I want one - well maybe a low spec laptop version anyway. Something that will let me access all my simple steam games locally but also let me stream games from my PC is a winner in my book. I'm looking forward to playing some decent games from my sofa!
As long as you have a supported Kepler card in your laptop,then you install the OS as a dual boot. The streaming technology is actually licensed from Nvidia. Not sure it will work on Intel or AMD GPUs.Originally Posted by cheesemp
Again no - DEVELOPMENT box. I seem to remember that the XBox360 dev rigs were pretty expensive too - certainly a lot more than the console sold for at retail. There's also "fluff" (?) from Valve that some of the test boxes are ferociously more highly spec'd than any real Steam Machine/Box is going to be - to test the OS on a home build box. You know - the kind that PC enthusiasts might put together.
Partially true - Valve controls the main/official software dist on the platform. Think mobile phone/tablet - yes Apple/Google/Amazon (as appropriate) control the preferred distribution but, given this is a Linux base, do you think for a millisecond that someone out there isn't going to figure out how to sideload within a short time of it being released?
As to the "locked down" charge, no. Read the site (http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamOS) and it says "Users can alter or replace any part of the software or hardware they want.". And since Steam Machine=hardware+SteamOS I can't see any reason why this shouldn't also be the case for the SteamMachine.
Oh, and as to the charge that SteamOS is "NVidia only", look at the tweet from John Carmack: "Considering the boost Mantle could give to a steambox, MS and Sony may wind up being downright hostile to it." - not the kind of thing to say if you're planning to be "green team" only?
Okay, I think you're onto something there. I NEVER bought into the hype around Half Life ("best game evah" my Aunt Sally!), so I'm not a fan boy. Likewise IF they fall short of what they've already hard promised (like the "you can change anything" item above) then I'll join Engadget (and you) in giving them the black spot. However, at the moment, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for daring to try something a little bit different from Sony and Microsoft.
Actually I didn't ignore the console parts - given the high respect I have for your opinions normally that would be silly. But, in the interests of brevity, I thought to omit them - apologies if this has removed some crucial argument point you wanted to make.
No where I was in agreement with something you said was in that the Steam Machines seem to be a strange hybrid of console and PC. What I'm hoping for is a console-like affordability coupled with the expandability of a proper PC. Again, the Steam Machine is only of academic interest to me - can it draw in more support? - and I want SteamOS on a proper PC.
If that then gives me the flexibility of a console without the drawbacks of Windows then bring it on. What does make me smile though is folks who wail about SteamOS being tailored for gaming, while still wanting every last FPS out of their Windows system. In the current market I can't see why there isn't a slot for SteamOS IF - and it's still a big if - Valve can get support from developers other than themselves.
You have that right, just as long as it doesn't degrade into 'el Reg' style personal abuse, which I can't see happening.
Career status: still enjoying my new career in DevOps, but it's keeping me busy...
Well, I can't see that happening either.
Well you might be able to, but the rest of us won'tWell, I can't see that happening either.
^^^^ Made me giggle. Valve created demo setups. Examples. They are not going to sell these systems as far as their website goes. Thats a third party thing. So a dell steambox. (Or alienwarex51 with steam os if you will)
They have told the beta testers to hack and adjust the boxes as they please. How is that locked down? Its linux. Dual boot, change hardware. Check their FAQ for more information.
Again as for hardware costs, ive gone through 4 xbox 360's. Not including controller costs, play charge kits etc etc. It adds up to a nice desktop pc. Oh and one small detail on the cost side of things. Most console players go out and buy a nice full hdtv led backlit lg or sony screen (examples) how much is a decent pc monitor? Costs can be changed. The steam box is the same as any pc. You build to your budget. Consoles dont do that nor can you build a ps4 bit by bit. And due to console being stuck for 8 years on same hardware, means the pc can cope easily with even a modest gpu setup. Hell i have a 9800gt that can still play modern games. Even an AMD apu build should suffice ( yes AMD are working on driver support, check valves FAQ's and info)
So, linux based os. Company telling you to mess around with it. Changing hardware specs to suit budgets. More than one use. Os to be available to pc builders. Hmmm. Looks good to me. Just waiting to see if the controller is any good, on the plus side os uses it as a kb/mouse out of games too. Lots of potential.
Excuse the poor structure and any typos in this post. Its late. Simples.
You mean the TV that most people watch TV and films on?? Already a sunk cost.
You mean like the thousands of quid over the last decade,once you start adding up the cost of all the parts spent on buying and upgrading new PCs??
The PC is only really viable as a platform since it has cheaper games,which also negates the fact that because of Valve and Steam,in reality there is no secondhand market in practice anymore for PC games.
Most of my friends have gaming PCs and most of them are techies. I am a person who has always gone for value options and yet over 8 to 10 years I have spent loads on hardware.
Even,on here I have always pushed lower budget options,as I am not one who really cares for £150+ CPUs and the like,as I prefer value for money over E-PEEN.
However,most people don't build PCs. They go and buy one. That is a whole replacement.
You mean the RROD?? My mate had two XBox 360s which did that and MS replaced them each time. His only sunk cost was the first console.
