Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234
Results 49 to 63 of 63

Thread: PC game code stripping is widespread says report

  1. #49
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Newcastle
    Posts
    220
    Thanks
    56
    Thanked
    8 times in 8 posts

    Re: PC game code stripping is widespread says report

    The sites, like simplyCDkeys (I used for BF4) will probably force the price down in the more expensive markets.
    I didn't have the Russian language problem, I know someone who did however.

  2. #50
    HEXUS.social member Agent's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Internet
    Posts
    19,158
    Thanks
    732
    Thanked
    1,604 times in 1,043 posts

    Re: PC game code stripping is widespread says report

    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    If it's nothing to do with physical media model in a digital world then why change prices and release dates
    Because a product has to reflect the cost of living in the area you're selling it in. The cost of many products is vastly different in eastern countries compared to here. The same system applies to digital media - you cost it relative to your audience.
    This is *nothing* to do with the cost of *physical* media. It's economics, not distribution.

    Release dates: Marketing and tie-in deals. That new Mario Brothers game - millions in marketing costs. Those new toys that tie in with the release of the game at McDonalds? In production 6 months ago, ready to fit into the marketing slot they just paid a fortune for.
    The world doesn't work around games, and release dates are often dictated by other factors.

    Random fact: A certain, large digital distribution company (you can figure it out ) I was working with a few years ago told us what dates we couldn't have. The reason? Server overloading / issues when distributing. They also didn't like to release more than one 'big' title on the same day for this, and marketing space within the software reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    fact is publishers think they can get away with say a 30% mark up in some markets and only %10 in others.
    Yes, they can. That's capitalism for you. You can't work in a job and a society that's capitalist in nature, and then complain about the games industry doing the same.

    You're complaining about the system, not games.

    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    When people paying the %30 mark up find out it's cheaper somewhere else they will buy it from the cheapest source, it's simple economics.
    Absolutely.
    The problem is that many of the games you're talking about are developed in the higher income areas (namely, the west). If you then strip that income away when it comes to the sales of the item, you end up with a system that has significantly less money in it and in some cases, it becomes unsustainable. This is *bad* for development.

    Take a mobile game at $2.99.
    In the US, the lowest minimum (non-tipped) wage is in Georgia at $5.15 an hour. That's not even an hour of work to buy it.
    In India, it's "Varied from 118 rupees ($2.18) per day in Bihar to 185 rupees ($3.40) per day in Haryana" (Wikipedia). This means you could work an entire day, and you still would not be able to buy it.

    Now extrapolate those figures to your yearly amounts. Do you still market the game at $2.99 in India?

    No. You reduce to cost to suit the wage there. Income from there is better than no income. This does not mean you're being ripped off, this means that the company can get a higher return from its product and continue development by utilizing multiple territories.

    Do you know what would happen if you dropped the cost to that of India?

    You'd have no game. It wouldn't exist. Not until we can use labour in cheap counties to make games of the same quality, anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    If a wholesaler (developer) charges £10 for something, a shop (publisher) would expect to make some money from selling the product. If one shop charges £15 and another charges £12 who is the customer going to buy the product from ? That is the way capitalism works, market forces dictate the price.
    See above - market forces can only dictate price to the point of it being sustainable, if you want new products. If a company can't make their development cost back (and a profit), the market can't dictate the price, as the product would not longer exist to dictate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    The sad thing is big business hasn't woken upto the fact that the internet and digital media is a single market, they still try to enforce the physical media model that could be split into separate markets into a single market economy.
    My word. This is nothing to do with the physical media model. In fact - post some evidence please. If you're so sure on this, show me evidence that this is related to physical media.

    "Big business"?! Again - What?!
    Steam made an estimated $1 billion in revenues in 2010. One. Billion. Dollars.

    Go and look up the financial data for the older physical publishers, even at their prime (I'll give you a hint - it's pitiful in comparison).

    "Big Business" is big for a reason - they're getting sales

    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    So we are supposed to feel sorry for these people because they are using a business model that no longer works ?
    I'm sorry Corky, but that is absurd.

    The business model is the best it's ever been.
    Games sales have smashed music sales.
    They smashed film sales.
    They were getting close to smashing both combined - I've no idea if they have or not.
    Games are the highest revenue generating area in the entertainment sector.
    PC games sales have been increasing year on year.
    PC game sales have overtaken consoles: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasoneva...keep-fighting/

    And you are claiming this business model no longer works?


    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    If a region/country can't afford to buy media at the "global price" then they simply go without, or face the legal consequences of copyright infringement.
    It's been done. It doesn't work.

    If you don't sell it there legally, someone will sell it illegally. If you sell it legally, then it has to be a at a price point that is suitable for that market.

    This is tried and tested. It's been done for years in many areas of the entertainment industry.

    As for the consequences.....mmmm.....yeah, good luck with that in those regions. The US has been putting a lot of pressure on some countries, but it's had very limited success.

    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    Maybe eventually the regions and countries where they can't afford to pay the "global price" for goods will see the people having a high enough standard of living to be able to afford the "global price"
    In an ideal world, yes. Everyone should have fair lives. But this doesn't really help people trying to sell their games now, does it?


    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    Except it's not take the stock market for instance, or the commodities markets. We don't have price variations based on where the trade is made, market forces dictate the price.
    Eh?
    I was replying (and quoted) the "I'm usually happy enough to wait a few years if necessary for games I may be interested in to be on sale at a much lower price anyway".

    If you can't afford a product, you wait for it to drop to an affordable point, or you don't buy it. The other options are illegal, of course. I'm not sure what there is to disagree with there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    And by trying to force me to like small pants, they've alienated me.

  3. #51
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    2,952
    Thanks
    400
    Thanked
    366 times in 255 posts

    Re: PC game code stripping is widespread says report

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    Because a product has to reflect the cost of living in the area you're selling it in. The cost of many products is vastly different in eastern countries compared to here. The same system applies to digital media - you cost it relative to your audience.
    This is *nothing* to do with the cost of *physical* media. It's economics, not distribution.
    Funny that because i thought a product had to reflect the costs involved in making it, why bother selling it in a country if you are going to be losing money ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    Release dates: Marketing and tie-in deals. That new Mario Brothers game - millions in marketing costs. Those new toys that tie in with the release of the game at McDonalds? In production 6 months ago, ready to fit into the marketing slot they just paid a fortune for.
    The world doesn't work around games, and release dates are often dictated by other factors.
    In exceptional circumstance, the norm is that there is no tie-in deals, toys being made 6 months before, etc, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    Yes, they can. That's capitalism for you. You can't work in a job and a society that's capitalist in nature, and then complain about the games industry doing the same.
    But it's OK for them to complain about it when the public uses that same system against them ? Or for them to manipulate the market to their advantage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    The problem is that many of the games you're talking about are developed in the higher income areas (namely, the west). If you then strip that income away when it comes to the sales of the item, you end up with a system that has significantly less money in it and in some cases, it becomes unsustainable. This is *bad* for development.
    And that is my problem how ? You don't hear people in markets saying "oh best not buy those cheap ones, because it may become unsustainable, or it's bad for the producer."

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    My word. This is nothing to do with the physical media model. In fact - post some evidence please. If you're so sure on this, show me evidence that this is related to physical media.
    You want evidence for what is a well known fact, that publishers charge different prices based on were they are selling a game, even when that game has no physical media ?


    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    The business model is the best it's ever been.
    Games sales have smashed music sales.
    They smashed film sales.
    They were getting close to smashing both combined - I've no idea if they have or not.
    Games are the highest revenue generating area in the entertainment sector.
    PC games sales have been increasing year on year.
    PC game sales have overtaken consoles: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasoneva...keep-fighting/

    And you are claiming this business model no longer works?
    Those have nothing to do with the business model, those are sales numbers.


    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    It's been done. It doesn't work.

    If you don't sell it there legally, someone will sell it illegally. If you sell it legally, then it has to be a at a price point that is suitable for that market.

    This is tried and tested. It's been done for years in many areas of the entertainment industry.

    As for the consequences.....mmmm.....yeah, good luck with that in those regions. The US has been putting a lot of pressure on some countries, but it's had very limited success.
    So you are saying it's OK to sell your product at a loss to stop people from pirating it ? Except it doesn't stop people pirating it.
    I wish all business had the same view on theft.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    In an ideal world, yes. Everyone should have fair lives. But this doesn't really help people trying to sell their games now, does it?
    And that is my problem how ? We live in a capitalist economy, the strong survive the weak perish.

