified in sticking. I don't know the circumstances of all. You say you have examples of people that should upgrade? Great. So do I. But not everyone. There are good reasons for not doing so.

    I have one software application with a LOT of custom data in it. It's database-based, customised and no longer available. It's so far refused ALL attempts to get it to run under Win7, including in Ultimate. So I can either spend loads more time trying to get Win7 to run it, or port it to another application and spend what would probably be weeks redeveloping the customisations, and then porting (manually) 15 years of data, or I can just carry on with an XP machine that works fine.

    So whether it be that machine, or me supporting hardware for which Win7 drivers don't exist, or it be that retailer that's spent years upgrading thousands of machines, there are a multitude of reasons why upgrading is not, always, the no-brainer you seem to think.

    And as for Win7's much-vaunted improved security, oh yes, for typical home users and even most small businesses IF there machines are net-connected, but by no means are all small (or large, or even very large for that matter) business machines net-connected, or need to be. Security then becomes an entirely different game, and is more likely to involve physical access protection, like a locked cabinet) or removal/disabling of external drive access, like taking out CD/DVD drives and disconnecting USB ports.

    For my part, MS can "kill off" support for XP today if they wish. Or could have done it 5 years ago. It will change nothing for me. Those machines I mentioned? Not one is on SP3. Several are SP2, a couple are SP1. Why? Because they work, day in, day out, and I see no need to "fix" something that for MY uses, ain't broken.

    No, my usage isn't "normal". But a lot of people have non-normal usage, of one flavour or another. And THAT was my point about prisms.

  6. #22
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Wonderful Warwick!
    Posts
    3,919
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked
    183 times in 153 posts

    Re: News - Microsoft reminds us of the risks of not moving on from Win XP

    My Saracen a psychologist would have a field day with you...you've turned it all being about you, you and yes a bit more you...
    XP deserves to be killed off, it's old, out of date, security nightmare - all true.
    Your useage is not normal, again true.

    The venomous way you defend your reasoning is bizarre, you assume I was having a go at you personally - not at all.
    Chill out, you made your point well...in fact a sledgehammer approach doesn't always work. I wasn't aiming the post at you, just using what you debated to say I can have as many examples as you probably had to justify what I said.

    I cannot think of a product that is so old, so past it's useful time for the majority of people, that is still being clung on to by folks. That's part of the generalisation of PC's I guess. As I said, I agree to differ with you, can't see why you have to be so forceful in your defence - almost makes you appear a bit narrow minded in fact. Now that's me done, I'm out. I expect a lovely long-winded response, but to be fair I doubt I'll read it as I have better things to do like watch paint dry.
    Old puter - still good enuff till I save some pennies!

  7. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Wonderful Warwick!
    Posts
    3,919
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked
    183 times in 153 posts

    Re: News - Microsoft reminds us of the risks of not moving on from Win XP

    In fact, to be fair, sometimes I find your tone very vitriolic and not in keeping with your forum admin status. You can be remiss and as Hexus is a hardware site, your backward thinking views sometimes must be at odds with Hexus Hardware and moving forward...
    Old puter - still good enuff till I save some pennies!

  8. #24
    Admin (Ret'd)
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    18,481
    Thanks
    1,016
    Thanked
    3,208 times in 2,281 posts

    Re: News - Microsoft reminds us of the risks of not moving on from Win XP

    Quote Originally Posted by 3dcandy View Post
    In fact, to be fair, sometimes I find your tone very vitriolic and not in keeping with your forum admin status. You can be remiss and as Hexus is a hardware site, your backward thinking views sometimes must be at odds with Hexus Hardware and moving forward...
    Now I will be blunt.

    Rubbish.

    I am a member, and as a member, I am FULLY entitled to express a opinion, just as you are.

    Nothing, absolutely NOTHING about being an admin here changes that.

    I have NOT made this all about me. What I have done is express an OPINION, on XP, and use examples to illustrate the point. Some of those examples are of my personal use, some are direct from my experience, be it small business or very large ones, but they are real world examples, from personal experience. Whose experience do you want me to use?



    Now, here's the bit in admin mode.

    Your last couple of posts are a direct, personal attack, and THAT is not allowed by our rules.

    Had you chosen to make a complaint to another admin, or the owner, fine. I'll abide by their decision.

    Had you PM'd me, fine. We could have dealt with that privately.

