QOTW: Do you have a smart energy meter?

[Saracen]

..... If you can change the upload to every 8 hours, or even once a month, I'd have no issue with that.

You can. Well, not sure about 8 hours specifically, but there's a choice of 'granularity', ranging from about 1 minute, to monthly.

<CYNIC MODE>
There's a choice for now. There's no guarantee the choice will remain.

It would be simple to change the rules once the number of installations hits critical mass, and a simple regulation change, by the Secretary of State, via a Statutory Instrument, would very likely be enough.

And the cynic in me sees it coming. As, indeed, does it see the removal of consumer choice. IMHO, the only way it won't become mandatory eventually, is if vast numbers of us refuse. And even then, it's doubtful.

[=assassin=]

I don't have one yet and I'll be avoiding them for as long as it is possible. They sound very dodgy tbh!

[Phage]

This is a Government/EU target. In this country, the government is telling the energy suppliers to pay for it. That is to say, the consumer.
All the arguments as to energy companies motivations being to somehow oppress or rip you off, are false. However, incompetence in the data protection field across all companies and government is well known, and it is probable that there will be a leak at some point. Accordingly, it would be fair to say that there are data security/privacy issues, but it should be noted that these will be no greater than they are now, it is merely the granularity of the data that changes.

Looking into the future, smart meters should be able to increase consumer choice. Models are already being discussed to provide a meter that will obtain the lowest prices for you in the open market on a 15-minute interval. Breaking the ties to any energy supplier. (why mobiles don't already do this I don't know)

Currently there are vanishingly few perceivable benefits to the consumer. However the National grid will benefit from getting near real-time usage and micro generation data by geography.

[hellig]

we got one, and helped detect a fault on the oven. So its all good for us.

[Saracen]

This is a Government/EU target. In this country, the government is telling the energy suppliers to pay for it. That is to say, the consumer.
All the arguments as to energy companies motivations being to somehow oppress or rip you off, are false. However, incompetence in the data protection field across all companies and government is well known, and it is probable that there will be a leak at some point. Accordingly, it would be fair to say that there are data security/privacy issues, but it should be noted that these will be no greater than they are now, it is merely the granularity of the data that changes.

...

The granularity is part of the risk.

But as for "oppress or rip off" I'm not sure what assertions you mean, but my company certainly is trying to bully and/or con me into changing, by deceit. As I said, they've sent about 15 or 20 letters, over a year and a half, telling me that my current meter is "old, and needs replacing" when both my diary, and the "installed date" label on the meter show it to be just over a year old.

They could have been honest, and just offered an "upgrade". They could have come up with a better cover story, like "manufacturer fault" on the "old" one. Absolutely nowhere in any of those letters to they mention replacing my "old" meter with a new dumb meter, and the overwhelming implication is that I must have it replaced. Absolutely nowhere does it mention that the smart meter is optional, at my choice.

The entire way they're going about this stinks. If I wasn't already broadly averse to the notion, I would be after the pestering and deceitful letter war they've waged. If fact, I'm not longer broadly averse, by which I mean 60/40 against. I'm now at "hell will freeze over first".

If they can't be honest and up-front, I'm afraid I get to wonder what it is they're lying about.

[FatalSaviour]

I have one - it was very useful leading a lifestyle where I'm very rarely at home to simply just stop worrying about meter readings (I know it's a very minor issue, but another issue off the plate is always welcome!).

However, since I've recently switched energy suppliers, this has become entirely useless (I knew that this would likely happen before switching).

As a result, it's now become a paperweight for the moment (and it's not particularly good at that duty!)

[Elspuddy]

Yes mum has one but it keeps losing connection to the meeter

[MaQ]

I refused when they offered to fit one.

Having a smart meter could make it harder to switch gas and electricity providers, Apparently first
generation meters fitted in households are currently incompatible with the new national communications network.
Even though they say these meters are free
Every household will most likely pay for the new meter roll-out via their bills.

[peterb]

I refused when they offered to fit one.

Having a smart meter could make it harder to switch gas and electricity providers, Apparently first
generation meters fitted in households are currently incompatible with the new national communications network.
Even though they say these meters are free
Every household will most likely pay for the new meter roll-out via their bills.

It won’t make it harder to switch, but the company you switch too may not be able to access the smart meter (which some might regard as a good thing ).

[Phage]

Never ascribe to malice what is adequately explained by stupidity.
The technology is old,even if the meter itself isn't. The switch is not optional for the industry, and they have targets to hit, even when it doesn't make any sense.

[Saracen]

Never ascribe to malice what is adequately explained by stupidity.
The technology is old,even if the meter itself isn't. The switch is not optional for the industry, and they have targets to hit, even when it doesn't make any sense.

Even if they are stupid, being deceitful was a choice and when someone I'm dealing with chooses to be dishonest, it inevitably makes me question every word they say.

Yes, they have targets. What, 53m installs by 2020? That ludicrous target is in large part responsible for the over-stretched install teams, and rushed and/or inexperienced installers is part of why I decided "Hell, no".

When they lie to me, why should I trust anything they say?