  4. #52
    Senior Member kalniel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    29,196
    Thanks
    1,520
    Thanked
    2,933 times in 2,376 posts
    • kalniel's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte X58A UD3R rev 2
      • CPU:
      • Intel Xeon X5680
      • Memory:
      • 12gb DDR3 2000
      • Graphics card(s):
      • nVidia GTX 1060 6GB
      • PSU:
      • Seasonic 600W
      • Case:
      • Cooler Master HAF 912
      • Operating System:
      • Win 10 Pro x64
      • Monitor(s):
      • Dell U2311H
      • Internet:
      • O2 8mbps

    Re: PC game code stripping is widespread says report

    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    Funny that because i thought a product had to reflect the costs involved in making it
    According to which law? There's no relation in the slightest for most products - you can buy the same product under a value label as you can under a branded one and pay more for example. See just about anything from Apple or B&O for tech equivalents.

    why bother selling it in a country if you are going to be losing money ?
    All sorts of reasons, from brand awareness, to providing more wordwide buzz or even simply more players in the world that your premium customers can play with for multiplayer. But in this case it's more likely that getting some money is still better than getting no money, provided your costs were first met by other buyers.

  5. #53
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    2,952
    Thanks
    400
    Thanked
    366 times in 255 posts

    Re: PC game code stripping is widespread says report

    Quote Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
    According to which law? There's no relation in the slightest for most products - you can buy the same product under a value label as you can under a branded one and pay more for example. See just about anything from Apple or B&O for tech equivalents.
    So not the same product then. If you are selling product under a "value label" you have changed the product, the actual item may not have changed, but the labeling has, the advertising has, R&D costs, and probably many other things have changed to enable you to offer it at a lower price.

    Quote Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
    All sorts of reasons, from brand awareness, to providing more wordwide buzz or even simply more players in the world that your premium customers can play with for multiplayer. But in this case it's more likely that getting some money is still better than getting no money, provided your costs were first met by other buyers.
    Selling the a product at a higher cost isn't going to mean no sales.
    Subsidising one market with higher cost in another is a broken business model, when the market paying higher prices is able to acquire access to the cheaper market you are forced into a situation where you either have to lower of raise prices. It's exactly what is happening as stated in the article, people are buying more products from the cheaper market.

  6. #54
    Seriously casual gamer KeyboardDemon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    London
    Posts
    3,013
    Thanks
    774
    Thanked
    280 times in 242 posts
    • KeyboardDemon's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus Sabretooth Z77
      • CPU:
      • i7 3770k + Corsair H80 (Refurbed)
      • Memory:
      • 16gb (4x4gb) Corsair Vengence Red (1866mhz) - (Because it looks good in a black mobo)
      • Storage:
      • Crucial M550 SSD 1TB + 2x 500GB Seagate HDDs
      • Graphics card(s):
      • EVGA GTX 980 SC ACX 2.0 (Warranty replacement for 780Ti SC ACX)
      • PSU:
      • EVGA 750 watt SuperNova G2
      • Case:
      • Silverstone RV03
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 Pro 64 Bit
      • Monitor(s):
      • Asus Swift PG278Q
      • Internet:
      • BT Infinity (40mbs dl/10mbs ul)

    Re: PC game code stripping is widespread says report

    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    Selling the a product at a higher cost isn't going to mean no sales.
    Subsidising one market with higher cost in another is a broken business model, when the market paying higher prices is able to acquire access to the cheaper market you are forced into a situation where you either have to lower of raise prices. It's exactly what is happening as stated in the article, people are buying more products from the cheaper market.
    I have started making my own value judgements on games and reviews, I might take it a step further when reviewing games I like on Steam by posting how much I think the game is worth, but if I read a review and decide that a game is worth say £10 then I will wait to find it at £10 or not buy it at all. If I saw it for £12 I might decide to pay the extra but I wouldn't stretch to £15 even if the original was £39.99. If more of us made decisions on that basis then publishers would be forced to look at their business models or they will start to lose money.

    If I can't find the game I want at the price I want to pay in the usual channels then I will look at those cheaper markets and buy from them. I think the only pre-orders I will get from now will be those that I have acquired through free offers or giveaway promotions, seeing as I have about 4 or 5 pre-order titles that have gone well beyond release and I have still yet to play them.

  7. #55
    HEXUS.social member Agent's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Internet
    Posts
    19,158
    Thanks
    732
    Thanked
    1,604 times in 1,043 posts

    Re: PC game code stripping is widespread says report

    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    Funny that because i thought a product had to reflect the costs involved in making it
    Since when?
    The markup on certain products in the tech industry is sky high. For example, look at the BOM cost of the iPhone with the most flash memory and compare it to its sale price.

    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    why bother selling it in a country if you are going to be losing money ?
    Two things:
    I've already covered that point more than once now - some money is better than no money. Brand awareness. Capturing that market segment. Marketing deals locally.
    Angry Birds was free - how much in merchandise was made worldwide? About 30% of Rovios income in 2012, although you can find higher figures the year after: http://venturebeat.com/2012/05/07/an...nt-of-revenue/

    You're not losing money. Distributing a game digitally is easy, as long as you have the legalities in place. It's effectively 'free' money once you minus the costs. Most game business models from games developed in the west, only really target the west and certain, limited eastern counties.
    Take COD for example: http://www.polygon.com/2014/6/18/582...y-online-china

    One of the biggest games in the west, yet is very difficult to sell in China. As a result, you don't factor in the sales from China in your marketing forecasts as they will be so low, it's pointless.
    Just think about that for a second. A population of ~1.3 Billion and you can't factor in sales from there as the culture is so different.

    This concept applies to a *huge* amount of western made games. As a result, the only sensible thing you can do to keep brand identity, merchandise sales, and gain *some* income is to release it legally there at a suitable price point.
    If you don't, the people that want it will obtain it illegally.



    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    In exceptional circumstance, the norm is that there is no tie-in deals, toys being made 6 months before, etc, etc.
    Yet you're totally ignoring marketing, which is one of the biggest reasons for different release dates. Also, different release dates are rarely on smaller titles, only some (and even then, limited) triple A titles.

    And what about localisation? Translation and QA for each region is expensive.

    Validation? Different regions have different legal issues. PEGI certification vs local version for example.


    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    But it's OK for them to complain about it when the public uses that same system against them ? Or for them to manipulate the market to their advantage.
    Of course they can complain, in the same way you are. However, you're justification is mostly that you want it cheaper - fair enough. Their justification is that things like this *really* hurt development.



    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    And that is my problem how ?
    You like games right? The ones that you'll buy on the cheap from regions that will barely make a return for the company?
    You'd like to keep playing those games, right?

    Then understand the development costs, cycles and why price differentiation happens. At the moment you're staying largely ignorant to it and trying to argue a single point: You want it cheaper, so screw all of the other factors.
    That's all well and good, but if the quality of these games was to start dropping as a result, you'd then complain about that.
    If everything became F2P and you paid by the level / weapon, you'd complain about that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    You don't hear people in markets saying "oh best not buy those cheap ones, because it may become unsustainable, or it's bad for the producer."
    Ermm, yes you do. Quite often.
    Take the fishing industry - over the last decade the sales of sustainable fish has rocketed. Supermarkets, shops and restaurants make a big deal of it, and for good reason.

    Games are a finite commodity. Just because the distribution is mostly digital, it doesn't change the huge underlying costs of them. If you stip income away, then they can become unsustainable.


    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    You want evidence for what is a well known fact, that publishers charge different prices based on were they are selling a game, even when that game has no physical media ?
    No - you've claimed that the price difference is because of the physical media model, when it's not.

    they still try to enforce the physical media model that could be split into separate markets into a single market economy.
    The separation of market segments is covered several times in my posts now, but you just seem to be ignoring it and keep going on about this 'physical media model' being the reason.

    Ironically, the costs of distributing the physical media is tiny, so I'm not even sure how you're trying to link the two here. You simply do not seem to understand how games are distributed and sold.

    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    Those have nothing to do with the business model, those are sales numbers.
    Right. And you do realise that sales are the key economic driving force behind almost every business model? Certainly any within the games industry.

    If the business model is failing, like you're claiming, sales would not be on the rise. Constantly. For the last goodness knows how many years. They would be dropping.

    In fact, this is another claim by you which simply isn't backed up by sales, industry movement, or any article I can find. Could you explain how this model is failing exactly? With figures to back it up. At the moment you're just claiming the model is bad, with not a single thing to back it up.


    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    So you are saying it's OK to sell your product at a loss to stop people from pirating it ?
    You're not selling at a loss, if the sales from those people are not included in economic forecasts - which is what happens!

    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    Except it doesn't stop people pirating it.
    And I never claimed it did. Offering the product for sale though will certainly help reduce piracy and can *only* help sales.

    You can never stop piracy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    I wish all business had the same view on theft.
    Apart from it's not theft. It's copyright infringement.


    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    And that is my problem how ? We live in a capitalist economy, the strong survive the weak perish.
    Like the games industry segmenting different markets to stay strong?

    That to one side, it's a cold view to have. Where do you draw the line? What about the real people at the end of those jobs that might perish?
    Your idea clearly doesn't work as nothing could have subsidies. If our society was a pure capitalist one, where the weak always perished, we would be a lot worse off.
    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    And by trying to force me to like small pants, they've alienated me.

  8. #56
    Senior Member kalniel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    29,196
    Thanks
    1,520
    Thanked
    2,933 times in 2,376 posts
    • kalniel's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte X58A UD3R rev 2
      • CPU:
      • Intel Xeon X5680
      • Memory:
      • 12gb DDR3 2000
      • Graphics card(s):
      • nVidia GTX 1060 6GB
      • PSU:
      • Seasonic 600W
      • Case:
      • Cooler Master HAF 912
      • Operating System:
      • Win 10 Pro x64
      • Monitor(s):
      • Dell U2311H
      • Internet:
      • O2 8mbps

    Re: PC game code stripping is widespread says report

    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    So not the same product then. If you are selling product under a "value label" you have changed the product, the actual item may not have changed, but the labeling has, the advertising has, R&D costs, and probably many other things have changed to enable you to offer it at a lower price.
    So you're saying the margin is the same and only the costs differ? That's really not the case.

  9. #57
    HEXUS.social member Agent's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Internet
    Posts
    19,158
    Thanks
    732
    Thanked
    1,604 times in 1,043 posts

    Re: PC game code stripping is widespread says report

    Quote Originally Posted by KeyboardDemon View Post
    I have started making my own value judgements on games and reviews, I might take it a step further when reviewing games I like on Steam by posting how much I think the game is worth, but if I read a review and decide that a game is worth say £10 then I will wait to find it at £10 or not buy it at all. If I saw it for £12 I might decide to pay the extra but I wouldn't stretch to £15 even if the original was £39.99. If more of us made decisions on that basis then publishers would be forced to look at their business models or they will start to lose money.
    Most people do make decisions on what they can afford. After all, if they couldn't afford it, they wouldn't buy it and sales wouldn't be so high. Their price point is just higher than yours.

    Why do you think publishers would look at their business model when sales are through the roof? The current one of slowly decreasing cost / sales is working well and games are very fairly priced.
    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    And by trying to force me to like small pants, they've alienated me.

  10. #58
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    2,952
    Thanks
    400
    Thanked
    366 times in 255 posts

    Re: PC game code stripping is widespread says report

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    The markup on certain products in the tech industry is sky high. For example, look at the BOM cost of the iPhone with the most flash memory and compare it to its sale price.
    Tell you what, go to some investors and tell them you have this great new product that you are going to sell for less than it costs you to make, and then watch as they wet themselves laughing.
    What you consider a high markup doesn't take into account R&D, marketing, testing, etc, etc.
    Sure a company can charge more than the bottom line if they have a captive market and people are willing to pay, but to start selling products to one market but not another for less than it costs to make them is a fast road to bankruptcy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    I've already covered that point more than once now - some money is better than no money. Brand awareness. Capturing that market segment. Marketing deals locally.
    Yet you've still failed to address why the reverse doesn't apply, if some money is better then no money why not sell it for a higher price. Sell less copies with a higher likelihood of copyright infringement that you can actively do something about ? Why not raise brand awareness with advertising. It seems to me you are basically saying because people can't afford, or are not buying our product we should sell it at a loss, something most sane people and investors would laugh at.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    You're not losing money. Distributing a game digitally is easy, as long as you have the legalities in place. It's effectively 'free' money once you minus the costs. Most game business models from games developed in the west, only really target the west and certain, limited eastern counties.
    Take COD for example: http://www.polygon.com/2014/6/18/582...y-online-china

    One of the biggest games in the west, yet is very difficult to sell in China. As a result, you don't factor in the sales from China in your marketing forecasts as they will be so low, it's pointless.
    Just think about that for a second. A population of ~1.3 Billion and you can't factor in sales from there as the culture is so different.

    This concept applies to a *huge* amount of western made games. As a result, the only sensible thing you can do to keep brand identity, merchandise sales, and gain *some* income is to release it legally there at a suitable price point.
    At the moment you are not losing money because you are clinging to a broken business model and are trying any method you can to keep doing it.
    You are using one market to subsides another and then crying foul when people use your bad business model against you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    Yet you're totally ignoring marketing, which is one of the biggest reasons for different release dates. Also, different release dates are rarely on smaller titles, only some (and even then, limited) triple A titles.

    And what about localisation? Translation and QA for each region is expensive.

    Validation? Different regions have different legal issues. PEGI certification vs local version for example.
    So marketing can only be done in one region at a time ?
    Translations and localisation are normally done long before a game ships.
    Validation is normally done on mass before a game ships so they know if they have to make changes to the core game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    Of course they can complain, in the same way you are. However, you're justification is mostly that you want it cheaper - fair enough. Their justification is that things like this *really* hurt development.
    There is no complaining or justifications coming from me, i am merely pointing out how trying to force a physical world business model into a digital world doesn't work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    You like games right? The ones that you'll buy on the cheap from regions that will barely make a return for the company?
    You'd like to keep playing those games, right?

    Then understand the development costs, cycles and why price differentiation happens. At the moment you're staying largely ignorant to it and trying to argue a single point: You want it cheaper, so screw all of the other factors.
    That's all well and good, but if the quality of these games was to start dropping as a result, you'd then complain about that.
    If everything became F2P and you paid by the level / weapon, you'd complain about that.
    Sorry but when did i say i want it cheaper ? IIRC i have just pointed out that the business model being used is broken, if people take advantage of this broken business model to their own advantage the only people to blame are the people enforcing that business model.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    Ermm, yes you do. Quite often.
    Take the fishing industry - over the last decade the sales of sustainable fish has rocketed. Supermarkets, shops and restaurants make a big deal of it, and for good reason.

    Games are a finite commodity. Just because the distribution is mostly digital, it doesn't change the huge underlying costs of them. If you stip income away, then they can become unsustainable.
    So games are like fish now ? One resource can be exhausted, but we aren't going to wake up one morning to find there are no more games to catch, there was a time and there still are developers that don't require millions to make a game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    No - you've claimed that the price difference is because of the physical media model, when it's not.
    So they are not trying to segment their market so they can charge different prices then ? Like how their market were naturally segmented in the days before digital media.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    The separation of market segments is covered several times in my posts now, but you just seem to be ignoring it and keep going on about this 'physical media model' being the reason.

    Ironically, the costs of distributing the physical media is tiny, so I'm not even sure how you're trying to link the two here. You simply do not seem to understand how games are distributed and sold.
    True but you have still failed to convince me, much in the same way as you have failed to address any of the point i have raised.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    Right. And you do realise that sales are the key economic driving force behind almost every business model? Certainly any within the games industry.

    If the business model is failing, like you're claiming, sales would not be on the rise. Constantly. For the last goodness knows how many years. They would be dropping.

    In fact, this is another claim by you which simply isn't backed up by sales, industry movement, or any article I can find. Could you explain how this model is failing exactly? With figures to back it up. At the moment you're just claiming the model is bad, with not a single thing to back it up.
    Sales mean nothing, i could sell a single product for a million pounds that cost me a fiver.
    Or using your model sell a million products for a pound that cost me a fiver to make, I'll let you decide what my investors would be most happy about.
    If you want a fact to backup my claim that it's a bad business model you just need to re-read the article, people are buying game codes from regions where the game is cheaper.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    You're not selling at a loss, if the sales from those people are not included in economic forecasts - which is what happens!
    But you are using one market to subsidies another, so you are artificially lowering your price in markets that there is a higher likelihood of piracy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    And I never claimed it did. Offering the product for sale though will certainly help reduce piracy and can *only* help sales.
    But you did say high prices cause more people to pirate. If you can't stop it why bother if higher prices cause more of it, after all the reverse is also true lower prices cause less.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    Apart from it's not theft. It's copyright infringement.
    Semantics, maybe you should bring that up with the copyright holders who frequently refer to copyright infringement as theft.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    Like the games industry segmenting different markets to stay strong?

    That to one side, it's a cold view to have. Where do you draw the line? What about the real people at the end of those jobs that might perish?
    Your idea clearly doesn't work as nothing could have subsidies. If our society was a pure capitalist one, where the weak always perished, we would be a lot worse off.
    Like the games industry crying foul when their old world business model is failing to work in the new world, so they enforce draconian measures in their attempts to protect the way they want to do business.

    So should we subsidies failing industries, products, and ways of thinking all because they refuse to adapt to a changing world ?
    Last edited by Corky34; 24-09-2014 at 01:26 PM.

  11. #59
    Anthropomorphic Personification shaithis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    The Last Aerie
    Posts
    10,838
    Thanks
    645
    Thanked
    871 times in 735 posts
    • shaithis's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus P8Z77 WS
      • CPU:
      • i7 3770k @ 4.5GHz
      • Memory:
      • 32GB HyperX 1866
      • Storage:
      • Lots!
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Sapphire Fury X
      • PSU:
      • Corsair HX850
      • Case:
      • Corsair 600T (White)
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 x64
      • Monitor(s):
      • 2 x Dell 3007
      • Internet:
      • Zen 80Mb Fibre

    Re: PC game code stripping is widespread says report

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    Why do you think publishers would look at their business model when sales are through the roof? The current one of slowly decreasing cost / sales is working well and games are very fairly priced.
    Many are running in debt, complaining about multiple-millions of unit sales as "not enough" etc. So, I think there is a fair amount of evidence to point to them needing to look at their business model.
    Main PC: Asus Rampage IV Extreme / 3960X@4.5GHz / Antec H1200 Pro / 32GB DDR3-1866 Quad Channel / Sapphire Fury X / Areca 1680 / 850W EVGA SuperNOVA Gold 2 / Corsair 600T / 2x Dell 3007 / 4 x 250GB SSD + 2 x 80GB SSD / 4 x 1TB HDD (RAID 10) / Windows 10 Pro, Yosemite & Ubuntu
    HTPC: AsRock Z77 Pro 4 / 3770K@4.2GHz / 24GB / GTX 1080 / SST-LC20 / Antec TP-550 / Hisense 65k5510 4K TV / HTC Vive / 2 x 240GB SSD + 12TB HDD Space / Race Seat / Logitech G29 / Win 10 Pro
    HTPC2: Asus AM1I-A / 5150 / 4GB / Corsair Force 3 240GB / Silverstone SST-ML05B + ST30SF / Samsung UE60H6200 TV / Windows 10 Pro
    Spare/Loaner: Gigabyte EX58-UD5 / i950 / 12GB / HD7870 / Corsair 300R / Silverpower 700W modular
    NAS 1: HP N40L / 12GB ECC RAM / 2 x 3TB Arrays || NAS 2: Dell PowerEdge T110 II / 24GB ECC RAM / 2 x 3TB Hybrid arrays || Network:Buffalo WZR-1166DHP w/DD-WRT + HP ProCurve 1800-24G
    Laptop: Lenovo Flex 2 / 12GB RAM / 240GB Corsair Force 3 Printer: HP CP1515n || Phone: HTC One U11 || Other: Samsung Galaxy Tab 4 Pro 10.1 CM12.1 / Playstation 4 + G29 + 2TB Hybrid drive

  12. #60
    HEXUS.social member Agent's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Internet
    Posts
    19,158
    Thanks
    732
    Thanked
    1,604 times in 1,043 posts

    Re: PC game code stripping is widespread says report

    Quote Originally Posted by shaithis View Post
    Many are running in debt, complaining about multiple-millions of unit sales as "not enough" etc. So, I think there is a fair amount of evidence to point to them needing to look at their business model.
    Tarnishing the gaming industry as a whole, as a trying to hold onto a bad business model though just isn't true. In general the industry is quite healthy.

    The way people in this thread are talking, the entire industry is in collapse.
    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    And by trying to force me to like small pants, they've alienated me.

  13. #61
    Admin team peterb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Southampton
    Posts
    19,381
    Thanks
    2,892
    Thanked
    3,403 times in 2,693 posts
    • peterb's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Nascom 2
      • CPU:
      • Z80B
      • Memory:
      • 48K 8 bit memory on separate card
      • Storage:
      • Audio cassette tape - home built 5.25" floppy drive
      • Graphics card(s):
      • text output (composite video)
      • PSU:
      • Home built
      • Case:
      • Home built
      • Operating System:
      • Nas-sys
      • Monitor(s):
      • 12" monocrome composite video input
      • Internet:
      • No networking capability on this machine

    Re: PC game code stripping is widespread says report

    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    Tell you what, go to some investors and tell them you have this great new product that you are going to sell for less than it costs you to make, and then watch as they wet themselves laughing.
    What you consider a high markup doesn't take into account R&D, marketing, testing, etc, etc.
    Sure a company can charge more than the bottom line if they have a captive market and people are willing to pay, but to start selling products to one market but not another for less than it costs to make them is a fast road to bankruptcy.
    Very simplistic.

    It costs a given amount to develop a game regardless of the numbers sold. So the investment prospectus would define how that investment can be recouped before a profit is made. It might say " sell one copy for the whole amount" - that would get investors laughing.

    More likely it will be - sell n thousand at a 'premium' price - that covers the cost - any sales after that are pure proft - regardless of the selling price.

    A similar model existed in the airline industry. It used to be said that if a or Virgin sold all the seats in first class and busines class, that covered the overall cost of the flight and anything sold in economy was the profit. In practice there is a mix, but only a percentage of seats in each cabin have to be sold for the flight to break even.
    (\__/)
    (='.'=)
    (")_(")

    Been helped or just 'Like' a post? Use the Thanks button!
    My broadband speed - 750 Meganibbles/minute

  14. #62
    Registered+
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    37
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked
    2 times in 2 posts
    • AlSomething's system
      • CPU:
      • i7-4700MQ @ 2.4GHz
      • Memory:
      • 8GB
      • Storage:
      • 128GB SSD, 1TB HD
      • Graphics card(s):
      • GeForce GTX 765M
      • Case:
      • PC Specailist Laptop
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 7

    Re: PC game code stripping is widespread says report

    Steam and Origin stop this problem obviously when buying direct from them. So it is where I buy most of my games from, unless it is a free to play like World of Tanks.

    When I do buy games and software from ebay and amazon market place, I'm always very careful. I read the small print, and the reviews, not just that item but of the seller in general. Sometimes there is a workaround the region specific, but these are rare these days.

    It's normally fairly obvious to spot a lot of knock off price games, if you like cheap games, but also a gamble it's perfect for you, but don't moan when it doesn't work! Otherwise stick to more conventional retailers.

  15. #63
    Seriously casual gamer KeyboardDemon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    London
    Posts
    3,013
    Thanks
    774
    Thanked
    280 times in 242 posts
    • KeyboardDemon's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus Sabretooth Z77
      • CPU:
      • i7 3770k + Corsair H80 (Refurbed)
      • Memory:
      • 16gb (4x4gb) Corsair Vengence Red (1866mhz) - (Because it looks good in a black mobo)
      • Storage:
      • Crucial M550 SSD 1TB + 2x 500GB Seagate HDDs
      • Graphics card(s):
      • EVGA GTX 980 SC ACX 2.0 (Warranty replacement for 780Ti SC ACX)
      • PSU:
      • EVGA 750 watt SuperNova G2
      • Case:
      • Silverstone RV03
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 Pro 64 Bit
      • Monitor(s):
      • Asus Swift PG278Q
      • Internet:
      • BT Infinity (40mbs dl/10mbs ul)

    Re: PC game code stripping is widespread says report

    Quote Originally Posted by AlSomething View Post
    It's normally fairly obvious to spot a lot of knock off price games, if you like cheap games, but also a gamble it's perfect for you, but don't moan when it doesn't work! Otherwise stick to more conventional retailers.
    Or stick to the cheap suppliers that you know and trust or have heard of through recommendations from trusted sources/friends.

Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •