News - Microsoft discontinues then resumes Windows 7 retail sales

[kingpotnoodle]

I'd stake a large amount of money on the uptick in Win 7 adoption not being due to consumer Start Screen refuseniks, but to businesses completing their Win7 rollouts prior to the end of XP support.

I'll join you on that, people all too often forget that big business is always way behind the curve. It often takes them a few years to even plan the migration nevermind actually doing it.

As an old dog that can learn new tricks I like Windows 8 and 8.1. I never actually liked the start menu - it's a fiddly annoying muddle of a mess that was only saved by the addition of the search box. The start screen, improved search etc are a vast improvement IMHO and having spent a few minutes to organise my start screen and learn the keyboard shortcuts and tricks I now find it quicker to access apps than Windows 7-.

I never use MUI apps, but I would like to see them introduce the feature of having them in a window on the desktop, ModernMix is quite unstable so it would be good to see it done properly.

[cjs150]

I will upgrade to w8.1 (via download) if but only if:

1. MS does not assume that I am American because I use English and set the keyboard default to American
2. They do not reset the screen wallpaper for both Desktop and metro screens
3. They do not randomnly change the metro tile colours (mostly on my other machine to a horrible day glo orange) or provide tools to allow me to reset the tile colours (and maybe add transparency to the background colour for the tiles)

[aidanjt]

I'll join you on that, people all too often forget that big business is always way behind the curve. It often takes them a few years to even plan the migration nevermind actually doing it.

Lets not delude ourselves here. Big business IT is never going even to touch Windows 8 with a 10 foot barge pole. They ignored Vista and it was way less of a support nightmare.

[kingpotnoodle]

Lets not delude ourselves here. Big business IT is never going even to touch Windows 8 with a 10 foot barge pole. They ignored Vista and it was way less of a support nightmare.

I think that has far more to do with timing of upgrade cycles and actual need rather than some opinion-based hate-rambling on internet forums. Most businesses held out for Windows 7, then planned and started their migrations and given that was < 4 years ago the hardware is probably not due for refresh yet and Windows 7 (unlike XP) has nothing major wrong with it and isn't that old, so if it ain't broke... Basically it's more a passive rejection of "no need to, everything is working just fine as it is" than it is an active rejection of "we can't in any universe ever because it won't work". Changing OS in a large company is a long expensive project, it won't be done without a compelling reason... Microsoft's biggest competition as always is their previous versions.

There isn't actually a solid technical reason (i.e. not a reason based on personal opinion of interfaces) why Windows 8 cannot work in a business environment, the start screen still launches things, the desktop behaves just like a Windows 7 desktop and nothing major was removed under the hood. The store can be disabled by group policy and all the usual applications work in desktop mode as normal.

I know it works, I use Windows 8.1 at work, on a standard HP desktop, with 3 non-touch screens, no multi-finger touchpad (just a plain keyboard and mouse), on the domain and with no changes to group policies that are also applied to the 7 users. It doesn't slow me down or damage productivity in the slightest, in fact it has great benefits with the multi-screen enhancements for the desktop.

[aidanjt]

Timing has nothing to do with it at all. The deployment of a release is predicated on IT management signing off on it, and they're not going to sign off on it when all their IT guys are telling them that they'll be inundated with support problems from clueless users who can't figure out how to start programmes much less shut down their computer. Because no matter how dumb you think the average computer user is, 70% of corporate users are even dumber. Hell, most corporates have to retrain their users with the XP->7 transition, and that was a trivial adjustment people have to make. Retraining them for 8 would require *much* *much* more training because the entire paradigm and the contexts involved is vastly different.

[kingpotnoodle]

Timing has nothing to do with it at all. The deployment of a release is predicated on IT management signing off on it, and they're not going to sign off on it when all their IT guys are telling them that they'll be inundated with support problems from clueless users who can't figure out how to start programmes much less shut down their computer. Because no matter how dumb you think the average computer user is, 70% of corporate users are even dumber. Hell, most corporates have to retrain their users with the XP->7 transition, and that was a trivial adjustment people have to make. Retraining them for 8 would require *much* *much* more training because the entire paradigm and the contexts involved is vastly different.