Also, given that I've been metering myself for about 10 years, I fail to see any upside for me. That may well not be true for most users, but even without that, the whole program if it is for the advertised purposes, strikes me as barely beneficial.

But is it about what they tell us it's about? Or something else, like demand-shaped pricing? And as I said, when they use an obvious, blatant, outright lie, repeatedly, to sell me the idea, why should I believe anything else they say.

If someone is deceitful towards you, you're free to ascribe it to stupidity. I'm not sure that's a whole lot of an improvement, but .... hey, ho. Fair enough.

But when someone is demonstrably deceitful towards me, I ascribe it to them being deceitful, not either stupidity or malice.

And then, at best, an old principle kicks in .... fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

Sorry, utility company, but once you proved you aren't trustworthy, I take you as untrustworthy. And you did it twice - once by overt lie (age of meter and reason to change) and then again by inference and omission (implying I have to change, and omitting that it's my choice.

So i've chosen .... no smart meter.

[Saracen]

It won’t make it harder to switch, but the company you switch too may not be able to access the smart meter (which some might regard as a good thing ).

Well, it does make it harder to switch if it means you have to take another half-day off work for the new company to come and put in their incompatible SMETS-1 meter.

The only alternative is for the "smart" meter you have to revert to dumb. In which case, wny take time off now to let the present company install the first one, only to have it morph into a drooling idiot if you want to switch?


Years ago, I was at a meeying of a sales team and a building society board when salesman wanted an install follout to commence now (he wanted to make tge year's sales trip to Thailand).

Problem. Tne PCs were all running proprietary BIOSSs (due to custom hardware they had to support). And it was Beta. Final version was about 4-6 weeks off. Had we gone off half-cocked and started the roll-out, when that final code was released, every single PC would have had to be re-Bios'd. That meant by hand, and someone from my department (probably me) spending about 6 weeks going round every B.Soc branch, PC by PC. And, as they were front-office machines in amongst the cash areas, someone from the B. Soc IT team needed to be with me.

The sslemsn's Asian trip would have cost my company 6 weeks of my time, the B.Soc 6 weeks of one of their guy's time, and a lot of ill-will from the B.Soc. So I ratted him out, and warned the B. Soc board of the implications.

We waited 4 weeks, got the new BIOS, factory-upgraded the hardware and had a smooth rollout.

A month or so later, at a completely different B. Soc (well actually a high street bank), a different salesmen did a presentation ti a couple of directors and senior IT team and their management consultant just happened to have been at the previous B.Soc meeting when the saleman tried it on.

After the salesmen finished, the consultant looked directly at me, and asked "Anything to add to that, and issues or problems you foresee?"

"No, nothing. Everything is fine" I said. He nodded.

Honesty, or lack of it, cuts both ways. The sale to the bank went smoothly. Obviously, not just because I'd bern honest before. The deal was a good one. But had I not stepped in, and the previous B.Soc had been burned by the salesman, that management consultant would have knosn it. It just might have killed the bank bid. Which was orders of magnitude larger.


The moral of that little story, in case anyone's forgotten where it started, is .... don't start a full project roll-out until you have the right damn kit. And don't try to con the customer, because they won't forgive, and certainly won't trust you, if you get caughf lying.

[Millennium]

Cool story Saracen!
Is there any way to force your energy company to only install a new gen smart meter, i.e. one that has been upgraded to work across suppliers? That's the only one I'd consider personally. I don't often give my readings so it would save me some hassle.

[Phage]

Cool story Saracen!
Is there any way to force your energy company to only install a new gen smart meter, i.e. one that has been upgraded to work across suppliers? That's the only one I'd consider personally. I don't often give my readings so it would save me some hassle.

See my first post. Tell them you will only accept a SMETS2 meter

[lodore]

The original premise sounds good but the implementation is the issue.
being able to monitor daily usage and not getting estimated bills is good.
each energy company uses a different type so if you switched energy company they would need to install a new meter.
The data could be used to tailor the plan which on the surface sounds good but I suspect they are more likely to use it against you especially if use a lot of energy and want to haggle at the end of a contract.
I do not want a smart meter for the same reason I wouldn't want a black box in my car as for the above reason of the potential to be used against you.
If i want to monitor my energy usage I would want the purchase the system myself and not have it tied to the energy provider.
I feel that we need a more standardized system and if possible opensource.
I like technology but feel that a smart meter causes more issues than it solves.

[will2]

Like advice leading the the Referendum, there seems to be a dearth of accurate and useful data on which consumers can decide if it benefits them. I read cost of smart-metering per house around £460 - but don't know if one-off, or over a period. From all I have read, the energy companies have wasted millions on in-efficient designs incompatible with the fact people have been able to switch suppliers for many years, and using expensive 3G mobile networks rather than low-cost IoT type networks. I gather the only benefit to consumers is, using the energy meter readings to learn how alter their usage profile, so using less energy. But I have been a cost-conscious and careful energy user for years (measuring consumption of each appliance with plug-in power meters), so unlikely to make much additional saving using the utility company's meter, more likely this costly change will lose me money. I think only incentive for me to want a "smart meter" is if legislation requires Utility companies to transparently share 50:50 "the savings' with the customer, regardless of whether the customer reduces consumption after meter installation.