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About LinkBacksI think I'll be staying with win7 a tad longer. No reason for me to change yet but will keep an eye out for the future.
I think I'll be staying with win7 a tad longer. No reason for me to change yet but will keep an eye out for the future.
JABULANI NONKE
Interesting discussion on this.
First off, if W10 is as good as first reviews seem to suggest then I'll be pushing hard to upgrade our two W8.1 boxes to that.
For the W7-running laptop, the hardware is so old that this'll get left at W7 unless there's some major boost for SSD-hosted OS's in W10. For the W7 desktop (i.e. the gaming machine) I'd be very interested in hearing what the deal with the upgrade is - is it like older upgrades and only needs a W7 license key and/or media, or does it need an activated system? I have zero interest in doing upgrading the current W7 setup to W10 "in-place" and would much prefer to put on a W10 fresh copy. So for that reason, I think I might be better off with a full W10 pack.
Re the monetization:
o Like Saracen, paying subscription to use an OS is a non-starter for me. And as he says, if Redmond thought that they got roasted over MUI, then they're in for a "treat" with a pay-for-use OS. Tar and feathers on standby...
o I'm content with the idea of a free OS, but having to pay for "extra" features. Let's be honest - it wouldn't be the first time that MS went that route. Offhand I can't really think of any "extra" feature that I'd want to pay for - especially as 3rd party alternatives are so good these days;
o What's been mooted elsewhere is a dual-track approach to patches etc - so a subscription customer would get faster access to new features and perhaps even a Linux-style updater that did 3rd party "partner" products as well as the OS ones. I'm not sure how I'd feel about that;
It'll be interesting to see what eventually appears on our shelves.
Career status: still enjoying my new career in DevOps, but it's keeping me busy...
The question for me is hardware compatibility. 10, like 8, is supposed to use fewer resources (RAM, CPU at idle) than 7, so it could be a decent upgrade for an old laptop. The question is whether all devices (touchpad, wifi, ...) will be compatible with it.Originally Posted by crossy
My Windows 7 RV511 laptop (2011) and my Nokia Lumia 620 will be getting Windows 10 free of charge then? Sounds pretty good to me so far .. hopefully no unpleasant surprises pop up closer to the Windows 10 release date.
have any of you even thought it's a sales tactic ?
if they can make you to upgrade and experience windows 10 "by the way it's quite awesome as insider" then yea they might be able to make you use windows phones, tablets and future more consoles as well.
it's one of their major thoughts of course to get "back/more" customers and this is an amazing strategy to use really.
I'm really not seeing it coming with a monthly fee that's for sure. just think of all the business license they will lose as companies will move over to linux based operation systems instead of.
they are fully aware that windows7 is over 50% of all pc's but they also want to move forward and by allowing an free upgrade can they maybe get 30% or more if they are lucky.
if you won't want to use their services then it's not mandatory to do so. they are making it more flexible that's for sure.
try and get win10 and see for yourself that's all I can say
As opposed to?
Actually pretty simple. Msoft do not have the marketplace or ecosystem that Google or Apple has. Their app community is flagging behind monumentally, because there isnt the high enough userbase to warrant people developing for it, especially on mobile.
Microsofts strategy is as sound as it is simple. Give everyone the OS for free and unify everybody under win10. HUGE uplift in usage statistics (who doesn't like free?) and therefore more and more devs will start working on apps for Win10 and WinPhone. The revenue comes from the percentage of the sales of apps. So essentially getting people to create revenue streams for them.
Don't forget the Halo effect. Everyone bashed Vista (rightly so). So it made amends with Win7 that everyone seemingly loves. They took a dramatic move (too far) with Win8, but rectified a lot with 8.1 (i'm on that and frankly I have no complaints). So releasing a brand spanking new product for free for all customers - how wonderful Msoft are all of a sudden. It's a marketing departments dream.
Satyapal (22-01-2015)
Yes, I've heard the "it's more efficient" claim from the W8 fans. I'm thinking that given the laptop is pretty generic (it originally shipped with Vista) that W7 drivers will work fine for anything that doesn't have a specific W8/10 driver.
I can think of a few "enterprise" customers who'd love the idea that they'd be charged only for the number of "active" licenses per month. So when the CEO goes for his 6 week long golfing holiday, sorry "customer briefing tour", then accounting wouldn't have to pay for his laptop for a month.
I'd agree that there's something to that assessment, especially if it's followed up by a major push on the development apps (free Visual Studio anyone?). I've been reading/hearing how desktop is a dying market, so using their overwhelming market share in desktop to leverage a move on mobile seems like a pretty shrewd move.
I remember someone (The Animus?) telling me that I could dev an app for mobile and be certain that the same app would work with tablet, laptop and desktop. That is a pretty major plus point, and one that Apple and Google would struggle to match.
Last edited by crossy; 22-01-2015 at 12:24 PM.
Career status: still enjoying my new career in DevOps, but it's keeping me busy...
From http://blogs.windows.com/bloggingwin...ws-windows-10/
That's pretty unambiguous, at least as far as the core OS goes. If you upgrade in the first year, the OS upgrade is free, and it will continue to be free for the lifetime of the device.... We announced that a free upgrade for Windows 10 will be made available to customers running Windows 7, Windows 8.1, and Windows Phone 8.1 who upgrade in the first year after launch. ...
... once a Windows device is upgraded to Windows 10, we will continue to keep it current for the supported lifetime of the device – at no cost ...
Yes there will undoubtedly be optional chargeable services (like Office 365, for a starter), and MS will of course be desperate to monetise that huge Win 10 install base (assuming every Win 7 and Win 8 user upgrades for free). Mandatory chargeable services - given MS's anti-trust history - seem unlikely. And anyone not taking advantage of the free upgrade offer or buying Win 10 after the first year will still pay for their OS in the usual way (that's in either the blog link or the PGGamer one), so it's not like MS are suddenly giving Windows away left right and centre.
The small print on the blog post I linked above says "Some editions excluded". I wouldn't be at all surprised if Basic was one of them, I'm afraid....
It makes good business sense.
I will say at the last upgrade I picked a good few licenses at £14.99 and it paid off as I got a faster more stable OS for it, but as soon as you make something free many more will jump in.
In short I am sure us happy 8.1 users will upgrade to 8.2... I mean 10.
Hopefully 10 will pull the same trick as 7 did, vista as evil (so I have heard) so put a service pack on call it 7 off we go, so 8/8.1 are evil (so I have heard) so just put a service pack on and call it 10... Job done everybody will love it.
Wow!!
Its a good news for windows7 prople
So the question seems to be who says what the lifetime of the device is.
Its my emphasis above that is the vague bit.
If you buy a laptop, other than memory or storage, it has a finite life. If you have a desktop, self built, custom or branded, it has far more potential to "extend" its life, but at what point will it stop working with Windows 10?
What concerns me is that it will be like the Windows Activation again, only stricter and not allow any hardware changes.
Folks - before the hysteria, why not research?
Note the bold? And the source? SOURCE. Hidden... deep in the 4th paragraph of the announcement.Today was a monumental day for us on the Windows team because we shared our desire to redefine the relationship we have with you – our customers. We announced that a free upgrade for Windows 10 will be made available to customers running Windows 7, Windows 8.1, and Windows Phone 8.1 who upgrade in the first year after launch.*
This is more than a one-time upgrade: once a Windows device is upgraded to Windows 10, we will continue to keep it current for the supported lifetime of the device – at no cost. With Windows 10, the experience will evolve and get even better over time. We’ll deliver new features when they’re ready, not waiting for the next major release. We think of Windows as a Service – in fact, one could reasonably think of Windows in the next couple of years as one of the largest Internet services on the planet.
There is no between the lines - it's not Linux. You can't just download it anonymously, and install it forever and ever. You will have to have a legitimate 7/8/8.1 install, and if it's anything like the preview, an account to download the installs - but once it's registered, it's yours (as much as any software is yours). Install... re-install... whatever.
Guess it's too easy for people to keep on hating... the information isn't hard to find. Kind of like the last fiasco, where people accused Microsoft of stealing their info in a back handed manner, when it was right there on the first page of the privacy statement for the preview editions.
They're all evil, people - and it's not even a matter of degrees anymore.
Esse Quam Videri
Out on the road today I saw a Black Flag Sticker on a Cadillac...
Valid concerns, definitely, and I'd hope MS will issue more guidance nearer the time. Certainly the move towards continually updated OS and integrated monetisable services is likely to give enthusiasts a worse deal than consumers - we're far more likely to be performing our own installs so far less likely to benefit from any rebates or OEM incentives to use Win 10. That said, I also suspect we're far less likely to invest heavily in chargeable services, so perhaps MS have got it right, at least from a business point of view...
EDIT:
Just a thought, there's talk about the different editions of Windows being treated differently. I wonder if the old Ultimate edition will be treated as the one for Enthusiasts, with no limits to how often you can reinstall or what hardware changes you can make, but you end up paying more up front for the convenience....
It's not unambiguous.
As I keep saying, multiple statements, from a number of senior executives, including the CEO. and despite some people apparently believing they need to put bits of quotes in very large text, I'll say it once again, I did read it carefully. Very carefully. If you read politician's statements "carefully", you have to read not just what they appear to mean, but what the actual words can be construed to have meant, later, when they refer back and point out that what they did is consistent with what they said, but not what it was taken to have meant.
In other words, look for what they did not, or would not, explicitly rule out. That is why the totality of multiple comments, by senior staff including the CEO, is ambiguous.
Yes, this specific remark was clarified to mean existing installations upgraded, vree, for one year, after which upgrades will (in current plans) be charged for, as with previous versions. But they did not say charged for at what level? So, the £25-£40 "offer" price for Win8, or the £100-£200 "full" price for different versions of Win7?
They've stated that some 'apps' will be additional, but haven't specified exactly what the 'core' includes, and what extras will be charged. Or at what level. Or how. They also haven't said what will happen down the road, say, 2 years, 5 years, but have said that the current release model is effectively dead, and that their ambition is not to have 'releases', but that Win10 appears to become Windows, in which it's constantly updated, as and when patches, features, etc become available.
There are plenty of hints as to the ambiguity in there, if people will just read it as what it can be construed to mean, if MS so wish, not JUST what the reader thinks it means right now.Windows 10 is the first step to an era of more personal computing. This vision framed our work on Windows 10, where we are moving Windows from its heritage of enabling a single device – the PC – to a world that is more mobile, natural and grounded in trust. We believe your experiences should be mobile – not just your devices. Technology should be out of the way and your apps, services and content should move with you across devices, seamlessly and easily. In our connected and transparent world, we know that people care deeply about privacy – and so do we. That’s why everything we do puts you in control – because you are our customer, not our product. We also believe that interacting with technology should be as natural as interacting with people – using voice, pen, gestures and even gaze for the right interaction, in the right way, at the right time. These concepts led our development and you saw them come to life today.
Delivering Windows as a Service and a Free Upgrade to Windows 10
Today was a monumental day for us on the Windows team because we shared our desire to redefine the relationship we have with you – our customers. We announced that a free upgrade for Windows 10 will be made available to customers running Windows 7, Windows 8.1, and Windows Phone 8.1 who upgrade in the first year after launch.*
This is more than a one-time upgrade: once a Windows device is upgraded to Windows 10, we will continue to keep it current for the supported lifetime of the device – at no cost. With Windows 10, the experience will evolve and get even better over time. We’ll deliver new features when they’re ready, not waiting for the next major release. We think of Windows as a Service – in fact, one could reasonably think of Windows in the next couple of years as one of the largest Internet services on the planet.
Could it mean that instead of charging £25-£40 for a Win8 upgrade, it'll be £0 for a year, then life reverts to normal? Maybe. But MS have made it VERY clear that they see Windows evolving from a product to a service. They've made clear, in other statements that they see changes in HOW they "monetise" (horrible word) Windows, without stipulating how.
Statements made so far apparently eliminate any form of subscription charging model at this time, but the product changes definitely are designed in a way that it would facilitate that once the customer base is large enough, and committed enough.
For instance ...On the surface, that means free for the life of the device. What about your next device? My current retail version of Windows can be moved from one PC to another, if/when I upgrade hardware. This is why I use full, retail product, not OEM licensing. So, Win10 is free "for the life of the device". What's the definition of "life of device". And who decides?This is more than a one-time upgrade: once a Windows device is upgraded to Windows 10, we will continue to keep it current for the supported lifetime of the device – at no cost. With Windows 10, the experience will evolve and get even better over time.
This is no small question. I bought a Garmin SatNav recently with "free lifetime map updates". Anyone thinking this query over "lifetime" is trivial ought to read Garmin's small-print defining that. Essentially, Garmin can end it at will. Without having a careful definition of what MS mean by both "supported" and "life" the phrase is ambiguous as hell. Does "supported" mean bug fixes and security updates, or does it mean "all new windows versions for as long as my device continues to work"?
I'll bet it isn't the latter. Odds are there'll be some caveat about it being economicslly viable to continue supporting legacy hardware, which while understandable, is an open door for MS to do whatever they wish. And, it's certainly ambiguous.
MS go on about "changing relationships", about Windows as a service not a product, about changing how it's monetised, and on the new "universal" apps shipping with Win10 ....Two things on that. First, Win10 may be subscriptionless, but that 'service' may well not be. Or may be for very low usage, but after that, may either be bought in slabs, or metered like your electricity usage. Maybe that's one changed method of 'monetising" .... the app and Win10 are free, at least for a year, but using some aspects of it might not be.Content is stored and synced through OneDrive, enabling you to start something on one device and continue it on another.
Secondly, my personal reaction to my data being stored on OneDrive is HELL NO. Under no circumstances. So, to what extent is OneDrive integrated into Win10 as a "service"? It may be entirely optional. It may be mandatory IF using these new, standard "universal" apps but otherwise voluntary, and it may well be MSs long term strategy to position Windows as the platform by which these extra (and chargeable) services are delivered .... and leveraged. As MS said, even in that page you linked, Jim, but on other occasions and in other statements too, the entire nature of Windows is evolving, as is the method of monetising it. They also said, very explicitly, on that linked page, that Win10 is the first step, without stipulating either what step 2 is, or where the road leads.
MSs current public position is pretty much the embodiment of ambiguity, and anyone not seeing that needs to read their collective statements, not just this one event, more carefully ... and cynically. And remember, I'm not stating what I think they are up to, merely what it might be that is consistent with ambiguous statements about changing relationships, evolving Windows as a service not a product, and with the apparent direction of the strategy.
And, of course, this direction as a service, and a cross-device service at that, is entirely consistent with the rather ham-fisted attempt at ramming Win8 MUI down users throats, whether they wanted it or not. I don't expect MSs broad strategy has changed one bit, but clearly, the tactics and press offensive have. Why is Win10 'free' for a year? Perhaps because having tried brute force and having had it blow up in their face, this time they're trying bribery? People that will moan about UI and feature changes in a product they have to pay for may well be more accepting in a 'free' one .... especially where the method of monetising is changing.
IMHO, nothing has changed in strategic direction, but simply the tactics to get there have. Which is why I rather expect to end up with Windows 7 and XP legacy devices, and Linux on everything else. Time may prove me wrong about that, but only time will tell.
Bambooz (27-01-2015)
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