    Seeing as you chose to do that in public, I'll respond directly. Your next post had better be an apology, or a suspension will follow immediately. You have a chance. Your choicel

    But that kind of attack will not be tolerated.

  9. #25
    Going Retro!!! Ferral's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    North East
    Posts
    7,860
    Thanks
    562
    Thanked
    1,439 times in 877 posts
    • Ferral's system
      • Motherboard:
      • ASUS Z97-P
      • CPU:
      • Intel i7 4790K Haswell
      • Memory:
      • 12Gb Corsair XMS3 DDR3 1600 Mhz
      • Storage:
      • 120Gb Kingston SSD & 2 Tb Toshiba
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Sapphire Radeon R9 380 Nitro 4Gb
      • PSU:
      • Antec Truepower 750 Watt Modular
      • Case:
      • Fractal Design Focus G Mid Tower
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 64 bit
      • Monitor(s):
      • 28" iiyama Prolite 4K
      • Internet:
      • 80Mb BT Fiber

    Re: News - Microsoft reminds us of the risks of not moving on from Win XP

    Personal attacks WILL NOT be tolerated here in any way, shape or form. It doesn't matter whether you are a standard member to the site, a mod or even an Admin.

    I have gave out bans after warnings have not been heeded in the past, ask a few members here and they know what I am talking about. I don't hold grudges with anyone, even some members after they have received temporary bans from me have approached me afterwards with a fair enough.

    So going on what I have said above, I REALLY think you (3Dcandy) need to apologize publicly to Saracen, you attacked him openly on the boards and it is not on at all. I am not just saying this because he is another Admin, I would be taking the same stance if something was aimed at a standard member.

    This is the only warning that is going to be given, another insult or unjust remark towards anyone on these forums you will receive a 2 week suspension to accessing our forums.

    Now can we also get this discussion back on the right tracks please

  10. #26
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Wonderful Warwick!
    Posts
    3,919
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked
    183 times in 153 posts

    Re: News - Microsoft reminds us of the risks of not moving on from Win XP

    A personal attack - still about you isn't it? Why should I apologise for me having an opinion exactly the same as you do...in one fell swoop you've just confirmed your unsuitability as an admin...

    Congrats sire, I applaud you....bait taken hook, line and sinker....
    Old puter - still good enuff till I save some pennies!

  11. #27
    HEXUS.timelord. Zak33's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    I'm a Jessie
    Posts
    35,176
    Thanks
    3,121
    Thanked
    3,173 times in 1,922 posts
    • Zak33's system
      • Storage:
      • Kingston HyperX SSD, Hitachi 1Tb
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Nvidia 1050
      • PSU:
      • Coolermaster 800w
      • Case:
      • Silverstone Fortress FT01
      • Operating System:
      • Win10
      • Internet:
      • Zen FTC uber speedy

    Re: News - Microsoft reminds us of the risks of not moving on from Win XP

    Quote Originally Posted by 3dcandy View Post


    Congrats sire, I applaud you....bait taken hook, line and sinker....
    lol.... he's far from fish like candy....

    far far from fish like.. though he must have a fair Omega 3 intake as the chap has a fair intellect on him.

    I like XP. it should hang around a while longer.

    I've got an old gaming machine that I still play certain games on with sa certain sound card than Win7 won't support.

    Don't see a need for it to die....

    and the networking options are SO simple...

    Quote Originally Posted by Advice Trinity by Knoxville
    "The second you aren't paying attention to the tool you're using, it will take your fingers from you. It does not know sympathy." |
    "If you don't gaffer it, it will gaffer you" | "Belt and braces"

  12. #28
    HEXUS.timelord. Zak33's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    I'm a Jessie
    Posts
    35,176
    Thanks
    3,121
    Thanked
    3,173 times in 1,922 posts
    • Zak33's system
      • Storage:
      • Kingston HyperX SSD, Hitachi 1Tb
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Nvidia 1050
      • PSU:
      • Coolermaster 800w
      • Case:
      • Silverstone Fortress FT01
      • Operating System:
      • Win10
      • Internet:
      • Zen FTC uber speedy

    Re: News - Microsoft reminds us of the risks of not moving on from Win XP

    oh.. by the way...

    he's a good admin.

    has been for a long time.

    ok..not as good as me... except... I still break things.. and he... fixes them after I bugger them up.

    so.... bored with the goading now. Crack on pls.

