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Thread: News - AMD FX processors won’t get Steamroller cores in 2014

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    Re: News - AMD FX processors won’t get Steamroller cores in 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    Firstly,socket 1150 only has 16 lanes of PCI-E 3.0 available. In Crossfire or SLI setups that is a pair of 8 PCI-E 3.0 lane clusters available. The 990FX has 32+ PCI-E 2.0 lanes available so it is actually no different in PCI-E speed in dual card setups.
    Unless you get a mobo with a PLX chip which gives 2x16 PCIe3.0

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    Re: News - AMD FX processors won’t get Steamroller cores in 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by HalloweenJack View Post
    AMD could release an AM3+ 8 core kevari - with the igp part disabled for gfx duty but could be used for FPU work?
    but it wouldn't have the ability to provide the PCIe lanes required. It would need a new chip. Something like an FX steamroller, which was supposed to come out Q1 2014 but AMD have kind of... well they've gone silent about it. Like it probably won't happen and we might all forget they ever published a road map with it on.

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    Re: News - AMD FX processors won’t get Steamroller cores in 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by ik9000 View Post
    but it wouldn't have the ability to provide the PCIe lanes required. It would need a new chip. Something like an FX steamroller, which was supposed to come out Q1 2014 but AMD have kind of... well they've gone silent about it. Like it probably won't happen and we might all forget they ever published a road map with it on.
    http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/SAB...990FXGEN3_R20/

    asus did pcie3 on AM3+ allready

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    Re: News - AMD FX processors won’t get Steamroller cores in 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by ik9000 View Post
    but it wouldn't have the ability to provide the PCIe lanes required. It would need a new chip. Something like an FX steamroller, which was supposed to come out Q1 2014 but AMD have kind of... well they've gone silent about it. Like it probably won't happen and we might all forget they ever published a road map with it on.
    Whilst PCIe 3.0 might be important in tri/quad SLI setups (and probably more so in crossfire since they've binned the bridges) the number of people using those types of systems must be in the low six digits across the entire world. And the number of them that would bother with quad SLI and then not want the absolute fastest CPU performance (i.e. not AMD) I'd be surprised if it even got into 10s of thousands.

    For 'enthusiast' grade systems single card, or at most dual card @1440p is still the benchmark, GPUs need to get much faster before pcie3 is neccessary. Even in triple head setups the difference is pretty slight.

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    Re: News - AMD FX processors won’t get Steamroller cores in 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by ik9000 View Post
    Yes, and for things that make use of it Mantle will help, but don't things have to be scripted with it in mind? If so there will be other areas it won't make a difference with. A lot of the current benchmarks won't suddenly improve with mantle. Unless I've misunderstood what mantle is and how it works...
    The games which tend to need high framerates are FPS games when you come to think of it,and you will realise where Mantle support is first coming out for,

    Mantle supports is already confirmed by some of the biggest devs,like DICE,Activision and Crytek. Now look at the engines that two of them use,ie,CryENGINE3 and Frostbite 3 which will be used on multiple next generation titles,and idTech5 from id software runs well on AMD FX CPUs(FX8150 is faster than a Core i5 2500K). The last two major engines will be Source3 and Unreal Engine 4,and the preceding engines already threaded reasonably well,so they will probably will run reasonably well on AMD CPUs. Moreover,even games like Skyrim run perfectly fine on older CPUs,and Skyrim Online is going to use a multi-threaded engine.

    PS2 has gone from a lightly threaded game to a one which can use multiple threads just in the last week,and the peformance boost is amazng.

    The reason?? A PS4 version is being released.

    The thing is a lot of the older engines will be gone in the immediate future as many games are multiplatform,and the new consoles are DX11 compatible. A lot of these very engines are only DX9 too. The ones remaining will be used in games which give good framerates with older hardware,ie,targeting many casual gamers too,not hardcore ones with decent hardware.

    Even PC exclusive games like LOL,DOTA and Minecraft which are lightly threaded run perfectly fine on even older CPUs. Its the reason they are popular,ie,they are scalable. You get decent framerates at realworld settings with a range of hardware.
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 20-11-2013 at 12:38 PM.

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    Re: News - AMD FX processors won’t get Steamroller cores in 2014

    minecraft is on xbox

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    Re: News - AMD FX processors won’t get Steamroller cores in 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by HalloweenJack View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by herulach View Post
    Whilst PCIe 3.0 might be important in tri/quad SLI setups (and probably more so in crossfire since they've binned the bridges) the number of people using those types of systems must be in the low six digits across the entire world. And the number of them that would bother with quad SLI and then not want the absolute fastest CPU performance (i.e. not AMD) I'd be surprised if it even got into 10s of thousands.

    For 'enthusiast' grade systems single card, or at most dual card @1440p is still the benchmark, GPUs need to get much faster before pcie3 is neccessary. Even in triple head setups the difference is pretty slight.
    I was referring to the person's post about disabling GPU on Kavari - fine idea, but then to run a discreet GPU the chip architecture needs to provide I/O and bandwidth for PCIe and I'm not sure it has that capability built into it

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    Re: News - AMD FX processors won’t get Steamroller cores in 2014

    interesting:

    AMD has more PCIE lanes available than Intel - AMD has 32 whereas (including PCH) intel has 20 , and they all cant be full speed , as its limited by the DMI.


    heres a test.


    can someone with a haswell board run a heavy 3d benchmark , AND do a big data transfer over a GB nic? , having a thought something has to throttle.

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    Re: News - AMD FX processors won’t get Steamroller cores in 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by ik9000 View Post
    I was referring to the person's post about disabling GPU on Kavari - fine idea, but then to run a discreet GPU the chip architecture needs to provide I/O and bandwidth for PCIe and I'm not sure it has that capability built into it
    My apologies - I didn't pick that up. I don't know if the APU will use some of the PCIe lanes internally if the GPU isn't disabled, but even if it does KAveri would still be able to offer a full 16 pcie2 lanes to a single card. The fact that you can crossfire with the APU demonstrates that its possible to have both that and a PCIe GPU enabled.

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    Re: News - AMD FX processors won’t get Steamroller cores in 2014

    Problem with trying to shift anything from FM2+ to AM3+ is that AM3+ requires Hypertransport links, whjich simply aren't there on the Kaveri die*. So it's impossible to use Kaveri silicon with AM3+ without a lot of messing around. It's more interesting that the BD/PD FX dice apparently have PCIe lanes on them, as this *might* make it possible to use PD FX silicon on FM2+ (which I'd guess would be AMDs preferred solution, converging on a single consumer platform). But since it seems to be pretty much a foregone conclusion that FM2+ will be superceded by a new DDR4-supporting platform in a year or so, it wouldn't make a lot of sense to move FX from an existing platform nearing EOL, to another existing platform also nearing EOL.

    AMD have pretty much always used the same silicon for desktop and server parts. If server DDR4 adoption is starting to approach critical mass, AMD are surely going to start looking at creating server parts with DDR4 memory controllers. The last time this happened (DDR2/DDR3) they went for a hybrid controller, but AFAIK that's just not practical with DDR3/DDR4, so they're going to have to drop DDR3 support at the outset. That only really leaves 3 options for FX: create a new enthusiast chipset with DDR4 support, design a separate Steamroller die with DDR3 memory controller, or keep serving AM3+ with old parts for a year until the new consumer DDR4 chipset is ready. Which of those do we think will see the best ROI?

    *EDIT: interestingly though, to get an 8 core part out of Kaveri you'd have to do a 2-chip MCM, and that would have 32 PCIe 3 lanes available: 16 from each kaveri chip. Interesting, n'est pas?

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    Re: News - AMD FX processors won’t get Steamroller cores in 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by HalloweenJack View Post
    interesting:

    AMD has more PCIE lanes available than Intel - AMD has 32 whereas (including PCH) intel has 20 , and they all cant be full speed , as its limited by the DMI.


    heres a test.


    can someone with a haswell board run a heavy 3d benchmark , AND do a big data transfer over a GB nic? , having a thought something has to throttle.
    Would this actually happen though? ie a real world usage example would be? BF4 gaming with backup to NAS in the background? Would that be heavy enough data transfer? If you're gaming you're gaming, and on my machine that means everything else shut down, and all net ports blocked except those the game needs to run.

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    Re: News - AMD FX processors won’t get Steamroller cores in 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by scaryjim View Post

    *EDIT: interestingly though, to get an 8 core part out of Kaveri you'd have to do a 2-chip MCM, and that would have 32 PCIe 3 lanes available: 16 from each kaveri chip. Interesting, n'est pas?
    Mays wees Rodney, mays wees.

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    Re: News - AMD FX processors won’t get Steamroller cores in 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by scaryjim View Post
    *EDIT: interestingly though, to get an 8 core part out of Kaveri you'd have to do a 2-chip MCM, and that would have 32 PCIe 3 lanes available: 16 from each kaveri chip. Interesting, n'est pas?

    ala PS4 and Xbox one?

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    Re: News - AMD FX processors won’t get Steamroller cores in 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by ik9000 View Post
    Unless you get a mobo with a PLX chip which gives 2x16 PCIe3.0
    PLX is essentially a switch - it doesn't magically give you more PCIe bandwidth - if you have two cards saturating their lanes, each will be left with what they would've had in the first place, and probably with a bit of extra overhead loss from the PLX.

    In reality though, you won't get a noticeable drop in gaming performance until you go down to something like 4x PCIe 2.0 (even less in most games). PCIe 3.0 might be good for bragging rights, but there's no realistic reason to factor it into a buying decision for a gaming system.

    http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/I...caling/23.html

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    Re: News - AMD FX processors won’t get Steamroller cores in 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by watercooled View Post
    PLX is essentially a switch - it doesn't magically give you more PCIe bandwidth - if you have two cards saturating their lanes, each will be left with what they would've had in the first place, and probably with a bit of extra overhead loss from the PLX.

    In reality though, you won't get a noticeable drop in gaming performance until you go down to something like 4x PCIe 2.0 (even less in most games). PCIe 3.0 might be good for bragging rights, but there's no realistic reason to factor it into a buying decision for a gaming system.

    http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/I...caling/23.html
    Anandtech did a good review of plx mobo for haswell. http://anandtech.com/show/6170/four-...cs-and-evga/26
    AMD CPUs behaved differently to NVidia with single AMD GPU configurations taking a 3-7% hit on fps versus non plx. Nvidia single 580 was "indifferent". For both AMD and NVidia multi GPU got a boost with plx though it varied depending on how it was implemented by the manufacturers. power consumption takes a hit, as does price as plx chips are $40+

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    Re: News - AMD FX processors won’t get Steamroller cores in 2014

    There seems to be a couple of recurring bits of confusion here.

    1/ Chipset has nothing to do with memory support any more. A DDR4 supporting FX CPU could happily use the existing chipset.

    2/ To do an MCM of two CPUs you need a way of tying them together. The Pentium 4 used the front side bus which was designed to easily make 2 socket motherboards. Opterons use HyperTransport as that is what it is designed for. All an FM2 part has is PCIe, which people have used for an inter CPU network but you can't do NUMA over it AFAIK, it requires additional electronics to switch the PCIe, and latency sucks.

    The only thing that would worry me about FM2+ being the way forward is the 100W limit on those motherboards.

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