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Thread: Windows 10 to be a free upgrade for Windows 7 and 8 users

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    Re: Windows 10 to be a free upgrade for Windows 7 and 8 users

    I wish Microsoft would release a vanilla version of Windows 10 without all these apps that a lot of users, especially business users, just don't want or need.

    There is absolutely no reason why we couldn't download these apps if or when we want them rather than having to uninstall or disable them.

    As a media producer, we enjoy the latest products to make our work faster and more efficient. We really don't want Cortana, xBox apps, tablet features and all the other junk taking up space and resources.

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    Re: Windows 10 to be a free upgrade for Windows 7 and 8 users

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    And, of course, this direction as a service, and a cross-device service at that, is entirely consistent with the rather ham-fisted attempt at ramming Win8 MUI down users throats, whether they wanted it or not. I don't expect MSs broad strategy has changed one bit, but clearly, the tactics and press offensive have. Why is Win10 'free' for a year? Perhaps because having tried brute force and having had it blow up in their face, this time they're trying bribery? People that will moan about UI and feature changes in a product they have to pay for may well be more accepting in a 'free' one .... especially where the method of monetising is changing.

    IMHO, nothing has changed in strategic direction, but simply the tactics to get there have. Which is why I rather expect to end up with Windows 7 and XP legacy devices, and Linux on everything else. Time may prove me wrong about that, but only time will tell.
    I agree with most of what you've said, but want to make 3 points.

    1. You're right for all the reasons you listed to say that it is ambiguous. However I think it's fair to remember that this was a short press event for a product that is at least 6 months away from release and still under constant development. Some of the short statements they made will doubtless be clarified one way or the other before release, and others firmed up once they know exactly what is developed and stable enough to make the final release. I guess the point I'm making is that we shouldn't condemn them at this stage for what they [i]haven't[b] said, but keep a keen eye on what happens from now until release.

    2. Since Windows 8 launched MS have a new CEO & new VP for Windows. While I'm not entirely sure what they mean by their new mantra of 'Mobile first, Cloud first' to say that you don't believe their strategic direction has changed at all seems curious. The minds that came up with the strategy & implementation of MUI are no longer top dogs.

    3. My hunch is that the free part is to unify as much of the Windows market as possible on 1 version, as Apple do so successfully in their eco system. This should reduce their support costs and allow them to develop new things (like the platform agnostic applications,) that the majority of their user-base can access from day 1. As an example, this could single handedly save the Windows Phone marketplace from becoming an app free wasteland, as the desktop stuff will 'just work' there as well.
    This is however, my opinion. I don't pretend to know their aims and so don't presume they are inherently good or bad (which is a personal judgement for each user anyway.)

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    Re: Windows 10 to be a free upgrade for Windows 7 and 8 users

    It strikes me that Mantle is helped by Windows 7 staying relevant, so moving people off 7 reduces that embarrassment for them.

    I notice they have adopted some SteamOS traits like streaming as well, I guess hoping to avoid people fleeing in that direction.

    I presume all the new corporate PCs bought because the old one went out of warranty will come with a purchased license as always, so the majority revenue stream isn't changed and this sounds more generous than it really is.

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    Re: Windows 10 to be a free upgrade for Windows 7 and 8 users

    He never mentioned what SPYWARE has been coded into windows 10 or the backdoor for the security services to snoop on EVERYBODY,
    and there one cloud just not interested in this at all, I just have a larger external hard drive
    for all my Photos and private stuff, who in there right mind would trust one cloud!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Re: Windows 10 to be a free upgrade for Windows 7 and 8 users

    If your going to do a subscription make it like
    $2 a month - student
    $4 a month - Core
    $7 a month - Pro

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    Re: Windows 10 to be a free upgrade for Windows 7 and 8 users

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    It strikes me that Mantle is helped by Windows 7 staying relevant, so moving people off 7 reduces that embarrassment for them.

    I notice they have adopted some SteamOS traits like streaming as well, I guess hoping to avoid people fleeing in that direction.