    Quote Originally Posted by Advice Trinity by Knoxville
    "The second you aren't paying attention to the tool you're using, it will take your fingers from you. It does not know sympathy." |
    "If you don't gaffer it, it will gaffer you" | "Belt and braces"

  13. #29
    Gentoo Ricer
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Galway
    Posts
    11,048
    Thanks
    1,016
    Thanked
    944 times in 704 posts
    • aidanjt's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus Strix Z370-G
      • CPU:
      • Intel i7-8700K
      • Memory:
      • 2x8GB Corsiar LPX 3000C15
      • Storage:
      • 500GB Samsung 960 EVO
      • Graphics card(s):
      • EVGA GTX 970 SC ACX 2.0
      • PSU:
      • EVGA G3 750W
      • Case:
      • Fractal Design Define C Mini
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 Pro
      • Monitor(s):
      • Asus MG279Q
      • Internet:
      • 240mbps Virgin Cable

    Re: News - Microsoft reminds us of the risks of not moving on from Win XP

    Quote Originally Posted by 3dcandy View Post
    A personal attack - still about you isn't it? Why should I apologise for me having an opinion exactly the same as you do...in one fell swoop you've just confirmed your unsuitability as an admin...

    Congrats sire, I applaud you....bait taken hook, line and sinker....
    Attack the arguments, not the person. Just because you have nothing to refute his points, it doesn't mean a personal attack is a valid response. Getting heated is one thing, jabs about psychological fitness, being 'backwards', and administrative objectivity were all completely uncalled for. You're being way out of line, and Saracen rightly called you on it. Just because someone differs in opinion than you, it doesn't make you right and them wrong, or vice versa. Sometimes a difference in opinion is just that. In this case, he has a completely valid point about software compatibility, and not fixing what aint broken. And new == better is a fallacy called an appeal to novelty. In many respects, computer software is becoming incrementally worse as it continues to exponentially bloat and accumulate more buggy and exploitable code, and applies untested retrograde usage paradigms for nothing more than to peddle mobile brand recognition and platform appeal. You're perfectly free to slurp whatever koolaid Microsoft's marketing team has served you with, but do not denigrate those who don't.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    ...every time Creative bring out a new card range their advertising makes it sound like they have discovered a way to insert a thousand Chuck Norris super dwarfs in your ears...

  14. #30
    Admin (Ret'd)
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    18,481
    Thanks
    1,016
    Thanked
    3,208 times in 2,281 posts

    Re: News - Microsoft reminds us of the risks of not moving on from Win XP

    Quote Originally Posted by 3dcandy View Post
    A personal attack - still about you isn't it? Why should I apologise for me having an opinion exactly the same as you do...in one fell swoop you've just confirmed your unsuitability as an admin...

    Congrats sire, I applaud you....bait taken hook, line and sinker....
    You break a rule, insult an admin, and then try to cover it up with calling it "bait"?

    That won't wash.

    You were warned, by TWO admins.

    You now have 2 week ban. Keep that up when, and if, you come back and it'll be a longer one.

  15. #31
    Admin (Ret'd)
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    18,481
    Thanks
    1,016
    Thanked
    3,208 times in 2,281 posts

    Re: News - Microsoft reminds us of the risks of not moving on from Win XP

    Quote Originally Posted by aidanjt View Post
    Attack the arguments, not the person. Just because you have nothing to refute his points, it doesn't mean a personal attack is a valid response. Getting heated is one thing, jabs about psychological fitness, being 'backwards', and administrative objectivity were all completely uncalled for. You're being way out of line, and Saracen rightly called you on it. Just because someone differs in opinion than you, it doesn't make you right and them wrong, or vice versa. Sometimes a difference in opinion is just that. ....
    Exactly.

    And that from someone with whom I frequently disagree, and have for years. But we manage to make it about about the arguments, not the personalities. The same is said for Animus, Santa and others. I disagree with them all on some things, agree on others, and have some VERY long arguments.

    But courteously.

  16. #32
    Admin (Ret'd)
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    18,481
    Thanks
    1,016
    Thanked
    3,208 times in 2,281 posts

    Re: News - Microsoft reminds us of the risks of not moving on from Win XP

    Now, show's over, back on topic everyone, please.

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •