News - ASUS motherboards to boast full SATA Express performance

[Corky34]

You don't know what an FPGA is then, it's a functionally different type of chip than either an ASIC or a conventional microprocessor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fpga

An ARM chip is a conventional microprocessor, not an FPGA, not by any stretch of the imagination. I've worked with and designed systems around ARM microcontrollers, and FPGAs, so I think I should know the difference,

Yes i know what a FPGA is, but you don't seem to realise they are all doing the same job no matter what name you give them.
Call it native and claim there is no abstraction layer all you like, but it doesn't change the fact that an IC is being used along with an abstraction layer so its not as you claim native.

How exactly is it marketing BS by calling an native PCIe NAND controller, a native PCIe NAND controller?

Because it's not native, its just a PCIe NAND controller exactly the same as any other IC.
Should we call SATAe and M.2 native PCIe NAND controllers ?

In my 'differences to SATA' quote, I was referring to the differences in implementation

Who is it moving the goal posts now.

Seriously how is a drive that talks directly with PCIe not a native PCIe drive?
Sure the term 'native' can have some ambiguity, but most of the market seem to have agreed upon roughly what it means, which is apparently not like the definition you've puled from somewhere. By your definition, no HDDs/SSDs can be 'native' SATA, IDE, SCSI, SAS, as they all interface with the system via a storage controller.

And how many times have you seen HDDs/SSDs sold as native' SATA, IDE, SCSI, SAS ?
The only one that seem to have agreed what the term native means is you, the rest of the market states that the "native" adjective refers to software or data formats supported by a certain system with minimal computational overhead and additional components. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_%28computing%29

Sorry but you're talking total and utter rubbish, have derailed the thread, and have been reported for trolling.

Takes one to know one, i will do what its best to do with trolls such as your self and ignore you from now on.

[watercooled]

See you just cannot accept that you were quite conclusively WRONG in your first posts. I tried to point that out in general discussion, but your refusal to do your own research has led to you digging yourself deeper and deeper into a hole, and you're now just trying to pick fault with any random and irrelevant bits of my posts.

There just aren't enough facepalms. Of course an IC is being used, it's a native PCIe NAND controller. Why is that so damned hard to understand? I really can't think of any other way to put it. That's even what Anand Shimpi calls it, it's not just marketers: http://www.anandtech.com/show/7669/k...arked-and-more

How am I moving goalposts when I'm simply clarifying what I meant due to you deliberately misinterpreting everything I write like a classic troll.

Yes, SATAe and M.2 use native PCIe controllers - I think you'll find they use the same exact ICs used on PCIe drives. M.2 and SATAe are simply different physical interfaces that allow you to communicate electrically on the PCIe or SATA busses. They are not unique standards electrically.

Thank you for providing a link to a definition summing up EXACTLY what I mean.

minimal computational overhead and additional components.

I'd call PCIe>controller>NAND pretty minimal, wouldn't you? As I also said earlier, you can't cram flash media (NAND) onto an IO bus in the same way you can't connect a HDD's voice coil and spindle motor to an IO bus. You're talking silly. In this regard, 'native' is used to distinguish these drives from the older models with SATA used in between PCIe and the NAND, as I keep repeating. I don't think anyone would have a problem with you calling SATA drives 'native', but it's simply redundant there.

However, I have seen it used in the context of external drives. For example there are some native USB drives on the market - rather than needing a separate SATA-USB bridge in the enclosure, the drive itself talks USB.

Feel free to avoid any and all threads I participate in, I'd be very grateful. But I don't know how much you'll enjoy a forum home to a good amount of very knowledgeable people if you insist on making such pathetic and nonsensical arguments, then carrying on with straw-man arguments when you know your original point has been clearly proven wrong...

I genuinely think this is the first time I've had to report someone for something involving myself. I've had plenty of heated debates on this forum, but the other side generally at least has an argument to make or we're talking about something which is subjective and/or actually debatable.

[watercooled]

Who is it moving the goal posts now.

I'll give you three guesses.

Yes i did read them, maybe you need to as well.
The 88NV9145 - NATIVE PCIe SSD CONTROLLER uses a field-programmable gate array (FPGA)
The only difference between a FPGA chip and the normal application-specific integrated circuit (ASIC) is that it is configured by a customer or a designer after manufacturing.

It still uses a integrated circuit (a chip, or a microchip) between the NADS and the PCIe.
If you really believe there is no abstraction layer, please do tell everyone how you think the NAND's talk over the PCIe bus all by them selves.

Learn how to read pal:

I.e. it doesn't use an FPGA. Not that it's even remotely important here.

You mean you are being taken in by the marketing BS, it uses an ARM chip that can be configured. It's no different than FPGA or ASIC they are all chips, the only difference is ASIC are designed for specific purposes, and FPGA can be programed by customers or a designer after manufacturing, the ARM chip is the FPGA.

You don't know what an FPGA is then, it's a functionally different type of chip than either an ASIC or a conventional microprocessor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fpga

Yes i know what a FPGA is, but you don't seem to realise they are all doing the same job no matter what name you give them.
Call it native and claim there is no abstraction layer all you like, but it doesn't change the fact that an IC is being used along with an abstraction layer so its not as you claim native.

[mixma0739]

….. and this is how wars are started. Of course, should you be “well placed” like a politiko or some modernday general, you could send the bullet-stoppers/canon-fodders to do the arguing/chess-piecing but in the end, it will always be the mesmerised who will have to endure the differing stances within The Disagreement.

All arguments/disagreements boil down to having a translator/mediator when language is the barrier. As for the devil within the details/disagreement, that is the latency/inefficiency within the translation – the middling ground where Oral Gymnasts/Wigged Strange Bedfellows derive their profit, A Bookie/”trader” being the One who profits/”commissions” from Disagreement.

When you are talking to a wall, the problem then slides from The Wall to you. When you are unable to forgive, The Unforgiven will never suffer from the consequences of your unforgiving unless a war is initiated to bring your consequences to the source of your irritation. All know that. So how come wars are 2 a penny? Because the duty of every principle of Absoluteness or every Concept aborted from Thought is to replicate. As such, the duty of Frustration is to make the other frustrated. Likewise, the duty ofMalevolence is to make the other malevolent. There is zero exception to this rule/principle/concept.

Knowledge is merely a religion when Knowledge is stuck at the desire phase. Viewed from another perspective, without being empowered of Its knowledge, Knowledge is merely a religion sustained by its religiosity/belief-system. Tangibility being Reality, for something that is of materialism, the answer is attainable but when the non-material/spiritual is thrown into that boiling pot, the argument will go on forever. As such, without first becoming real, there is no such thing as reality.

Without being Of White, there is no such thing as Colours other than Jose the local Chemist & Druggist and his addictive collection. Without being Pure, merely desiring Purity is but a Religion & Religiosity that “saviours” and “leaders” revel in. More so when the diagreement is really about the other’s purity, human behaviours not only being non-material but human behaviours always exist as tethered diametrics/polarities/couplings.