    I presume all the new corporate PCs bought because the old one went out of warranty will come with a purchased license as always, so the majority revenue stream isn't changed and this sounds more generous than it really is.

    Not sure what Mantle has to do with anything... that's AMD tech, and not specific to any OS.

    As far as SteamOS traits, SteamOS is nothing more than a shell sitting on Linux, which I'm sure you already know, and it should also be obvious that streaming kind of pre-dates SteamOS by at least a decade. And for as much of a Linux enthusiast as I am, SteamOS will never make a dent in Windows or console gaming, regardless of what GabeN promotes. This is only the second time an attempt to bring Linux itself to the mainstream, let alone Linux as a gaming platform (Loki Software, which closed its doors ~13 years ago).

    Sorry - I don't get the hysteria, paranoia or borderline hatred here. I dumped a lot of US tech sites for the same reason.

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    Re: Windows 10 to be a free upgrade for Windows 7 and 8 users

    Quote Originally Posted by tomthum View Post
    He never mentioned what SPYWARE has been coded into windows 10 or the backdoor for the security services to snoop on EVERYBODY,
    and there one cloud just not interested in this at all, I just have a larger external hard drive
    for all my Photos and private stuff, who in there right mind would trust one cloud!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Probably the same spyware hard coded into Ubuntu, iOS and ChromeOS...

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    Re: Windows 10 to be a free upgrade for Windows 7 and 8 users

    Quote Originally Posted by GuidoLS View Post
    SteamOS will never make a dent in Windows or console gaming ... This is only the second time an attempt to bring Linux itself to the mainstream
    Sorry - I don't get the hysteria, paranoia or borderline hatred here. I dumped a lot of US tech sites for the same reason.
    Quote Originally Posted by GuidoLS View Post
    Probably the same spyware hard coded into Ubuntu, iOS and ChromeOS...
    iOS might very well have loads of spyware in it, ChromeOS I thought there was a lot of source code for. But Ubuntu, where exactly (other than in binary blobs like the NVidia driver) would they be able to hide that - afaik Canonical issued source. And certainly for the kernel they use. So even you aren't immune from "paranoia"?

    By the way, it's way too early to call "fail" on SteamOS - I seem to remember a lot of scoffing at the iPhone, and then Android. Oh, and Linux definitely IS mainstream, just not on the desktop at the moment. If you don't believe me then ask Redhat (server OS), IBM/HP (both big Linux players), quite a lot of router manufacturers, Google (Android's a derivative), etc.

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    Re: Windows 10 to be a free upgrade for Windows 7 and 8 users

    Quote Originally Posted by GuidoLS View Post
    Not sure what Mantle has to do with anything... that's AMD tech, and not specific to any OS.

    As far as SteamOS traits, SteamOS is nothing more than a shell sitting on Linux, which I'm sure you already know, and it should also be obvious that streaming kind of pre-dates SteamOS by at least a decade. And for as much of a Linux enthusiast as I am, SteamOS will never make a dent in Windows or console gaming, regardless of what GabeN promotes. This is only the second time an attempt to bring Linux itself to the mainstream, let alone Linux as a gaming platform (Loki Software, which closed its doors ~13 years ago).

    Sorry - I don't get the hysteria, paranoia or borderline hatred here. I dumped a lot of US tech sites for the same reason.
    OpenGL isn't specific to any OS, and yet from the days of Windows NT MS tried to kill it. Letting Mantle survive just isn't very them.

    This isn't hysteria, just the sort of skepticism you get from using their products since Microsoft Basic on the TRS-80.

    I miss Loki software. I have a couple of their games kicking around somewhere. Shame the pointless way they were forced out of business. The Linux steam client has certainly made a dent in my gaming, though in the end it is all about the games. This computer would be in Fedora right now, except I want to play some Elite so Windows it is.

