News - Windows 8.2 ‘Threshold’ to bring Start Menu back?

[tribaljet]

Is it just me or is MS planning on limit group policy management to Enterprise editions alone? That is something that won't be welcome.

[Saracen]

Saracen +1

Coffee analogy is good. It also explains why MS are rowing back. For PCs too many people are not upgrading - they do not want straws and chicory.

I am not saying that w8 is a bad OS, I like it but only for certain uses and terrific on tablets. I would not use it for my work computer though

Indeed. I'm not saying Win8 is bad, either, or that it won't work well on tablets/phones. Just that it isn't ideal for desktops, and doesn't suit me, at all. All they need to do, IMHO, is to put the power to choose in users hands, and for 'user', they need to remember that means customers. We are not captive users and they're the sysadmin deciding what we can and can't do, and dictating how we shall do it. Those days are gone, and we have viable, and free, alternatives. A little bit less corporate arrogance and a little more "customer is always right" would go a long way.

But, just in the unlikely even some senior MS suit is reading this, remember this. Loyalty cuts both ways, and once you damage trust with a customer, it is very hard to get back, and in some cases, you never will. Those machines that I've already migrated to Linux will, now, stay migrated. Permanently. The bullet has been bitten, the work and hassle suffered, and there's no incentive to migrate back for me, whatever they do in forthcoming versions. The only question for me is whether things change at Redmond before I migrate everything else. If they don't, then it's sayonara, MS-san.

[MrNeil]

The only Metro for me is Battlefield 3 Metro

Really this May spurn me into Window's 8 but what if the next windows come's up trumps like Oh dear Vista to Oh Yea Window 7

[Saracen]

The only Metro for me is Battlefield 3 Metro

Really this May spurn me into Window's 8 but what if the next windows come's up trumps like Oh dear Vista to Oh Yea Window 7

For me, once I've gone to the trouble of migrating, and have a solution I'm happy with, any subsequent version of Windows would have to be one hell of an improvement to entice me back. Basically, it'd have to offer something I absolutely have to be able to do, and can't do any other way. I'm not holding my breath on that.

[Firejack]

Windows 8.x needs to stop being Windows 7's awkward little brother and learn to co-operate with the user.

On paper Windows 8.x should be the best yet. But all the faffing about in 8 and now 8.1 has become tiresome.

I hope 8.2 delivers the user experience we all want.

[zdn1042]

I guess you could say Microsoft is starting over again...

[wasabi]

The 'leverage Windows customer base to break into tablet market' strategy has clearly failed. They need to make Windows phone their touch OS, and give regular Windows users the full uncrippled desktop/laptop experience.

[tigertop1]

I would love to have been a fly on the wall at Microsoft's last few Board meetings as they gradually realise that Average Joe Public is a hell of a sight smarter than their top OS designers in knowing what they really want.

[shaithis]

So much crying over a menu. How much time do you spend launching programs as opposed to actually using them?

I also find it funny that people are talking about moving to linux because they don't like the new workflow...yet are prepared for a bigger, harder and more frequently changing workflow experience in linux. Unity - yey!

If I had the choice of 2 TVs, one had an awesome picture and was fast at changing channels and had lots of great features but a poor UI......and the other was technically inferior but had an awesome UI.....I know which one I would buy. I watch TV shows, I don't try my hardest to experience the channel changing UI, you just adapt to it. And if you did buy a new TV and didn't like the UI, would you adapt to it or sell it and buy a different TV based on its interface?

And all the gamers here had better swallow their prides sooner, rather then later. The XBone ports should soon start hitting with DX11.1/11.2 features......and some of those performance increases are large....and that's after enjoying the smaller footprint, better power management, better security and the unquestionably better UI enhancements (new shortcuts etc, not talking about the controversial mui).....hell even the app store has the potential of being an asset to the OS.

I am sure some people do sit at the desktop launching a LOT of apps, there are always extreme cases but I am sure 99%+ of people do not.

[Saracen]

So much crying over a menu. How much time do you spend launching programs as opposed to actually using them?

I also find it funny that people are talking about moving to linux because they don't like the new workflow...yet are prepared for a bigger, harder and more frequently changing workflow experience in linux. Unity - yey!

If I had the choice of 2 TVs, one had an awesome picture and was fast at changing channels and had lots of great features but a poor UI......and the other was technically inferior but had an awesome UI.....I know which one I would buy. I watch TV shows, I don't try my hardest to experience the channel changing UI, you just adapt to it. And if you did buy a new TV and didn't like the UI, would you adapt to it or sell it and buy a different TV based on its interface?

And all the gamers here had better swallow their prides sooner, rather then later. The XBone ports should soon start hitting with DX11.1/11.2 features......and some of those performance increases are large....and that's after enjoying the smaller footprint, better power management, better security and the unquestionably better UI enhancements (new shortcuts etc, not talking about the controversial mui).....hell even the app store has the potential of being an asset to the OS.

I am sure some people do sit at the desktop launching a LOT of apps, there are always extreme cases but I am sure 99%+ of people do not.

Well, I'd put up with a poor TV UI for a great picture, but if I had a TV with a great picture, I sure wouldn't buy another one with a lousy UI, just because test reports benchmarked the picture as better, but that I couldn't tell the difference. And, on a TV, the vast majority of the time, all I do is pick channels. In fact, mostly, not even that, because I record almost everything on external recorders and just watch the recordings.

As forgetting used to Linux, ir it changing, I've been using it for years, on and off, and have no real problems with what's been done to date. Nor, for that matter, with the evolution of UIs in Windows, or Office. As I said in an earlier thread, I actually prefer the controversial ribbon I/f in Office. I find it helps. I have many friends that detest it, though.

But I do wish people wouldn't characterise it as "crying", or "hating".

I've pointed out repeatedly that if MS want to keep to this line, fair enough. If that's what they think is best for Windows, great, go to it. But .... I'm not doing it. And I'm not by any means alone.

Some of my machines are still, as I've said many times, still on XP. Why? Because it works for me, and there is no need to change. And very considerable aggravation in doing so. Some are general purpose machines, running Win 7. Right now, they can stay on Win7. I'm certainly not paying to move them to Win8. But some need to stay reasonably current. Given a choice, that would be Windows, but if MUI is the price I have to pay, on top of buying Windows, then I'll move them, or have already moved them, to Linux because I have no trouble with transitioning to that, but I don't like MUI one little bit. Oh, and Linux, and office suite, are free while Windows, and Office, are not.

We are not at the point yet, but IF MS continue down the line of MUI, whether users want it or not, then they continue without me. And that's been the tone of their comments, at least until this point, with Threshold .... that they were doing everything to move to MUI, and eliminate the old desktop model entirely. THAT is what I will not, under any circumstances, do. Between that, and Linux, I'll put up with any future I/f changes on Linux, or simply stick with what I have at that point.

None of this is what's patronising dismissed as crying. It is simply pointing out that MS cannot dictate my computing environment, and expect me to keep paying for it, when it decides for it's strategic reasons to make my computing experience miserable. It is simply stating, as part of a discussion, that IF MS insist on going that route, they go without me.

If you get on a train heading for Edinburgh, and part way, the train company decide to turn the heating off and go to Cardiff instead, and Edinburgh is where you want to go, do you stay put and go to Cardiff, or get off and find a warm train going to where you want to go?

It's not crying. It's merely point blank refusal to put up with MS dictats when, first, I don't like those dictats, and second, don't have to put up with it. For those that like MUI, fine, have fun. For those that don't care either way, or have grown comfortable with it, fair enough. But for those, like me, that will not go MUI, well, first, there are alternate routes to go, and second, why should we not say so?

MS has certainly had plenty of opportunity to feel the backlash, and assess how large it is, or isn't. They've seen sales trends, and had the opportunity to analyse why they think they are what they are, and they can either change tack and tone, or not. I really don't much care either way.

I'm, personally, a bit angry at what they did, and how they did it, but in a way, they've done me a favour. They finally forced me to get on my lazy chuff and do what I should have done ages ago, which is move those systems that can easily be moved into the Linux world instead of just dabbling with it as a hobby, instead of taking the easy route and keep giving MS money for OS and Office upgrades, just because it was easy.

I suppose I should be grateful to MUI. It's been a wonderful motivator .... to get me to shift to Linux.

[kingpotnoodle]

Is it just me or is MS planning on limit group policy management to Enterprise editions alone? That is something that won't be welcome.

That would sadden me, I like group policy at home and I can't see me going to volume licensing for my Windows PCs!

I doubt it though because most business PCs ship with Pro installed and a Pro sticker on the case, not all companies buy (or would want to buy) VL and blank hardware - many SMEs get Windows pre-installed by HP or Dell, especially on laptops.

[crossy]

Windows 8.x needs to stop being Windows 7's awkward little brother and learn to co-operate with the user.

Best comment I saw was that the 7 v's 8 relationship is akin to Rain Man - problem is that 8 series OS's are the Dustin Hoffman character. Definitely brighter, sure, but hard to get along with.

I'd really like to see Microsoft deliver some real change that I can appreciate - like, for example, merging the MUI and "classic" desktops like I mentioned earlier.

“There are two kinds of fools. One says, "This is old, and therefore good." And one says, " This is new, and therefore better.”
(from "Shockwave Rider")

At the moment, Windows 8 is in the "new fool" category for me. On the other hand I regard folks who stick to XP when 7's there in the "old fool" category mostly, (exclusions being those folks who are forced by app issues to stick with the older OS).