I work in semi-corporate IT so I don't need a lecture on user daftness... Windows XP --> 7 wasn't "trivial" for the average computer user that's why they needed retraining. Might have been trivial for some IT professionals but then I didn't find the transition to Windows 8.x worse than trivial, for me it was very easy to get used to.

My opinion of Windows 8 is very positive but I still have no plan (or desire to make a plan) to update everyone around me to Windows 8, I'm not going far enough along the road to assess user training needs nevermind attempt to gain sign-off on a budget and rollout. The suggestion falls at the first hurdle where I ask "Is it needed?" and the solid answer is "Hell no!". Windows 7 is doing everything the users need it to do, their hardware is recent and everyone is happy so the very small benefits of an OS upgrade are not even worth the effort of a reinstall (so thinking about it stops right there), never mind the monetary cost, licensing issues or any training time on top.

Whatever you like to think about internet hate-noise affecting "big IT" policy it's really far more simple, a long and expensive project like an OS upgrade on thousands of PCs has to justify itself by offering something worthy enough in return and Windows 7 --> Windows 8.1 just doesn't, simple, end of. When considering an OS upgrade the first and most important question (before anything you mention is even thought about) is "Do we actually have any reason/need to do it?". Corporate IT is all about stability and necessity rather than excitement and modernity etc, see how they held on to Windows XP year after year, they stuck with it right up to the point where it became necessary because XP was just too outdated and full of security holes etc (a lot of offices are still on XP). At the time of release Vista was sort of needed but but not yet to the point that it overrode the concerns, user training etc you mention (I faced that decision myself and kept people on XP)... Windows 7 was the right OS at the right time, it polished Vista and arrived with the right incentives.

Also don't think for one minute that "all their IT guys are telling them" would necessarily stop an IT manager from initiating a project... It's that manager's job to weigh up and make the decision rather than to follow mob rule... I've been in more than one company where decisions were foisted downwards regardless of the majority opinion of the workforce, for better and worse.

[crossy]

Lets not delude ourselves here. Big business IT is never going even to touch Windows 8 with a 10 foot barge pole. They ignored Vista and it was way less of a support nightmare.

Company I work for (at the moment at least - they are currently doing one of those accountant-lead "workforce management" processes) has already started their Windows 8 rollout ... cautiously.

Same deal as the Windows XP->7 migration, they "beta" it first to a limited group, then release it to a large audience. Problem with the large corporates is that - of course - they've got prove that their app software works correctly with the new OS - and where it doesn't rollout a new (compatible) version BEFORE they start allowing the new system images.

Heck, got a message on my corporate internal VPN (don't ask!) software that "as a user of this software, please do not upgrade to Windows 8 at this time" with a link to a knowledgebase article about issues that the testers have found.

Personally, I'm more than happy with that approach. Especially as issues with some minor piece of code I had to use meant that I had to go XP->7, missing out Vista. Which, given the feedback I got from colleagues who DID do the "upgrade", was a blessing.

[kingpotnoodle]

Same deal as the Windows XP->7 migration, they "beta" it first to a limited group, then release it to a large audience. Problem with the large corporates is that - of course - they've got prove that their app software works correctly with the new OS - and where it doesn't rollout a new (compatible) version BEFORE they start allowing the new system images.

That sounds pretty standard, good approach especially if you can get some of the calmer and more cooperative users to beta test, really helps with smoothing the image to load to deployment servers.

Just out of interest what VPN software is it that's not compatible?

[crossy]

That sounds pretty standard, good approach especially if you can get some of the calmer and more cooperative users to beta test, really helps with smoothing the image to load to deployment servers.

Just out of interest what VPN software is it that's not compatible?

It's a secured-connection app that seems to have been written by Juniper Networks - so me describing it as "VPN" is perhaps incorrect, (apologies). Problems claimed (I read the message more closely this morning) are not that it's incompatible per se, but that there's been "intermittent stability issues" on Windows 8 that means that corporate IT doesn't recommend it's use "at this time".

[Brewster0101]

Windows 7 ain't broken - does everything well....

Why upgrade to 8 is the simple question that Microsoft has no answer for.

[User110]

I'm unusually used to Windows 8 but not Windows 8.1!