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    Re: Windows 10 to be a free upgrade for Windows 7 and 8 users

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    OpenGL isn't specific to any OS, and yet from the days of Windows NT MS tried to kill it. Letting Mantle survive just isn't very them.
    True (to an extent). Mantle (as far as my limited knowledge allows) gives low-level gfx access, so - to quote a US site I was reading - "does an end-run around DirectX". Can't see MS being that bothered by it though, since it's not converting people from Windows. OpenGL I remember using way back in the late-80's/early-90's on SGI kit ... nostalgia.
    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    The Linux steam client has certainly made a dent in my gaming, though in the end it is all about the games. This computer would be in Fedora right now, except I want to play some Elite so Windows it is.
    Quite true - just wish I had the space to dual-boot my gaming PC, would love to see if a Linux-based gaming experience is better than a Windows one. And I empathise with that last bit (my "main" PC is Ubuntu), as a colleague of mine said "I choose Linux for myself, but others choose Windows for me"

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    Re: Windows 10 to be a free upgrade for Windows 7 and 8 users

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    ... This computer would be in Fedora right now, except I want to play some Elite so Windows it is.
    One option, and I use it, is to have a removable hard drive cage and use it for the boot drive. And, optionally, a 2.5 to 3.5 adapter. I can boot from either size drive, HD or SSD, and (currently) can boot into W7, W8, XP or Ubuntu, by changing drive. And as the drive bay is trayless, it takes bare drives.

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    Re: Windows 10 to be a free upgrade for Windows 7 and 8 users

    Quote Originally Posted by GuidoLS View Post
    ....

    Sorry - I don't get the hysteria, paranoia or borderline hatred here. I dumped a lot of US tech sites for the same reason.
    This is a forum, and people are free, within the rules, to express their view.

    I'm not seeing hysteria or paranoia, let alone borderline hatred. What I am seeing is considerable scepticism. Why? Statements that have been made, and decisions that have been made in the past. For example, using a subscription model for Office365, or Adobe switching all their high-end, non-consumer products to a susctiption model. THAT affected me significantly, as I've been a Photoshop user since v3 (not CS3, but Photoshop 3 20-odd years ago). I don't, however, buy every upgrade. I choose when to pay, and for what. But since Adobe switched to a subscription ONLY model, I have a choice of sticking with my existing version and foregoing new versions, or paying a sub every month. My usage pattern is such that I use it for specific jobs, but sometimes don't use it for months at a time. With a one-off upgrade cost, I can decide if that specified, known cost is justified or not, but with a subscription, many months I'll be paying for something I won't use.

    Part of Adobe's argument was that by switching to this model, they keep everybody constantly at the same software stage, and release patches, fixes and features when they're ready, not waiting for major releases. See any similarity with MS comments?

    Adobe switching to a compulsory sub model caught me by surprise, them having previously offered dual tracks, and yed, I'm still annoyed by it. MS have then made many of the same noises, and made many of the same moves but have not YET gone as far down the same path. Maybe they will, maybe they won't, but it's not paranoia to consider it, especially given comments, over a long time, about changing monetising methods, and their self-evident irritation with many users sticking to OS versions MS regard as EOL. MS want everybody upgrading, every time they bring out a new version of a product, be it OS, Office or whatever. That is their revenue stream, and version stickiness reduces it. So, get people used to a "service" rather than a product, and you're far better placed to start charging for this "service" than you are if you do an Adobe and go the whole hog in one big jump.

    None of this is paranoia, etc. It's opinion, in a discussion forum. If you're looking for a forum where everybody shares your opinion, I can only suggest starting your own where you can set the rules and ban anyone that says things you don't agree with. I for one am not about to stop expressing my opinion because you don't like it. If that means you leave, well that's a shame but it's your decision.

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    Re: Windows 10 to be a free upgrade for Windows 7 and 8 users

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    OpenGL isn't specific to any OS, and yet from the days of Windows NT MS tried to kill it. Letting Mantle survive just isn't very them.
    Did they?

    I remember at the time that the consortium was doing a fine job of that themselves, dear god that API, I think many people still suffer PTSD from it. What was funny is originally the D3D one was a pile of oh dear too.

    http://rmitz.org/carmack.on.opengl.html For a famous rant on the matter.

    But what happened next was far too much biodiversity in OpenGL land. This made it really difficult. Meanwhile DirectX was having money thrown at it, with a clear direction. Probably not helped by the change in GFX card vendors too, but MS aligned themselves heavily for the xbox. It became that focused platform, rather than some jack of all trades.
    throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)

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    Re: Windows 10 to be a free upgrade for Windows 7 and 8 users

    I share much of Saracen's scepticism. This reminds me of the Xbox One launch, and it seems many of the same people are involved.

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    Re: Windows 10 to be a free upgrade for Windows 7 and 8 users

    @Crossy - I'm not paranoid. I'm a realist, and also make it a point to educate myself. To wit, Unity (up to 8) and the default Amazon search. But don't let me call it spyware - let someone with far more credibility on these things do it -

    Free Software Foundation President Richard Stallman today called Ubuntu Linux "spyware" because the operating system sends data to Ubuntu maker Canonical when a user searches the desktop.

    But his complaint is already falling on deaf ears—Canonical said today that it plans to increase use of the feature Stallman objects to in order to deliver expanded Internet search results in the next version of Ubuntu.
    One source, of many

    And, of course, it wasn't just Stallman. It was a huge segment of the community. And while it wasn't removed, at least it's no longer ON by default. It's why when I use a distro other than Slack, it's Mint or LXLE.

    @Saracen - I agree. Freedom of expression is wonderful. It's what makes the 'net the lively, breathing thing it is. I'll not point it out directly, so as to not cause embarrassment, but if you don't see at least one HIGHLY paranoid post in this discussion, then I'd suggest that some sort of blinders may be involved. I'll still be sticking around here, though. For the most part, things are far more civilized here than they are on many forums. Seems they only get really rowdy when the discussion involved nVidia/AMD, Intel/AMD or M$oft. And some of the far more drama inducing topics (which I won't mention, so as to avoid bringing the trash here) are completely absent, for which I am grateful. But I do feel that some people are somewhat more willful than necessary to find a wrong on an issue - be it implied, real or complete fantasy. The same applies everywhere, but due to the high level of civility here, it's glaringly, painfully obvious when it happens here. That's a compliment, btw.

    I get that Microsoft was a bad actor in the 90's. I still have issues with the browser thing, because I refuse to believe that anyone smart enough to use a computer as a tool is too dumb to install their own choice of browser. I'm just sort of astounded that a convicted murderer in Europe gets more consideration than a software company... and I kind of dislike playing the role of M$oft apologist, when at this stage of the game, I feel like they are pretty much the least 'evil' of the for profit OS providers. They don't make it hard to find information. They don't hide what they do. And as far as Windows 10 goes, they make it crystal clear what they're going to do, price wise, for the first year. Afterwards, no - there is no pricing. But by the same token, it's not released yet. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt - and I'm grateful that I'll be getting multiple machines upgraded for free from what's not the most current OS. And if they screw up, I know how to revert.

    I want SteamOS, or at least its shell on top of my Slack install, to not only survive, but thrive. Loki failed because so few wanted to go native back then (cheers to id, at least, although boo at the same time for charging full price on Quake Arena for each OS) and even fewer wanted to allow Loki into the innards of their software. I have most of their library to this day. I just don't see GabeN having enough influence to steer AAA's over to Linux/OGL (I was a very early Red Hat adopter - until they decided way back when to make it difficult to use the MP3 codec. I know it's changed since, but I simply prefer the more hands on with Slackware. Feels more like 'my' creation, if you know what I mean) For that matter, I'd really prefer if Linux, as an OS, would gain full acceptance as a mainstream desktop OS. But the sad truth is, it's all about the games. If little Johnny can't play WOW with all the bells and whistles on, at max resolution, straight out of the box, then it's the fault of somebody else. Something being enterprise just doesn't cut it anymore. And we all know it.

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    Re: Windows 10 to be a free upgrade for Windows 7 and 8 users

    I think I'll wait until after the free offer is over. I would much prefer to just buy my OS and be done with Microsoft the old fashioned way. I don't want a cloud following me around or Microsoft to redefine the relationship they seem to think we have, thank you very much.

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