Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 17 to 32 of 52

Thread: Nvidia encourages retailers to look after gamers

  1. #17
    Senior Member watercooled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    10,955
    Thanks
    1,510
    Thanked
    957 times in 818 posts

    Re: Nvidia encourages retailers to look after gamers

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    Not sure output can. Crypto currencies are like a electricity eating cancer that make GPUs look like money printing machines. If more money printing machines are released on the market, what would stop people from buying them as well? If GPU production went up a magnitude I doubt it would help gamers, but it might lead to rolling blackouts from electricity used.
    It really is isn't it? The market just hurts everyone involved besides retailers - as others have said it's far too risky to substantially increase production like AMD did a few years ago and had to write-down stock. People don't seem to understand that the turnaround time from order to product for processors is measured in months - being able to accurately predict a staggeringly volatile market that far in advance is near-impossible.

    It's not great business for the fabs for the same reason - they have a finite capacity they need to fill and if/when the market collapses again, they're out of pocked. Fabs cost on the order of billions and take several years to build, so 'just make more' is not that simple. And I doubt even doubling production would make a jot of difference at the moment.

    I don't know what the environmental impact the fabrication causes, but the electricity demands are pretty catastrophic. And it's pretty painful to see so many carefully-engineered products dumped into a task which is entirely pointless by design. I just see the whole thing as horrid now. I can understand the argument for it being a good concept, but it's badly flawed in the real world when greed etc come into play.

    It's really not decentralised in reality, it's not remotely anonymous, it's far too volatile, transaction fees are laughably high, there's no financial protection e.g. chargebacks, the processing time is stupidly high, and it's grotesquely power-hungry - something like 215kWh for ONE transaction for BTC! So... what's the attraction of using it as an actual currency again?
    Last edited by watercooled; 22-01-2018 at 09:16 PM.

  2. Received thanks from:

    afiretruck (25-01-2018)

  3. #18
    Registered+
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    77
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked
    0 times in 0 posts

    Re: Nvidia encourages retailers to look after gamers

    only the dumb will blow that kind of unnecessary money on a video card. now if you really need one, then buy it, but most of the gamers dont need one that bad. to each their own!

  4. #19
    Senior Member watercooled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    10,955
    Thanks
    1,510
    Thanked
    957 times in 818 posts

    Re: Nvidia encourages retailers to look after gamers

    You're missing the point I think? The impact stretches right across the range from good value mid-range cards upwards - it's not just the silly-expensive top-end stuff.

  5. #20
    Senior Member Xlucine's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,677
    Thanks
    236
    Thanked
    135 times in 109 posts
    • Xlucine's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus TUF B450M-plus
      • CPU:
      • 3700X
      • Memory:
      • 16GB @ 3.2 Gt/s
      • Storage:
      • Crucial MX500 1TB, Crucial MX100 512GB, 2TB hard disk
      • Graphics card(s):
      • EVGA 980ti
      • PSU:
      • Seasonic S12G-550
      • Case:
      • Silverstone TJ08-E
      • Operating System:
      • W10 pro
      • Monitor(s):
      • Viewsonic vx3211-2k-mhd, Dell P2414H
      • Internet:
      • Plusnet 70 Mb/s

    Re: Nvidia encourages retailers to look after gamers

    Remind me, why are ASIC-resistant coins a good thing?

  6. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    432
    Thanks
    32
    Thanked
    15 times in 14 posts

    Re: Nvidia encourages retailers to look after gamers

    Quote Originally Posted by KN1GHT View Post
    Wow, I'm actually surprised and impressed that Nvidia would take this stance.

    I've got a little bit more respect for them now. I don't think this will change too much though.

    It's the idea that is what's impressing me.
    They don't care about you at all Knight.

    Think about it: nvidia say that miners come first - what happens?
    Miners don't care and just keep buying cards like they always have.
    Gamers go mad with rage at this fundamental betrayal and vow never to buy nvidia again.

    nvidia say that gamers come first - what happens?
    Miners don't care and just keep buying cards like they always have. No change there then.
    Some gamers say, "Hey, they're really *trying*. They love us. I have soooo much new found respect for nvidia."
    They have just earned more brand loyalty for if / when the crypto craze dies down.

    This brand loyalty is like being in love with Scarlett Johansson. It's not real and she doesn't care about you.
    nvidia's job, like that of any other company, is to make money.
    Being seen to butter up (certain) of their customers is just part of that... nothing more than good PR

  7. Received thanks from:

    MLyons (25-01-2018)

  8. #22
    Hellsteeth! Lord Midas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Amazingstoke
    Posts
    890
    Thanks
    16
    Thanked
    18 times in 17 posts
    • Lord Midas's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte Z390 AORUS ELITE
      • CPU:
      • Intel i7 9700k w/ Corsair H100i Hydro PRO RGB Liquid CPU Cooler
      • Memory:
      • Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4-3200 8GB x 2
      • Storage:
      • 1TB Samsung 970 Evo NVMe M.2 + 2TB Intel 660p NVMe M.2
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Asus RTX 2080 TURBO 8GB
      • PSU:
      • Corsair RM750x
      • Case:
      • Fractal Design Define R6
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 Pro
      • Monitor(s):
      • LG 34UM88 Ultrawide 34" - 3440x1440
      • Internet:
      • Virgin - Speakers: Pair of Adam T5V

    Re: Nvidia encourages retailers to look after gamers

    Looks like my new PC build is on hold. These kind of prices are prohibitive. It's not like my i5 3570k with RX480 isn't able to pleasantly play games anyway. I can wait.
    Kickstarters Pledged:
    Godus Stonehearth Rain World Satellite Reign


  9. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    My happy place
    Posts
    219
    Thanks
    69
    Thanked
    16 times in 14 posts
    • afiretruck's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte X399 Designare Ex
      • CPU:
      • AMD Threadripper 1900X
      • Memory:
      • Corsair 32GB 3200MHz
      • Storage:
      • 1x Intel 900p 280GB+ 3x 250GB NVMe SSDs
      • Graphics card(s):
      • RX Vega 64 x2
      • PSU:
      • Corsair RMi 850
      • Case:
      • Fractal Design Define R6
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 + Linux Mint 19
      • Monitor(s):
      • 4k something-or-other.

    Re: Nvidia encourages retailers to look after gamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Midas View Post
    Looks like my new PC build is on hold. These kind of prices are prohibitive. It's not like my i5 3570k with RX480 isn't able to pleasantly play games anyway. I can wait.
    Good call. That RX480 should be able to hang in there a few more years, anyway.

  10. #24
    root Member DanceswithUnix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    In the middle of a core dump
    Posts
    10,498
    Thanks
    547
    Thanked
    1,111 times in 948 posts
    • DanceswithUnix's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus X470-PRO
      • CPU:
      • 3700X
      • Memory:
      • 16GB 3200MHz
      • Storage:
      • 1TB Linux, 1TB Games (Win 10)
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Asus Strix RX Vega 56
      • PSU:
      • 650W Corsair TX
      • Case:
      • Antec 300
      • Operating System:
      • Fedora 30 + Win 10 Pro 64 (yuk)
      • Monitor(s):
      • Benq XL2730Z 1440p + Samsung 2343BW 2048x1152
      • Internet:
      • Zen 80Mb/20Mb VDSL

    Re: Nvidia encourages retailers to look after gamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Xlucine View Post
    Remind me, why are ASIC-resistant coins a good thing?
    Beats me, I would have thought mass production of something designed for the task was the correct way forward to "democratise" any technology.

  11. #25
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    3,003
    Thanks
    416
    Thanked
    382 times in 261 posts

    Re: Nvidia encourages retailers to look after gamers

    I'm only going on what I've read but apparently miners avoid dedicated ASIC's because there's little resale value in them so $ spent on them are lost forever versus reselling GPUs.

  12. #26
    Registered+
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    44
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked
    0 times in 0 posts

    Re: Nvidia encourages retailers to look after gamers

    And there was me waiting for prices to drop a little before investing in a new graphics card for gaming... Looks like I may have to wait a couple of more years now with prices the way they are. Surely this is going to kill off the market for graphics card makers with the crypto market the only driver for sales?!

  13. #27
    Cinnamon Roll Ozaron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Norfolk
    Posts
    562
    Thanks
    68
    Thanked
    31 times in 30 posts
    • Ozaron's system
      • Motherboard:
      • MSI X570 Unify
      • CPU:
      • Ryzen 3700X
      • Memory:
      • 32GB Patriot Blackout @ 3800 CL16
      • Storage:
      • Toshiba X300 4TB (2), Samsung 850 Evo 500GB
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Sapphire R9 Fury Nitro
      • PSU:
      • Seasonic M12-II 620w
      • Case:
      • Corsair Obsidian 500D
      • Operating System:
      • W10 Enterprise 64bit
      • Monitor(s):
      • BenQ GW2765HT
      • Internet:
      • 2.5 MB/s ↓ 0.86 MB/s ↑ ~20ms

    Re: Nvidia encourages retailers to look after gamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    I'm only going on what I've read but apparently miners avoid dedicated ASIC's because there's little resale value in them so $ spent on them are lost forever versus reselling GPUs.
    What sane human bean buys a GPU which has been forced into bitcoin slavery? It was my understanding they're only sold when newer, more effective solutions come along (not happening soon) or when they're near death. Or, I suppose, when the miner defaults and has their setup taken apart and sold.

  14. #28
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Redditch, United Kingdom
    Posts
    356
    Thanks
    7
    Thanked
    12 times in 8 posts

    Re: Nvidia encourages retailers to look after gamers

    Why do bitcoin miners need cards like 1050ti? Because surely if its just bitcoin peeps fault then mid/low range cards should have no or almost no impact, yet 1050ti price is higher than it was at release like year ago.

  15. #29
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    3,003
    Thanks
    416
    Thanked
    382 times in 261 posts

    Re: Nvidia encourages retailers to look after gamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozaron View Post
    What sane human bean buys a GPU which has been forced into bitcoin slavery? It was my understanding they're only sold when newer, more effective solutions come along (not happening soon) or when they're near death. Or, I suppose, when the miner defaults and has their setup taken apart and sold.
    People who want cheap graphics cards i guess, I've not looked but i suspect someone selling secondhand cards doesn't advertise the fact they've been used for mining.

    I'd consider buying a cheap secondhand card if it was half, or less, than current retail prices as I'm unaware how 24/7 mining even effects a card.....Time to go do some reading.

  16. #30
    root Member DanceswithUnix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    In the middle of a core dump
    Posts
    10,498
    Thanks
    547
    Thanked
    1,111 times in 948 posts
    • DanceswithUnix's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus X470-PRO
      • CPU:
      • 3700X
      • Memory:
      • 16GB 3200MHz
      • Storage:
      • 1TB Linux, 1TB Games (Win 10)
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Asus Strix RX Vega 56
      • PSU:
      • 650W Corsair TX
      • Case:
      • Antec 300
      • Operating System:
      • Fedora 30 + Win 10 Pro 64 (yuk)
      • Monitor(s):
      • Benq XL2730Z 1440p + Samsung 2343BW 2048x1152
      • Internet:
      • Zen 80Mb/20Mb VDSL

    Re: Nvidia encourages retailers to look after gamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    I'm only going on what I've read but apparently miners avoid dedicated ASIC's because there's little resale value in them so $ spent on them are lost forever versus reselling GPUs.
    Don't see how, you can only mine Bitcoin these days with a dedicated ASIC or you will be making a massive loss. If no-one used ASICs then using a GPU would still be viable.

    Quote Originally Posted by aniilv View Post
    Why do bitcoin miners need cards like 1050ti? Because surely if its just bitcoin peeps fault then mid/low range cards should have no or almost no impact, yet 1050ti price is higher than it was at release like year ago.
    It is down to work done per watt, and on that metric the lower end cards don't look all that bad. If you can't buy any Vega 56/64 cards then I guess they are just buying whatever they can lay hands on. You need 4GB of ram on the card though, so that sets a lower end of the range that is usable. However, if for the price of a few 1050ti cards you can buy a 1070 then you would buy a single 1070 and have room for expansion.

    Either that or people who need to buy a graphics card for graphics are finding that is the card they can afford because all the better cards are gone, so it might be the gamers scrabbling over scraps that pushes up the price of scraps.

  17. #31
    root Member DanceswithUnix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    In the middle of a core dump
    Posts
    10,498
    Thanks
    547
    Thanked
    1,111 times in 948 posts
    • DanceswithUnix's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus X470-PRO
      • CPU:
      • 3700X
      • Memory:
      • 16GB 3200MHz
      • Storage:
      • 1TB Linux, 1TB Games (Win 10)
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Asus Strix RX Vega 56
      • PSU:
      • 650W Corsair TX
      • Case:
      • Antec 300
      • Operating System:
      • Fedora 30 + Win 10 Pro 64 (yuk)
      • Monitor(s):
      • Benq XL2730Z 1440p + Samsung 2343BW 2048x1152
      • Internet:
      • Zen 80Mb/20Mb VDSL

    Re: Nvidia encourages retailers to look after gamers

    AIUI if everyone across the board doubles the size of their mining operation then the system adjusts the difficulty so that the work rate remains the same?

    If so, then the sane thing to do would be for all miners to just stop buying cards. But it is an arms race with people trying to increase their share of the "mining".

    That would make crypto currencies a sort of Prisoner's Dilemma, but with lots of prisoners to guarantee we all lose.

  18. #32
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    3,003
    Thanks
    416
    Thanked
    382 times in 261 posts

    Re: Nvidia encourages retailers to look after gamers

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    Don't see how, you can only mine Bitcoin these days with a dedicated ASIC or you will be making a massive loss. If no-one used ASICs then using a GPU would still be viable.
    Mining Bitcoin is all but dead due to it not being cost effective no matter what you use, i was talking about cryptocurrency in general and generally GPUs can be used for different types of cryptocurrency whereas ASIC's are (afaik) dedicated to specific currencies. There's also the warranty thing that i forgot to mention, GPUs come with them and ASICs don't.

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •