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Thread: Microsoft Windows 10 Fall Creators Update arrives

  1. #17
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    Re: Microsoft Windows 10 Fall Creators Update arrives

    My more basic machines upgraded fine but my main rig rebooted to a black screen with a broken white line at the top and full lock-up twice before I downloaded the ISO and did an in-place upgrade *shrug*

    Haven't played anything yet to see improvements.
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    Re: Microsoft Windows 10 Fall Creators Update arrives

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    I am really surprised less people are commenting on this....
    I would guess it's because so far the evidence seems to be rather anecdotal and/or circumstantial, a few people saying things like "I believe I was getting around 15 more FPS", "I have a hypothesis", and "about a 10 fps increase" isn't what i personally would consider reliable, that's not to say it doesn't warrant further investigation, just that other factors need to be eliminated pre and post FCU update such as game mode on/off, game bar on/off, and driver versions across a range of different game titles and hardware.

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    Re: Microsoft Windows 10 Fall Creators Update arrives

    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    I would guess it's because so far the evidence seems to be rather anecdotal and/or circumstantial, a few people saying things like "I believe I was getting around 15 more FPS", "I have a hypothesis", and "about a 10 fps increase" isn't what i personally would consider reliable, that's not to say it doesn't warrant further investigation, just that other factors need to be eliminated pre and post FCU update such as game mode on/off, game bar on/off, and driver versions across a range of different game titles and hardware.
    Which is why I made the comment - people are more worried about some 10% faster CPU or a phone with a 10% better camera for 100s of quid more,but here is a Windows update that might actually give you extra performance?? Surely that would warrant some more excitement and some more testing??

    It does not cost anyone with Win10 extra monies too.

    Plus I don't know why you just ignored the tests Joker did - he got some good improvements with his AMD and Nvidia cards,which matches what some people are seeing too,and he actually ran test sequences by each other.

    Not everyone is rocking the latest SKL/KL/CFL Core i7 at 5GHZ!

    Edit!!

    So go forth and test is what I say!

    Second Edit!!

    At the very least we get a clearer view of what games and system configs show any improvements. I actually am more interested if Ryzen gets any boosts in CPU limited scenarios for example.
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 20-10-2017 at 01:09 PM.

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    Re: Microsoft Windows 10 Fall Creators Update arrives

    The testing comes first, the excitement would follow if testing showed improves that can be replicated.

    I didn't ignore the testing Joker did, i may have missed some parts as i CBA to sit through 12min of someone waffling on about a Windows update and the performance gains he claims resulted from that update when he doesn't details of what he even tested, i mean we only find out he was testing a Vega 56 after 7min, and people have called into question Joker productions testing methodology.



    Personally it's why i don't like video reviews/testing as what settings are used and the details of the test system are normally ignored.
    Last edited by Corky34; 20-10-2017 at 01:17 PM.

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    Re: Microsoft Windows 10 Fall Creators Update arrives

    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    snip
    You are just coming across as very jaded and negative. So many people are saying its helping out and you go meh.

    Its sad when an enthusiast forum when people are more excited about stupid hardware improvements,but here is a free update you can actually go and out and test games with YOURSELF,and all you do is moan.

    Instead of complaining go out and test it. At least we can get some more information which is useful for people- people are more worried about throwing hardware at problems it seems,instead of actually seeing if can actually increase performance on what we have or NOT. Its a dog in the manger attitude.

    But its OFC understandable,when computer forums are more about gear acquisition I suppose.
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 20-10-2017 at 01:18 PM.

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    Re: Microsoft Windows 10 Fall Creators Update arrives

    Call it jaded and negative if you like but personally i want a little more evidence than anecdotes and circumstances, you maybe fine with a stranger on the internet telling you FCU = better FPS and that's fine, personally though i believe these things should be approached in a scientific manner.

    As for testing it I'll leave that to yourself and/or someone that has the time to validate these claims in a manner that can be replicated and verified.

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    Re: Microsoft Windows 10 Fall Creators Update arrives

    Someone over on OcUK did a few quick tests with benchmarks.

    Ryzen 5, 1600x,
    Two 8gb sticks of 3200mhz DDR4, (8 pack Team Pro) and a
    GTX 1080 with an out of the box overclock of 1797 boost with stock memory. (MSI 1080 Armor)


    Spoiler
    Game tested, API, min/avg/max

    ROTTR DX11 Before Update

    MP- 12.52/32.12/69.97
    S-- 4.26/21/05/38.04
    GV 9.64/22.11/41.16
    Overall 25.13

    ROTTR DX11 After Update

    MP-- 24.28/39.89/77.14
    S-- 6.99/26.17/47.71 v
    GV-- 16.73/26.54/39.53
    Overall 31.14

    ROTTR DX12 Before Update

    MP-- 22.81/40.42/60.22
    S-- 2.50/22.76/68.16
    GV-- 1.19/24.34/32.76
    Overall 29.49

    ROTTR DX12 After Update

    MP-- 21.59/40.08/61.31
    S-- 18.42/25.26/28.39
    GV-- 6.63/24.72/32.47
    Overall 30.29

    F1 2016 Before Update

    Clear Weather 55/75/95

    Heavy rain 58/74/89

    F1 2016 After Update

    Clear Weather 61/78/96

    Heavy Rain 58/74/88

    Unigine Valley Before Update

    25/53.8/115.9
    Score 2252

    Unigine Valley After Update

    25.4/53.9/115.7
    Score 2255
    ROTTR shows decent improvements in DX11,and in both DX11 and DX12 there is an improvement in minimums. F1 2016 in one of the two game tests shows an improvement in minimums. Game mode was not used.

    Another person tested the CEMU emulator with one of the Zelda games:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEFOPugd2FA



    In some areas the difference is as much as 8FPS.

    From what I gather if you have a much higher end CPU the improvements are not really that much which would make sense.
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 20-10-2017 at 05:22 PM.

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    Re: Microsoft Windows 10 Fall Creators Update arrives

    I've run passmark a few times since updating and there are consistent improvements.

    The link in my sig is typical of the scores I was getting right after I updated to Ryzen, about ten days ago. Current scores for CPU are now ~3% higher (latest being 12835), 2d gfx ~10% better (latest 692), and 3d gfx ~2% improvement (latest 10407).

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  10. #25
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    Re: Microsoft Windows 10 Fall Creators Update arrives

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Jon View Post
    I've run passmark a few times since updating and there are consistent improvements.

    The link in my sig is typical of the scores I was getting right after I updated to Ryzen, about ten days ago. Current scores for CPU are now ~3% higher (latest being 12835), 2d gfx ~10% better (latest 692), and 3d gfx ~2% improvement (latest 10407).
    I have a locked IB Core i7 running at 3.5GHZ on average with a GTX1080.

    I need to do direct tests myself,but I had the Windows 10 Creator Update before my SSD died,and it didn't really do much for my FO4 framerates or stuttering in my large settlements. I run a few hundred mods and have huge settlements with dozens of NPCs and have increased spawn points over the whole map for NPCs.

    For a few months I was using a Win8.1 PRO SSD with the same drivers,same game version and saw virtually no change in performance or the performance profile. The game is old now so its not really getting any performance improvements.Upgraded to newer drivers and it did squat. Since the older SSD was smaller,put in another one,and that didn't do much even though it is faster.

    Upgraded to Win10 Fall Creators Update with the same Nvidia drivers,same mods,same everything,and the stuttering in settlements has more or less gone. Same game version too from yonks ago(NOT doing the Creation club update which was released recently).

    Plus I never tried the game mode before,but it actually adds a few FPS at the worst points.

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    From what I gather if you have a much higher end CPU the improvements are not really that much which would make sense.
    Looks like I was right on that part as GN tested some games:
    https://youtu.be/PMU-ZFDwJW8?t=89

    Running a higher end combo(GTX1080TI and Ryzen 1700) seems to not do much,but they also said many of their trusted users have noted improvements in a number of scenarios especially in frametimes and also with Vega56.

    Edit!!

    Also for modders this is very useful:

    https://www.neowin.net/news/windows-...allocation-bug

    In Windows 8, Microsoft changed how DirectX 9 reported the amount of available memory to games; while Windows 7 seemingly allowed a game to use the entirety of the available VRAM, Windows 8 limited games to exactly 4GB for no apparent reason. This behavior persisted in Windows 8.1 and Windows 10, making things worse for gamers who upgraded to Microsoft’s new operating systems.

    It’s an issue that may seem trivial to many, as most GPUs – unless on the high-end of the spectrum – come with 4GB or less of VRAM. However, the DirectX API allocates memory as a combination of RAM and VRAM, which means that those with less than 4GB of VRAM were also affected.

    As can be expected, this new limitation crippled the ability to mod titles like The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim for many gamers. Jesse Natalie, Senior Software Engineer in the Direct3D team at Microsoft, took notice of the issue on Reddit about four months ago, and promised of a solution; the fix was eventually pushed with build 16232 for Windows 10 Insiders, albeit being missing from its changelog. The Fall Creators Update introduces this fix to gamers on Windows 10.

    It turns out that although Windows 7 seemed to be functioning fine, it wasn't doing things quite right. In an attempt to fix the issue present in Windows 7 for the upcoming release of Windows 8, the Direct3D team made changes to the relevant Direct3D API, only to cause more problems, as Natalie explained to Neowin:

    “This API was available on Windows 7, however it did not behave reasonably in the face of GPUs with more than 4GB of VRAM. During the Windows 8 timeframe, we noticed the trend in memory would lead to an overflow of several 32bit values across the graphics API surface area, so there was a concerted effort to sanitize and clamp rather than allow overflow. The clamp for D3D9 was just applied too early, resulting in allocation failures instead of just clamped reporting.

    […]

    The API in question simply reports to the app an estimation of how much memory remains available to allocate. On Windows 7, when more than 4GB are available, this API will not report accurate information. For example, if 4.1GB of memory are available, the app will see 0.1GB available. […] On Windows 8 and newer, this API will only report 4GB. Up until the change in this Fall Creator’s [sic] Update, once the counter reports 0 you can expect future memory allocation requests to fail.”
    With Windows 10 Fall Creators Update, the Direct3D team was finally able to apply a proper fix to the problem, with the API now reporting a more accurate value for the available memory.

    As for whether this fix would come to Windows 8.1, Natalie told Neowin that it’s unlikely, and the best recourse for gamers affected by the issue would be to simply upgrade to Windows 10 Version 1709 – the Fall Creators Update, which began rolling out today.
    For modders,running Skyrim this is very important as the modded game can start to eat up VRAM.
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 20-10-2017 at 10:09 PM.

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    Re: Microsoft Windows 10 Fall Creators Update arrives



    CS:GO tested - chap used a test map and saw an improvement from 350FPS to 380FPS,although TBF that is plenty!!

    He linked in some other results where people with slower rigs,saw similar gains in the game.

    Edit!!

    Forza 7 stuttering is now gone:

    http://www.dsogaming.com/news/window...tering-issues/

    As we’ve reported in our PC Performance Analysis, Forza Motorsport 7 suffered from severe stuttering issues. Earlier yesterday, the Windows 10 Fall Creators update went live and to our surprise, Turn10’s racer is now completely stuttering-free on the PC.

    After more than an hour playing Forza Motorsport 7, we did not experience a single stutter. We don’t know what Microsoft has done, however the game stuttered like crazy prior to this update.

    We’ve tested the game on both NVIDIA’s and AMD’s GPUs, using the exact same drivers. And while we did not notice any framerate boost, our gaming experience was flawless. Thanks to the Windows 10 Fall Creators Update, we were able to unlock the framerate and retain really high framerates. Framepacing was great and there weren’t any stutters even after our extensive testing.

    We can confirm that Turn10 has not released any new update for the game, so this overall improvement is entirely thanks to the latest Windows 10 update. As such, we strongly suggest downloading it if you are planning to get this new racing game.

    We’ve also tested Forza Horizon 3 and we did not notice any stuttering issues in that open-world racing game too.

    It appears that all of Forza Motorsport 7’s PC issues have been resolved with the Windows 10 Fall Creators update. The game now runs silky smooth, there are no loading issues (previously the game could freeze while selecting a race) and there are no stuttering issues.

    Here is a screenshot of Forza Motorsport 7 after playing for an hour.
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 20-10-2017 at 10:03 PM.

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    Re: Microsoft Windows 10 Fall Creators Update arrives

    Any one else having trouble with the update.. i tried to install it yesterday it was stuck around 97% for over an hour then i went to bed woke up this morning and its still at 99%.. restarted computer ran it again and its hanging around 86%

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    Re: Microsoft Windows 10 Fall Creators Update arrives

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens Nest View Post
    Any one else having trouble with the update.. i tried to install it yesterday it was stuck around 97% for over an hour then i went to bed woke up this morning and its still at 99%.. restarted computer ran it again and its hanging around 86%
    First time I tried it (via settings/update), it downloaded but then failed to install...and didn't bother to tell me. I then went to the ms site (linked in article) and downloaded the update assistant exe, which did it no problems.

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    Re: Microsoft Windows 10 Fall Creators Update arrives

    A well known poster on OcUK forums decided to test the new update out(shankly1985). Their setup is as follows:

    i7 3770k @4.2ghz , RX Vega 64 - 16GB DDR 3 1866

    All Games I test will be 1440p Ultra, Minus any Blur effects.

    Hitman Absolutions - 2x MSAA
    Thief

    Before update,and no game mode.



    Game mode.



    Post-update. Game mode.



    Shadow of Mordor

    He mentioned when looking at the frame rate graph after the update the FPS seemed more consistent.

    Before update.



    Game mode.



    Post update. Game mode.



    It seems again it seems minimums are getting better.

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    Re: Microsoft Windows 10 Fall Creators Update arrives

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    It seems again it seems minimums are getting better.
    Excellent - far more useful than the other end of the scale.

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    Re: Microsoft Windows 10 Fall Creators Update arrives

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Jon View Post
    First time I tried it (via settings/update), it downloaded but then failed to install...and didn't bother to tell me. I then went to the ms site (linked in article) and downloaded the update assistant exe, which did it no problems.
    Yes i did it with the update assistant and its got stuck at 99% again.. left it on again all night same result..
    If i get a fix i will post it here.

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    Re: Microsoft Windows 10 Fall Creators Update arrives

    I made a custom ISO with updated intel AHCI/Raid drivers and added a few drivers in so it would go online straight away, clean installed the laptop without issue, I decided to let the games rig update via WU, what a disaster. Chrome can't connect to the internet, I had to reinstall the network drivers and the whole Os seems slow. I was planning to clean install it anyway but this was an excuse to throw crap on it as a test as it will get wiped within a week.

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