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About LinkBacksNot tried it and will not for at least 6 months until all the bugs are fixed. And anyways, if 8.1 ain't broke (for me anyways) why change.
Not tried it and will not for at least 6 months until all the bugs are fixed. And anyways, if 8.1 ain't broke (for me anyways) why change.
Largely agree, but I'll focus on the last para which, as I'm sure you're aware, isn't quite right.Originally Posted by Splash
The current (new) privacy policy splits down into two main categories, the generic bit, and the services bit. Those provisions on services bits, such as Cortana, apply only to Cortana so, at least for now, are relevant to Windows 10, but not earlier.
And a fair bit of the rights previously claimed for services only apply IF you use those services, such as OneDrive, which (I'm assured) you had to explicitly sign up for. Now, as I understand it, signing into your MS account automatically ensures all sorts of data is uploaded immediately to MS servers, not least, contacts bookmarks, calendar events, favourites, etc, all of which is necessary if the user wants instant access to those items across multiple devices.
Other data is only grabbed if you use Win10 features, like Cortana.
As for switching to Ubuntu, it's about more than just privacy. It's also about choices in usability, like which UI you want, and being able to change. It's about picking a distro, and not just Ubuntu, to suit your preferences, be it bare-bones or fully loaded. And it's about a decision not just about Windows but applications too, like avoiding Office.
There's no utopian privacy-preserving option, but in my opinion, Ubuntu is much less invasive that Win10, at least, for now.
Or rather, there is one utopian option. Don't put online, or do online, ANYTHING you don't want data vampires like MS or Google coming after. Which is why I don't bank online, very rarely use online shopping, stopped using Amazon years ago, and so on. And any really personal data of mine is on systems that are air-gapped, and physically don't have any way to access, or be accessed from, the internet.
Is there any indication that using a local account means that the privacy policy doesn't apply? By that I mean do they specifically state what parts do not apply.
From what I've read local account or not they could still legally apply, if for instance Microsoft isn't as successful in preventing any future secret requests from a government agency.
Not sure I agree with you on this - my interpretation (and that's all it is) is that you can use Win10 without signing into a Microsoft account, and you can disable Cortana. This would disable the methods of Microsoft obtaining data about you, and as such may go some way toward allaying your concerns.
All of which applies if you're signing into an earlier version of Windows with a Microsoft account.The current (new) privacy policy splits down into two main categories, the generic bit, and the services bit. Those provisions on services bits, such as Cortana, apply only to Cortana so, at least for now, are relevant to Windows 10, but not earlier.
And a fair bit of the rights previously claimed for services only apply IF you use those services, such as OneDrive, which (I'm assured) you had to explicitly sign up for. Now, as I understand it, signing into your MS account automatically ensures all sorts of data is uploaded immediately to MS servers, not least, contacts bookmarks, calendar events, favourites, etc, all of which is necessary if the user wants instant access to those items across multiple devices.
Agreed, but then you could just disable CortanaOther data is only grabbed if you use Win10 features, like Cortana.
Understood, but then as I said I wasn't targeting that comment at yourself but rather at the wider internet of people who seem to think that Linux (and in particular Ubuntu) is the bastion of privacy. Don't get me wrong: I use Linux on a more or less daily basis both at home and work. It's a great tool for a job, but I lost a lot of faith in Canonical over the Unity debacle.As for switching to Ubuntu, it's about more than just privacy. It's also about choices in usability, like which UI you want, and being able to change. It's about picking a distro, and not just Ubuntu, to suit your preferences, be it bare-bones or fully loaded. And it's about a decision not just about Windows but applications too, like avoiding Office.
As above: I disagree with you on the latter point.There's no utopian privacy-preserving option, but in my opinion, Ubuntu is much less invasive that Win10, at least, for now.
Yep, that's an option. I weigh up the pros and cons and come to a different conclusion, but so long as people are doing this (and not blindly repeating rumours that they read from unqualified sources on random internet forums) then everyone's a winner. Nobody is forcing anybody to upgrade to Windows 10, or do anything else without their agreement.Or rather, there is one utopian option. Don't put online, or do online, ANYTHING you don't want data vampires like MS or Google coming after. Which is why I don't bank online, very rarely use online shopping, stopped using Amazon years ago, and so on. And any really personal data of mine is on systems that are air-gapped, and physically don't have any way to access, or be accessed from, the internet.
How would Microsoft tie any data that they might hold back to you?
As for government agency requests: I'd be more concerned about your ISP personally.
Initially thought it was Ok, now it is beginning to irritate me. I have installed classic shell to get a better start menu as I found the long alphabetical scroll up an down a PITA and I had got rid of the useless "Apps". I am also falling out with the "new notifications" action centre bar. I takes me to things that should be in the Control Panel but does not so ends up as a bipolar control system. In fact that is still my feeling with windows 10, it still presents itself as as confused OS that tries to be an OS for all seasons but fails at being really good at any one.
You can, I'm told, install and /or use W10 without signing in to an MS account. Guido tested it, and I've certainly no reason to think he's wrong. And yes, MS say that will "disable" Cortana. But, define "disable"? Does it mean no aspects of Cortana load, or it loads but doesn't log data, even locally, or it logs data but doesn't upload until/unless you sign in, or it logs, uploads but just doesn't personlise results?
There was the same questionmark over how MS implemented cameras and microphones in Kinect, if you remember? Affer an initial furore over 'always on" they announced you could "turn Kinect off", and it wasn't "listening" until you powered it up by saying "Kinect on" or somesuch. Which begs an obvious question ... if it's not "listening", AND processing audio data, how does it know you said "Kinect on"?
Now, maybe it was ONLY listening and processing for that phrase, or maybe it was listening and processing exactly as before, and only responding in a say the user could see to that phrase.
Hence my scepticism, or at least concern, over what does and does not get disabled, if you don't log into an MS account. And why we have to read privacy agreements very carefully, with a view to what MS can argue words and phrases mean, rather than the impression the reader may get, perhaps because they interpret it as they want it to mean.
Head into settings and you can disable it entirely so it does not load
Agreed, and sure, nobody is forcing people to upgrade .... though I'd argue that the way MS used "updates" to install (without permission, by the way) their Win10 nag screen, comes pretty close, especially for the technically unwary, which hopefully isn't anyone on this forum.
For me, it's about genuinely informed consent, without which, it may not be force but it's deceit. Which would you be more annoyed about, being mugged and having £500 stolen, or being ID-thieved, and losing £500 to a con artist? There's no force in the latter, but personally, I'd be pretty peeved either way.
By putting nag screens up, MS are at a minimum applying psychological pressure, and hotly promoting inline "upgrades" MS are likely to get large numbers of people just clicking for their "free upgrade". If they made clear exactly what the trade was, which is VAST amounts of data about users, and almost every aspect of their lives, in exchange for 'personalised' help for Cortana, etc, then perhaps fair enough. But instead they're acting like the worst grade of used car salesmen, waxing lyrical about the car stereo without mentioning that the gearbox is about to fall out.
Remember how extra features in a Word install work (or used to, anyway). When you first tried to use them, you'd get a dialog offering to install, and requesting the CD. If MS offered "features" like Cortana on an opt-in basis for those that want them, and did it with openness about the privacy trade-off, I'd have no objection .... or rather, just one. That being that if you have data about me in your contacts (like, address, home and mobile numbers, etc) then when MS plunder .... sorry, "analyse your data to provide personalied services", they're acquiring data on ME without MY permission. There's certainly no consent, informed or otherwise, from me.
So I object on two grounds. First, MS are doing this on an opt-out basis rather than opt-in, and opting out involves quite a lot of work for anyone doing it, because you have to make settings changes all over the place and it's easy to miss some, especially for those that don't realise what MS are doing in the first place. I still haven't forgiven Scan for their arrogance in foisting a chargeable service, ScanSure, on customers and expecting us to opt out - an obnoxious practice subsequently made illegal. And MS are acting in the same arrogant manner, effectively co-opting private data without being direct and up-front about the 'price' paid in privacy for their 'free' upgrade.
Second, their strategy is underhand, and markedly lacking in informed consent. How would you react to a car lease offer that looked very good indeed, because the company buried the fact that there s a 75% residual on page 42 of a 45 page agreement? Or if you paid 25 years of mortgage payments only to find yourself indentured for another 25 years of slave labour?
That, at the core, is my gripe. An opt-out with semi-hidden costs that amounts to a con-job, and lack of genuine informed consent.
"Frequency Out of range" :3
I really don't like the sound of all this privacy stuff and think I will consider it before the "free" upgrade finishes next year. By then the os should have been torn apart and all the pro's and con's found out. Blackviper should have published his "tweak" guide by then as well.
It's not down to me or anyone else to prove how it could be tied back to specific people or locations, it's down to the person or company to prove that's not what their going to do.
The ISP comment is conflating the idea that an ISP could monitor your connection, your network traffic, with what's stored on you PC, what you say, type, or encrypt, there's a big difference between the two, it's like the difference between someone being able to watch who is coming and going from your house, and being able to walk into your house anytime they like without your knowledge and rifle though all your personal belongings.
Last edited by Corky34; 01-08-2015 at 05:40 PM. Reason: bad spelling and stuff
So far so good. Couple of Memory management errors but they will be fixed in due course.
I've yet to try it. Still using my Windows 7 laptop. I'm a bit concerned about the direction windows is going in. Hopefully Windows 10 won't become a subscription based service or monetize your private personal computer usage and data. If so I might go the Linux and Steam OS route.
Been fine for me since i upgraded to 10. No issues so far!
I was a beta tester also and it ran fine, BUT the update install was a disaster ( BSOD after BSOD) that eventually forced me to reformat my drive, install windows 8 from scratch, update that and then update to windows 10. A google search shows that i am not alone which makes me wonder what changed just before launch. I never had a problem with the beta versions.
Overall win 10 is nice and once i finish reconfiguring it - it will be fine.
My best sugguestion to others is wait awhile to update if you are inclined to do so.
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