[crossy]

So much crying over a menu. How much time do you spend launching programs as opposed to actually using them?

I also find it funny that people are talking about moving to linux because they don't like the new workflow...yet are prepared for a bigger, harder and more frequently changing workflow experience in linux. Unity - yey!

Sorry, that's a stupid statement, and one unfortunately frequently made by Windows fan boys (of which I am NOT accusing you of being btw). Unity - in it's early versions - sucked so badly that it was funny - true. Unfortunately, it's actually quite usable in the later releases. Okay, so you don't like Unity? Fine, don't use it - if you prefer KDE, Gnome, Cinnamon, Mate, LXDF, etc, etc, ad nauseum, then just use the Software Center to install that other and set as default (easily done - point 'n' click operation). End of problem.

Now I'm not saying for a microsecond that Windows should, or even could for that matter, offer that kind of flexibility. Windows is, and probably always will be, a tangled mess of interdependencies. So that UI flexibility is down to the way Linux has "congealed".

What Saracen, and others, were/are looking for those was a Windows 7.5 I guess - all the under-the-hood feature upgrades of 8, but without that very contentious UI change. And note, that in some cases, their objections are not "I don't like it", but "I can no longer do what I need to". To take your TV analogy, Windows 8 is a TV that has special connectors so it can only work if connected to a Sky+ box. Not so good if you want to watch a DVD or use Virgin's service.

I continue to see three classes of Windows 8 users:
1. Folk who "get" what MS were up to and like it;
2. People who grudgingly put up with it, liking one or two of the new features;
3. Folks who hate it, and whine constantly about how god-damned shoddy it all is;

If I move my desktop to Windows 8 then I think I'll be in group 2 if, and only if, that multi window capability comes to pass, (so I've now moved passed the "how to launch" objections to the "how to use my apps" ones). Otherwise mark me down as a group 3. Although, at the moment I've no firm plans to move any of the Windows PC's to it - the boxes that DO have it, were delivered like that.

[Saracen]

....

On the other hand I regard folks who stick to XP when 7's there in the "old fool" category mostly, (exclusions being those folks who are forced by app issues to stick with the older OS).

Or driver problems for ouf-of-date hardware.

Or, I would hope, where cost-benefit shows cost outweighs benefit.

Some of my machines are on XP because :-

- they are doing what I need of them perfectly happily
- the hardware would struggle with 7, or refuse to run it at all.

For instance, an XP1800 with 256Mb RAM. It runs XP happily, does a specific job running, intermittently, particular software and hardware. And it's not net-connected. So, why upgrade that one, even to 7, let alone 8?

[Saracen]

....

What Saracen, and others, were/are looking for those was a Windows 7.5 I guess - all the under-the-hood feature upgrades of 8, but without that very contentious UI change. And note, that in some cases, their objections are not "I don't like it", but "I can no longer do what I need to". ....

Well, yes, pretty much. It's not quite "without" the UI change that I want, though, but the option to turn it off if I don't want it. If I can install a third party tool or two and, effectively, get MUI out of my face and get Win8 working more or less as Windows 7 always has, then MS could have offered that option themselves, either at install time, or better yet, as a system setting.

That's all I ever really wanted - the ability to continue using Windows more or less how I was with 7, without having to put up with an expectation that I rethink how I do things to suit MS plans to combat dismal performance against Apple/Android in future-looking tablet/mobile markets.

I can (and do, currently) use those third-party tools, but the tone of the mood music from MS was that they want everyone moving to the MUI paradigm, and to relegate, then remove, the old desktop model altogether. More recently, the tone from MS seems to be more conciliatory, perhaps due to the extent and vehemence of the backlash.

I don't know that I trust the sincerity of their apparent Damascene conversion, though. The return of the start button destroyed that, it being such a cynical PR stunt.

The truth is I've basically lost any faith I had in MS. Some of the design decisions with XBox One, for instance, led to to rule that out, permanently, even though for now they seem to have backed off.

Office 365 is another bone of contention. Personally, I am NOT renting software, or getting it on subscription. That applies to Adobe, and I've been using Photoshop since PS3 (not CS3). I ysed Picture Publisher before that, and I can and will go to something else now. But a subscription model? Hell will freeze over first. I know it suits some people, and fine, let them do it. But I never will, under any circumstances.

And I see Office 365 as a first step on that same road.

So it's not even just Win8 MUI that's ruffled my feathers. It's the apparent change in management ethos, and the overt arrogance (or ignorance, whichever it is) in a series of decisions and, most significantly, what I suspect that bodes for the future.

Until relatively recently, I would not have given credence to the notion of me going effectively to an MS-free zone. But now, sadly, except for those legacy machines, the writing on the wall makes being an MS-free zone look increasingly appealling,

[stanonwheels]

That's good. I love 7, but I wouldn't say no to an upgrade if 8.2 is better, which I hope it is.