Moreover,most people buy a laptop and use it for years. Look at the PC market - it is declining especially desktops.
Desktops are increasingly being replaced by laptops and hybrid tablets. A £300 to £400 laptop from 5 years ago is still good enough for most stuff. Even older desktops and laptops will do basic tasks fine.
Windows 8 runs fine on my backup E3400 with 4GB and a Nvidia 9300 IGP.
People are now replacing their laptops with touch enabled devices,which means traditional laptop sales are also being affected.
If you look at Intel and AMD sales,they have been adversely affected by this,and Intel profits have only been maintained as their commercial operations,ie,servers and the like managed to stem the tide. Look at their massive investment in Bay Trail and AMD in Jaguar. All,low power CPUs made for use in touch enabled netbooks and tablets. That is the way the market is going.
Desktop sales are declining and year on year discrete card sales are declining(IGPs are eating into this,but it also shows how many system are not having performance cards).
People have to make a conscious decision to buy a desktop,and for most people they are large and bulky especially considering the screen is seperate too. They take up space and are not that portable too.
OTH,I also know quite techy mates(who are also software programmers and computer scientists) who used to build PCs,but just now use a console hooked up to their TV,and a laptop with the desktop gathering dust in the corner. They can play on the sofa,and get their mates around for some silly fun. The SteamBox is attempting to do this but hardware will always cost more over time as its a PC built to PC upgrade cycles.
Again,the upfront costs of a gaming PC are more for most people as they buy them from shops,not build them. Not everyone has a techy as a mate who can build them a PC.
I am a desktop owner through and through and building them is one of my main hobbies. I have never bought any console outside the handheld ones when I was younger. However,even I know the majority do not care for desktops.
The problem on tech forums,you have a whole load of DIY PC enthusiasts, well thinking as DIY PC enthusiasts,like here.
Most have never understood why consoles have been so popular to this day,and still don't get it.
The biggest PC games in terms of sales numbers are made to run on old hardware,even IGPs in laptops. DOTA and LoL for example will run fine on a laptop.
Heck,it would not surprise we soon find them on Android devices in the next two years,but how well would modern FPS games run on old hardware?? Not that great,as AMD,Intel and Nvidia have no incentive to make this happen as it costs them sales. The old consoles might be the poor option compared to a brand new £800 gaming PC,but at least there is an incentive to get games running on them.
This is why people are getting all excited about Mantle.
8 years ago,the best hardware was an Athlon X2 and a Nvidia 7800GTX 512MB with probably 2GB of RAM,which would have cost a load of cash.
How well would it cope now? How many hardware upgrades would it have needed overtime??
Would it play every game on Steam?
What about CoD:Ghosts then? Crysis3? BF4?
CoD:Ghosts locks PC gamers out if they have less than 6GB of RAM even though it uses less.
If you build or buy a prebuilt SteamBox,will it run every game fine on Steam in 6 to 8 years time??
Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 06-11-2013 at 12:30 PM.
The xbox's. Yes i have had RROD fixed by M$ however i have purchased about 4 of the actual consoles ( out of warrenty and not just RROD issues)
The 8 year old pc hardware is upgradable for a low cost. My 9800gt that can run crysis1 & 2 (ill admit crysis1 doesnt run that high buy still better than any console can) and that only cost £90 at the time of purchase many years ago. Yes if you add all the costs over time it will make a large figure, but think of all those cheaper game sales you get and how much you use that pc for. Do you inly game on your pc? No youtube or office uses. Emailing.
Cod:ghosts needs 6gig of ram, yet its a latest release and around the time of new gen consoles. So compare it to a modern pc thank you not an 8 year old spec. Most gaming systems will have 8gig of ram if you buy today. Or build. And dont the new consoles struggle with bf4 ? 720p for xbone and 900p for ps4 both upscaled to 1080p. I think that was in hexus this past week.
I agree on igpu's though. AMD apu's can run quite a few games, cheap to build with. Can be made into tiny form factors. And have more utility than a console.
Console are popular because its plug and play. Doesnt mean its a better system, the same as having better graphics doesnt make a better game. And as you say most pc builders cant see why consoles are so popular, then why cant you see what valve is tryin to do as a positive thing? Building a new OS and a console style pc so more people can game as we do. And more. Open office on your console, do homework and play on one device.
You didnt pick on alot of my points. Only hardware then and now. Costs. Costs are over time. So is the hardware. And the techy mate who builds them, isnt that what scan is for. They offer good prebuilt gaming systems at a good price. Wouldnt a gamer have some idea about hardware too? Or atleast google. So many guides out there these days to build a pc, even a monkey can do it.
As for the decline in hardware sales. You ever think thats because the upgrades are not needed. Older hardware can still run todays games and software as the poeple want or need. Give it less than a year and the sales will pick up.
You bash steambox but praise android gaming. In the next two years what hardware do you think that android device will be using? Latest and greatest. Not old tech. Blah blah etc etc.
Of all the points in my post you bring out cost, rrod and old hardware vs next gen. Nothing about how "closed" you state it is. Or how the hardware will be. Or who sells it. So im going to guess you read up about it.
Again. Cba to debate, just read before ranting about steambox's.
Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 06-11-2013 at 05:33 PM.
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