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Thread: PC game code stripping is widespread says report

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    Re: PC game code stripping is widespread says report

    Quote Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
    The latter part of that is certainly true. I don't know where the recent expectation of value has come from - possibly linked to the 'people buy games in sales' shocker but in the past, games were more expensive in real terms than they are today still.
    For me at least, games (at least the BASE game) lasted a LOT longer than they do today. Some of the games I have recently purchased have had 3-5 hour campaigns. Others (like BF4) have had multiple expansions at £12 per expansion or so....and that is what makes myself (and a lot of others I presume) re-evaluate the value of a title.
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    Re: PC game code stripping is widespread says report

    Quote Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
    Single global price is hard because purchasing power of different regions varies greatly - a high price has a lower relative affordability barrier in the west than poorer parts for example. Pricing games according to market affordability is in line with how every other product is priced more or less - they are a business after all. But if the market becomes globalised then it's more or less inevitable that we'll end up with a global price - which means a cheaper game for us, and more expensive for asia regions - that means games will end up being tailored more for those regions (who have more numbers after all) and we'll bemoan the lack of traditional (western) PC games.
    That is the same type of thinking that big business has, that the world is divided into different regions when it's not, the purchasing power, affordability and the other types of outdated models may have worked when they dictated the terms of availability.

    Capitalism dictates the parties to a transaction typically determine the prices at which assets, goods, and services are exchanged, the sad thing is big business don't like it when the public uses this same system. If people can get something cheaper they will, if a product isn't available they use a service where it is, that's whats called market forces, it's just that big business don't like the idea that they have lost control of the market.

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    Senior Member kalniel's Avatar
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    Re: PC game code stripping is widespread says report

    Quote Originally Posted by shaithis View Post
    For me at least, games (at least the BASE game) lasted a LOT longer than they do today. Some of the games I have recently purchased have had 3-5 hour campaigns. Others (like BF4) have had multiple expansions at £12 per expansion or so....and that is what makes myself (and a lot of others I presume) re-evaluate the value of a title.
    Yeah, it's the opposite for me - games like Strike Commander, Wing Commander weren't all that long, while I'm nowhere near finished Divinity:Original sin yet I'm coming up to 100hours, Skyrim is double that. Diablo 3 at least double that!


    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    That is the same type of thinking that big business has, that the world is divided into different regions when it's not
    Then how come the living costs are so different, or the wages?

    Capitalism dictates the parties to a transaction typically determine the prices at which assets, goods, and services are exchanged, the sad thing is big business don't like it when the public uses this same system. If people can get something cheaper they will, if a product isn't available they use a service where it is, that's whats called market forces, it's just that big business don't like the idea that they have lost control of the market.
    You're only considering the effect on the rich people (us), not the poorer. That ignores the fact there are regions that can't afford games priced at the global mean, so to support AAA game development you'd be pricing large swathes of people out of the market. That smaller market may then require higher prices again, so you could end up just making the western price the global price.

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    Re: PC game code stripping is widespread says report

    Quote Originally Posted by kalniel View Post

    You're only considering the effect on the rich people (us), not the poorer. That ignores the fact there are regions that can't afford games priced at the global mean, so to support AAA game development you'd be pricing large swathes of people out of the market. That smaller market may then require higher prices again, so you could end up just making the western price the global price.
    Or you make the Asian prices the normal level, which would reduce copyright theft and possibly increase sales - the smaller margins made up by greater sales. It might also improve the image of the gaming industry.
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    Re: PC game code stripping is widespread says report

    Well you see the games companies love capitalism when it benefits them, but when people try to use it for their own gain they hate it. Lets face it if the game is cheaper in China and you can get it not region locked then your going to buy it from China. The people selling these codes are just doing what you would expect from a capitalist society. Because lets face it when you buy a game from a shop or Steam you just buying it from a reseller.

    The games industry needs to learn a lesson here, and not act like children when people find a way to save money. I hate buying new games, mostly because the last 10 games I played only 1 of them was bug free and 2 of them I might get some replay from. When a big game like Skyrim is so bug riddled it becomes impossible to complete then you tend not to want to pay full price games. Recently been playing Dead Rising 3, crashed worse than a drink pensioner, But with digital distribution you cannot return a defective product your stuck paying cash for a game that has had no quality testing. In the end after about 4 hours of searching I found that DR3 need GFX drivers that are 6 months old. I'm like WTF a games company that isn't using new drivers to test games is never getting my money again. They have admitted they screwed up and recommend old driver, and nvidia have admitted there is a problem, but haven't fixed it in their new drivers. So with Clusterfecks, like Dead Rising 3 no wonder the consumer is loosing confidence in the games industry even consoles games are hitting a point where they are released without testing, and tough you have to wait for a patch.

    I remember the days when you would buy a game and it worked, you might get the odd hardware specific glitch, but nothing to game breaking. Now it seems game breaking bugs are to be expected and suck it up because you paid for a defective product, you have to live with it.

    The games industry is probably the only industry where they sell you an unfinished product that hasn't been properly tested and you have no way of getting your money back when you not happy with it. Imagine buying a car and you can only do 30mph in it until they fix and patch the bugs in the engine. You would be taking it back to the dealer and demanding your money back.

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    Re: PC game code stripping is widespread says report

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    Or you make the Asian prices the normal level, which would reduce copyright theft and possibly increase sales - the smaller margins made up by greater sales. It might also improve the image of the gaming industry.
    It's not copyright theft, it's capitalism, basically people can buy the games cheaper in another country so that's what they are doing, because the resellers can buy them cheaper.

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    Re: PC game code stripping is widespread says report

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    Or you make the Asian prices the normal level, which would reduce copyright theft and possibly increase sales - the smaller margins made up by greater sales. It might also improve the image of the gaming industry.
    The study we linked to on here a while back suggested price isn't the reason people pirate, so lowering the price wouldn't have an effect on that. Increasing sales is quite possible though for those who don't play a game at x price but might at y (steam sale effect).

    Would that be enough to offset the losses? No. Otherwise they'd all do it. Many have experimented with it and the conclusion seems to be (evidenced by their ongoing practise of non- bargain prices) that it doesn't work. There are people at the top of their fields working for these companies and they've a responsibility to their shareholders to make returns so ignoring a solution that would be better is not in anyone's interests.

    What does seem to work in the West at least is having a premium initial price for the early adopters, allowing room for 'sales' later on.

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    Re: PC game code stripping is widespread says report

    Quote Originally Posted by gstrange42 View Post
    It's not copyright theft, it's capitalism, basically people can buy the games cheaper in another country so that's what they are doing, because the resellers can buy them cheaper.
    I wasn't implying that selling the codes was copyright theft - that is incidental - but the companies are complaining about a practice they are encouraging by variable pricing - a situation they have created.

    I accept (referring to Kalniel's post) that companies have to maximise the return on investment, but that is failing in the regional pricing model (or else they wouldn't be complaining, so they need to find an equitable solution where code ripping isn't worth it but they boost the ROI. Not easy, which is why they went for the "easy" option which has had the reported outcome.
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    Re: PC game code stripping is widespread says report

    Quote Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
    Then how come the living costs are so different, or the wages?
    Because unlike digital media that is controlled or dictated by geographical location, the fact is publishers & copyright holders are trying to make the physical world model fit a digital age world, then they cry when it doesn't work out for them.

    Quote Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
    The study we linked to on here a while back suggested price isn't the reason people pirate, so lowering the price wouldn't have an effect on that. Increasing sales is quite possible though for those who don't play a game at x price but might at y (steam sale effect)
    Yet other studies show the opposite, who to believe ?
    Last edited by Corky34; 22-09-2014 at 06:18 PM.

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    Re: PC game code stripping is widespread says report

    Surely if they don't like it they could implement stronger region locks.

    Might not solve it, ie you could use a Chinese steam account and bounce your internet connect, but more hoops to jump through would stop many.

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    Re: PC game code stripping is widespread says report

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    Or you make the Asian prices the normal level
    With most developers being in the west, this is going to be unsustainable. The cost of living is much higher, and I highly doubt that any additional sales will make up the difference, given how high games sales currently are anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    which would reduce copyright theft
    Copyright *infringement*

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    and possibly increase sales - the smaller margins made up by greater sales.
    To the extent of making up the difference in income? I'd be very, very surprised.

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    It might also improve the image of the gaming industry.
    But apart from a few publishers, the industry has an excellent image. Games get sold in sales very quickly when it's economic to do so, most games are well priced for the cost:entertainment ratio, developer support is excellent compared to a few years back, tons of new ideas surface thanks to indie developers....
    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    And by trying to force me to like small pants, they've alienated me.

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    Re: PC game code stripping is widespread says report

    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    Because unlike digital media that is controlled or dictated by geographical location, the fact is publishers & copyright holders are trying to make the physical world model fit a digital age world, then they cry when it doesn't work out for them.
    It's *nothing* to do with a physical media model. It's to do with maximising your return as fast as possible, and allowing that to happen in markets where the cost of living is much lower as well. Some income is better than no income.

    I honestly don't think many people in this thread realise how much a modern game costs when you factor in software, staff, work offices and so on...Games are already at a low price for the hours they give, given how many people are involved in their development. They're often high risk investments too, with entire studios shutting after a single failing title.

    Most games are not made by companies like EA who can bankroll franchises forever.

    As for piracy - reducing prices only works to a point. Sure, there are some people who will always be in the next bracket down, that's inevitable, but this mentality of constantly pushing the price through the floor so everyone can access it immediately is crazy. The economics of it just don't work. Titles can take years to make, with hundreds of highly skilled people being involved in them.

    It's all well and good you guys banging on about lowering the price even more, but I've seen first hand how fine the margins can be on titles and how long it takes for them to 'pay back' their investment. I hear the same from friends of mine - after they spent 20 quid in a taxi after emptying their wallet on a night out. There are very few games that are priced unreasonably these days. You even get to keep what you've brought forever.
    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    And by trying to force me to like small pants, they've alienated me.

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    Re: PC game code stripping is widespread says report

    You have a fair point there Agent, I wasn't really thinking of all that but instead that in most cases I wouldn't personally pay the kinds of prices that new releases tend to ask. I'm usually happy enough to wait a few years if necessary for games I may be interested in to be on sale at a much lower price anyway.
    Last edited by Output; 22-09-2014 at 07:05 PM.

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    Re: PC game code stripping is widespread says report

    Quote Originally Posted by Output View Post
    You have a fair point there Agent, I wasn't really thinking of all that but instead that in most cases I wouldn't personally pay the kinds of prices that new releases tend to ask. I'm usually happy enough to wait a few years if necessary for games I may be interested in to be on sale at a much lower price anyway.
    Which is the same as every other product on earth

    There is a certain, very expensive wine I like, but I simply can't afford to buy it on a regular basis. So I buy a cheaper bottle from Tesco that costs next to nothing, but isn't a million miles away from it.

    When you ask people to apply this to games, they seem to lose their head. When it's a physical product, people are more than happy to self bargain. Make it digital and everyone feels entitled to it and will try to justify why they should have it in every way conceivable.

    Games are not cheap to make, nor maintain, and I'm not even going to get started on support. The amount of hours that most people will need to work to enjoy a title isn't huge. Even when I was in a minimum wage retail job as a teenager, I could buy a top game without too much issue from a single days pay. I would have without a doubt, spent more than a days pay out on a weekend.

    You normally don't need to wait years though - most games drop fast these days!
    Last edited by Agent; 22-09-2014 at 07:43 PM. Reason: typo
    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    And by trying to force me to like small pants, they've alienated me.

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    Re: PC game code stripping is widespread says report

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    You normally don't need to wait years though - most games drop fast these days!
    True, but in that particular case I was thinking of games that release later editions with all DLC included, by which time you can usually be sure whether any more DLC is likely to come out for it (and then be included with the rest of the DLC in a subsequent edition) or not.

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    Re: PC game code stripping is widespread says report

    It's the publishers fault for asking high prices for 'downloads' shouldn't they be cheaper since it's digital and not physical copies? so less overheads
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